just cheating???

If it was me, I'd be looking down table at the one ball since the six ball is close to it and in play for the foul. I probably wouldn't have seen the ten ball move as it was 45 degrees from where I'm looking at the one ball.

The rules we play by locally are if the blocking ball moves at all, it's a foul whether the cue ball hit it or the cue.

The end of the story is there is one person that knows he moved the ten ball and that's Ryan.

The no foul happened unless the opposing player calls it or the anything to win attitude shows alot about a person's personal integrity.

They say you learn something everyday of your life. What I learned is if I ever play this guy, I won't turn my back to the table while he's shooting.

There is no way he didn't see the 10 ball move.

Stones
 
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Stones said:
If it was me, I'd be looking down table at the one ball since the six ball is close to it and in play for the foul. I probably wouldn't have seen the ten ball move as it was 45 degrees from where I'm looking at the one ball.

The rules we play by locally are if the blocking ball moves at all, it's a foul whether the cue ball hit it or the cue.

The end of the story is there is one person that knows he moved the ten ball and that's Ryan.

The no foul happened unless the opposing player calls it or the anything to win attitude shows alot about a person's personal integrity.

They say you learn something everyday of your life. What I learned is if I ever play this guy, I won't turn my back to the table while he's shooting.

Stones
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I totally agree with you. If I foul I call it on myself. If I had to cheat to win. The victory would mean nothing. At the end of the day I have to live with my actions. If I ever got to where I would do anything to win. I'd quit.
 
wow. i cant really see anybody arguing in favor of mccreesh here. clearly a foul, caught on tape, he continued shooting.
love the way alvin talks about what a great representative of pool mccreesh is, a minute later.
 
Oscar showed good sportsmenship..if he saw the shot,,and I'm sure he did,,I wounldn't be surprised to see a ref involved if they play again.
I think all balls should be live in all tournament play,never mind tightening
the pockets.

Imo..Ryan hit the ten with the cue ball..but there was no ref.
 
seven_7days said:
... Anyway, i'm not so sure that by not calling a foul on yourself qualifies as cheating.
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Some people think of it as cheating and others think of it as a normal part of the game. My feeling is that in an unrefereed match both players are responsible for ensuring that all the rules are enforced correctly.
 
Pool World

Oscar played it very smart,,,,, I am sure he realized without a director there to call the hit Ryan is staying at the table. So why blow it up and screw with your emotions...smart play by Oscar.
As far as cheating just look around in your local room or wherever you venture and look at the players ( Not only players also the PLAYAS ) and count how many you think or know would cheat for $10 and the ticket. Or try and pull some sort of move on or off the table.

Pool,,,,The most beautiful game in the world surrounded by quite a bit of horrible scenery. I still love it
 
I was thinking it's a foul even if he did hit the 10 with his stick. while jumping a ball,it changes the normal ruling,,like a mis cue is a foul while jumping.
But it really makes no difference because it looked to me as the cue hit it.

I wouldn't call it cheating though. The opponent is suppose to be watching and say something if he thinks there is a foul.
On the other hand the guy shooting should no better than to continue shooting,,no matter. Not cheating though.

Everyone has taken a shot that was questionable,,,it's not a good feeling,but it happens.
 
The shot downtable that he made looked close too. This would have been a good time to have the TD watch the hit.
 
The local tournies down here in florida often play if you are jacking up over a ball and it moves in the process of shooting its a foul. That rule is to prevent people pulling moves where they want to hit draw on the ball so on the backstroke they pull the blocking ball back and fire as the cueball gets exposed. I think its a good rule.

Looking at the video again, it sure looks like a foul. McCreesh is blocked by the side of the ball, not a full ball and the direction the ball moves and speed it moves, it sure looked like the cueball clipped it. Downtable, the way the 6 moves, its clearly a good hit there.
 
highkarate said:
i'm not trying to berate the guy, but cmon man. i like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but from what i've heard from my friends in upstate new york, this is basically typical of this guy. great player and best of luck to him in the future, but how can you not notice this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqj-9E5icCc&feature=g-all-u

27:50
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Oscar is a true sportsman. the rule in that tour is if you dont call a ref to call the foul, then No Foul occourred...If Oscar thought that a close call would come into play then he would have asked for a ref...I give Oscar a lot of credit for not making a big deal out of it. The shot was too close to call on video unless slow motion and a zoom was used...Oscar you rock..
 
Bob Jewett said:
Some people think of it as cheating and others think of it as a normal part of the game. My feeling is that in an unrefereed match both players are responsible for ensuring that all the rules are enforced correctly.
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Bob, I'm curious about your stance... and that's a little ambiguous.

'Both players are responsible' could be interpreted two ways:

"I could call it, but it's the job of the guy in the chair to either call it or to get a ref beforehand. If he doesn't, that's his fault, and I can keep shooting even though I know I fouled".

OR

"It's not just up to the guy in the chair to call fouls. A shooter may call a foul on himself. And if I foul on my own shot, that's exactly what I ought to do."

-------

"Cheating" may not be the right word, because cheating implies intent to break the rules.

If you don't intend to break the rules, but do so accidentally... then choose not to call a foul on yourself... is that on the same level as a guy who literally 'cheats' (moves the balls when you're not looking, calls a foul when he knows it didn't happen, intentionally marks the score wrong)?

IMO no, based on the fact that I've been tempted to not call fouls on myself, but I've never been tempted to cheat on purpose like move a ball when the other guy isn't looking. The mindset is a bit different. Ironically, the guys who are guilty of the lesser evil (accidental foul) probably feel guiltier than the guy who is willing to just blatantly deceive you to win.
 
.....................................................

Looked at that quite a few more times. His stick hit the ten well after the CB was in the air. That wassa good hit.

What makes it difficult to see is that the camera changes angle the instant b-4 he shoots.
 
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If the cue ball grazed the ten, it would have deflected off toward the rail and he would have missed the one, as he was not jumping the ten full. It seems obvious, but I guess not.
 
spindoctor9 said:
If the cue ball grazed the ten, it would have deflected off toward the rail and he would have missed the one, as he was not jumping the ten full. It seems obvious, but I guess not.
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Exactly what I was thinking ... what are the chances that he hit the 10 with the cue ball and it bounced off line, yet still managed to miss the 6 ball and hit the 1 perfectly?

Best part of the video is at 13:30, when someone in the chat room got the commentator to ask on air if Phil McKraken was playing.
 
I haven't viewed the clip so don't know if this is applicable to this case, but it's not always easy to tell if you've fouled or not when you're down on the shot. Something doesn't seem quite right, but you're not sure what - calling a foul in such circumstances is a difficult moral dilemma.
 
CreeDo said:
Bob, I'm curious about your stance... and that's a little ambiguous.

'Both players are responsible' could be interpreted two ways:

"I could call it, but it's the job of the guy in the chair to either call it or to get a ref beforehand. If he doesn't, that's his fault, and I can keep shooting even though I know I fouled".

OR

"It's not just up to the guy in the chair to call fouls. A shooter may call a foul on himself. And if I foul on my own shot, that's exactly what I ought to do." ...
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If either player is aware that a foul happened or likely happened, they should point it out to their opponent. If the shooter in the linked video noticed that the 10 ball moved on the shot -- do you think he noticed? -- it is his responsibility to point out that fact to his opponent so the opponent can choose whether to put the ball back or not. That much is independent of whether the ten was moved by a foul.

There seems to have been no discussion, so I'm assuming that the shooter did not notify the seated player of the movement.

If either player is aware that some rule is not being observed properly, whether it is the shooter or the seated player, and regardless of whether it helps or hurts either player, they should speak up.

I realize that this is not the way a lot of players play or the attitude they bring to the table.
 
All ball foul?

If they were playing all balls foul then that looks foulish. If not-something moved the 10.
 
seven_7days said:
wow.
I just literally watched this particular match a few hours ago and was wondering "Wft happened there? Why didn't anybody catch that?"

Anyway, i'm not so sure that by not calling a foul on yourself qualifies as cheating.
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Have you ever watched golf? If you KNOW & you are the only human being alive that even suspects it AND you do NOT call it on yourself then you cheated. You cheated your oponent. You cheated the field. You cheated the game. And...most important of all you cheated yourself.

All that being said, I have not watch what happened & I do not know the circumstances & I am NOT calling anyone a cheat. I am merely responding to your doubt.
 
spindoctor9 said:
If the cue ball grazed the ten, it would have deflected off toward the rail and he would have missed the one, as he was not jumping the ten full. It seems obvious, but I guess not.
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Like I mentioned earlier, I've watched the shot many times over.

...looked closely at cue ball ONLY.
...looked closely at Ryan's stick ONLY.

The cue ball grazes the top of ten on the way UP.
 
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