Which 8 Ball rules for TAR 28?

[DogsPlayingPool]

The thing about this debate is that it really only makes a difference in one situation - where the breaker makes one or more balls of only one suit.

Take what you make does not completely preclude the table from being open after the break as it is on a dry break or if both suits drop on the snap. In other words, the only time the rule makes any difference is when it penalizes the shooter for being successful, i.e. making a ball on the break.

If the breaker snaps dry, the incoming player has an open table. OK, fair enough, the breaker was unsuccessful in keeping his inning going by making a ball and is duly penalized. But if the incoming player gets an open table on a dry break it seems unfair that the breaker does not enjoy the same benefit when he successfully pockets something on the snap.

 

[Celtic]

You don't really understand my point. Corey asked for this rule for a reason. I believe it is because he thinks he is a better player than John with a better overall strategy. Why do you think he would ask for this if he thought it would penalize him in some way?

Come on man, the most well known rack mechanic and the guy who studies breaking racks to a degree that no other pro dreams of doing asks for a breaking rule that limits what can be shot after the break and you think that it is just "after break" strategy that he did that for?

Corey is the type of guy that would spend 2 weeks prior to the match breaking 1500 racks tracking where balls move when you strike the rack with a certain speed from a certain point into a certain ball. He would get an idea of which balls in the rack can actually be "played". As a rack your own game he would figure out how to pattern the rack with the stripes and solids to get the balls to move where he wants them to move, getting the stripes to move to positive positions on the table and getting the solids to move to the rails near blocked pockets, all the while playing the pot on the single stripe he is aiming at making. It might be the headball cut-break into the side, it might be the headball back into a corner like the 10-ball break, it might be a wing ball, but whatever it is Corey would try to figure it out because THAT IS WHAT HE DOES.

You think it is just after break strategy? You think Corey was just going to come into this match hard breaking and taking what the table gave him and work from there? Give your head a shake man, of course he was not thinking of doing that. Corey was going to get an advantage on the break itself and he was going to work to get better chances after his breaks then John gets after his.

With open off the break both will be breaking hard and trying to get open racks with a true option on which balls to shoot, there will be no gimmicky racking and chippy breaking aimed at uneven racks when looking at stripes vs solids, which is what there was going to be with "take what you make".

Plus your comment on the USBTC is moot. This is going to be played on a way bigger table with old cloth and way smaller pockets that players like SVB, Alex, Busta, Oscar D, Raj Hundal, and many other pros have shown to be pretty freaking different from a normal 9-ball table let alone a freaking bar box.

 

[donny mills]

I haven't read any of this except for the last page in case this has already been said. Make it take it requires more skill period. Cream rises to the top in that format. I bet Corey doesn't soft break no matter what the rule ends up being.

 

[Rubyron]

Does an 8 on the break count as a win?

 

[CreeDo]

I haven't read any of this except for the last page in case this has already been said. Make it take it requires more skill period. Cream rises to the top in that format. I bet Corey doesn't soft break no matter what the rule ends up being.

Being randomly forced to shoot a tough ball, doesn't mean skill has been added to the game. It means luck has been added to the game and the player hopes his skill is enough to deal with the bad roll.

If you had someone write the numbers 1-15 on a piece of paper and throw them in a hat, then someone blindly draws one of those numbers and says "ok, now you must shoot that ball, and if you miss you lose", would that be a skilled game?

Now imagine throwing out half the pieces of paper. It's kinda like that.

 

[JCIN]

Poll results are 2:1 for open after the break. So it is written so shall it be done.......

When Corey complains I am blaming the internet.

 

[JCIN]

Does an 8 on the break count as a win?

No. Can not win or lose on the break.

 

[lukemindish]

I think it is much more challenging taking what you make on the break. For pros they will make a ball on every break and basically run out from there.

 

[mikeyfrost]

This isn't a rack mechanic rule. It's a rule to benefit the better player. If it's harder to get out, the better player is gonna get there more often.

I think some people don't realize how good of a rule it is. Now I hope someone runs the set out.

 

[justadub]

I still find it very interesting that the two pro's who commented in this thread stated "take what you make" would require more skill, yet all the rest want it the other way.

I'll be curious what Corey (and John) say about it.

 

[nine_ball6970]

Being randomly forced to shoot a tough ball, doesn't mean skill has been added to the game. It means luck has been added to the game and the player hopes his skill is enough to deal with the bad roll.

If you had someone write the numbers 1-15 on a piece of paper and throw them in a hat, then someone blindly draws one of those numbers and says "ok, now you must shoot that ball, and if you miss you lose", would that be a skilled game?

Now imagine throwing out half the pieces of paper. It's kinda like that.

Your analogy is funny to me. First off you do not have only one ball to shoot at after the break. You have six balls to shoot at if you only make one stripe or solid. Also if you miss a ball you do not automatically lose. Maybe they should change the rules of 9 ball to if you dont have an open shot at the lowest ball after the break then you should be allowed to shoot any ball until you have a good shot on the lowest ball on the table. The person breaking shouldn't be "penalized" for not having an open shot after a successful break in 9 ball right? You deal with what you are left with and if you have to push out so be it. That is the equivalent to playing safe or tying something up in 8 ball if you dont have an open shot or an easy out. I believe everyone who hates take what you make has never played even a set under those rules and just wants to see pros get out from everywhere all the time. It is probably the same group of people who say one pocket is slow and boring. I believe if it is open after the break and winner breaks then whoever gets the first break will win the set.

 

[JCIN]

I still find it very interesting that the two pro's who commented in this thread stated "take what you make" would require more skill, yet all the rest want it the other way.

I'll be curious what Corey (and John) say about it.

I see it both ways. I dont see it making a big difference either way other than the pace of the match. No one has ever played 8 Ball on this table so we'll just see what happens. The cloth is broken now and it is borderline too tough almost.

When prospective customers take the time to vote 2:1 on something its not real hard to figure out what the best choice is at the moment for someone trying to sell a product.

I have had players give me long diatribes about "How you should play XYZ game." To which I reply "You can go play however you want but if you actually want people to pay to watch you play there must be some consideration for what THEY want."

Thats all I'm trying to do....ask the people who pay the bills what they want to see.

 

[Hungarian]

I still find it very interesting that the two pro's who commented in this thread stated "take what you make" would require more skill, yet all the rest want it the other way.

I'll be curious what Corey (and John) say about it.

Dr.OnePocket and Celtic both voted for open.

Which two pros are you talking about?

 

[Hungarian]

Corey asked for this rule for a reason. I believe it is because he thinks he is a better player than John with a better overall strategy.QUOTE]

Trust me, Corey doesn't think he is the better player over John to the point where he is stealing with one set of rules over the other. It's a even match but if you think about it John is equal to or better than Corey on tough shot making ability. Either player could win by either set of rules. He wants tough rules so that who ever wins has earned it.

Open after the break imo is the wrong way to go and I think it will make a significant difference

Sometimes people don't know what they don't know.

But that's OK if you voted as long as you pay.

I can feel Justin's pain.

I just hope everyone who voted is buying the stream.

And I hope SC5 hasn't voted like 75 times...

 

[nine_ball6970]

Dr.OnePocket and Celtic both voted for open.

Which two pros are you talking about?

I haven't read any of this except for the last page in case this has already been said. Make it take it requires more skill period. Cream rises to the top in that format. I bet Corey doesn't soft break no matter what the rule ends up being.

There is one. Not sure who the other one is.

 

[Celtic]

Poll results are 2:1 for open after the break. So it is written so shall it be done.......

When Corey complains I am blaming the internet.

Blame the fans. More of us want to pay to watch him play it this way.

You have the right table for this IMO, I don't think you need that extra rule to stop endless runouts. As you said this thing has not even been reclothed from the Busta/Archer match, this thing should be playing tight and a little slow and it is going to be a tough 8-ball test still regardless of open after the break.

If Corey and John dominate the game on that table and run out everything I am going to be not only shocked but also poorer as I am putting up a prop bet on the Action Room that less then 50% of the games won in the 8-ball will be B&R's.

 

[Celtic]

Now I hope someone runs the set out.

You can bet on anything more then 50% of the match being B&R's by either player!

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

There is one. Not sure who the other one is.

Perhaps the other was Billy Incardona (wincardona).

 

[Hungarian]

There is one. Not sure who the other one is.

Mr. Mills ain't a pro. He's a working man...lol

 

[LucasBilliards]

Did the people that are saying it's gonna be a runout contest not see the stats someone posted earlier from the IPT? Neither one of these guys were running out more than 30% of the time. On a much easier table. With open after the break. Numbers don't lie. It'll be a good match and the better player will win, not the first one to step to the table. I'll bet anyone of you my car and $1000 that neither player runs out the set. That's just ridiculous. Any takers?