You're overlooking the holidays where play was never scheduled. All the players are being paid in full.
If you want to complain, then complain. But at least do it about an issue where you're properly educated.
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Are The Bonus Ball Players Under Contract?
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
You're overlooking the holidays where play was never scheduled. All the players are being paid in full.
If you want to complain, then complain. But at least do it about an issue where you're properly educated.
My statement was, as far as I can tell, true. A delay from Nov. 29 to Jan. 3 is 5 weeks. They are receiving 3 weeks' pay during that period. I said no more than that.
On the last schedule I saw, they were to play for 4 weeks prior to Christmas.
Its seems in this case I have more of a clue that you do my friend. here is nothing in my assesment that is not a valid point. You may have some interest in defending them and as so can look at this venture through rose colored glasses but for the most part people here are obviously seeing whats going on. Inspectors can be brutal but have they been brutal for almost a year??? Also what is the excuse for not telling the players until they got there? If you are in the know you should be able to easy answer these questions. Somehow I feel that you are not as much in the know as you think you are. Stoip defending things that are not defenable. If you really think that anyone including the players do not have concerns with the reliability of this venture you are kidding yourself. Take a step back and look at it without your bullt in bias and I think that you will realize that yopu are the one who should "STFU"
Players are paid per week of play. There are 22 weeks of play in the season, and thus 22 pay days. Mosconi cup was a conflict, so 2 weeks were broken up into 3 weeks to schedule around it. As such, there were only 3 paid weeks scheduled during the new delay.
The players are happy and being paid. Yet for some reason people who have nothing invested still complain.
If you want to comment on the delay, lack of organization, or simply don't like the game, then fine. But complaining about free money in an industry where no one ever gets paid seems a little petty.
PS. Not picking on you AtLarge, but rather at the general reception to the delay.
Yes this is a great point from the "player perspective." They deserve this "free money" and I'm glad they are getting it.
However, word from Vegas is this is some top secret military stuff and nobody is coming with real info and facts. Some of the players don't even know the rules.
I sure hope these players manage that bankroll while in Sin City waiting to play. LMAO
We have followed the letter of the law to the rule and as Fatboy states...it has been insane. Nevertheless, it's a construction delay that is out of Larry's hands! The players respect that he chose to give them some Christmas money. Sure, it is disappointing as hell for Larry to have to postpone after believing that all was perfect in a imperfect world. Like I said before, our professional football team has a new arena being built and it is now a year delayed and a few million over budget.
I listen to Mark and Justin cry time and time again on the pod casts about the sad state of the industry but at least Larry is actually trying to do something for the professionals! I say the same thing as them and Justin is ready to crucify me. I call a spade a spade. We need a professional league that does not ask to take $500 out of everyone's pocket and then letting them to play. Forget the game (which plays absolutely fantastic I might add) forget the construction delays, this is all about treating the professional players with the respect due to them.
Trust me, if the players would have begged Larry not to play the game of Bonus Ball, Larry would not be playing Bonus Ball. The real deal here is that Bonus Ball is the game they want to play, at least the majority of them. There are probably a few pretenders out there but they are quickly going to learn that this is a shot makers game, a thinkers game, the men will weed out the boys!
As far as the statement some players don't know the rules...how can you call yourself a professional and come to camp not knowing the rules? If this is true then this delay is heaven sent! Players like Appleton, Archer, Morris and Deuel, just to mention a few, that do know the rules will eat you alive! When I go to a new race track, you better believe I know the rules and play by those rules. It's called pride and professionalism.
I listen to Mark and Justin cry time and time again on the pod casts about the sad state of the industry but at least Larry is actually trying to do something for the professionals! I say the same thing as them and Justin is ready to crucify me. I call a spade a spade. We need a professional league that does not ask to take $500 out of everyone's pocket and then letting them to play. Forget the game (which plays absolutely fantastic I might add) forget the construction delays, this is all about treating the professional players with the respect due to them.
Trust me, if the players would have begged Larry not to play the game of Bonus Ball, Larry would not be playing Bonus Ball. The real deal here is that Bonus Ball is the game they want to play, at least the majority of them. There are probably a few pretenders out there but they are quickly going to learn that this is a shot makers game, a thinkers game, the men will weed out the boys!
As far as the statement some players don't know the rules...how can you call yourself a professional and come to camp not knowing the rules? If this is true then this delay is heaven sent! Players like Appleton, Archer, Morris and Deuel, just to mention a few, that do know the rules will eat you alive! When I go to a new race track, you better believe I know the rules and play by those rules. It's called pride and professionalism.
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Which is exactly why all the players were still flown into Vegas this week regardless of the delay.
Everyone can speculate and gossip, but this isn't rocket science. It's a construction delay, and theyre using the time to run a boot camp. Everyone gets paid regardless.
I'm in the same boat as the players. My crew gets paid regardless, and we wait.
That's really all there is to it.
The several players I've talked to over the past year have been very excited about the game & tried to explain it to me as well; I think I have it now after watching some of the matches! One player in particular was hoping & hoping to get picked for a team & didn't really think he was going to be but he was picked 
.
Delays happen with many different things being the cause such as construction, permits, & inspectors; it's not the fault of the people who are getting the blame when things beyond their control happen.
I love the fact that the players are getting paid through the delay. As long as they're happy & not complaining that's all that really matters; people can say whatever they want.
Anyway, just my two cents...
. Delays happen with many different things being the cause such as construction, permits, & inspectors; it's not the fault of the people who are getting the blame when things beyond their control happen.
I love the fact that the players are getting paid through the delay. As long as they're happy & not complaining that's all that really matters; people can say whatever they want.
Anyway, just my two cents...
Why not put on a bonus ball tournament so that some of us amateurs can play with all the big name pros. Make it a decent entry and add a 100k and hold it at a casino or nice hotel. That would certainly be fun for me.
This is great news to hear for you. I hope you all have success. You must understand that with great success comes great criticisms. Unfortunately, our sport has many black eyes and bruises, which is why people on the forums are going to question this til the end. It is sad, but just the way things are after one failed attempt after another at promoting the game into a sport on a professional level. Good Luck!! :thumbup:
Read all the posts. Great game, get free money, dont know when its going to start because of construction and had to fly players in to get the rules figured out. Did I miss anything ? Almost forgot lots of the best players in the world not playing. Good Luck
I understand -- to schedule around the Mosconi Cup, each team was going to play 3 matches over the 4-week period prior to Christmas and be paid 3 times. So no paydays are missed. Actually, I guess 3 paydays are being added, as I imagine they'll still be paid for all the matches starting Jan. 3, right?
Exactly. It's 3 weeks additional to the scheduled 22. Plus playoffs.
And sorry if I came off aggressive earlier. I'm just frustrated with my inability to understand why this delay is such a big deal.
All the ppv on earth won't begin with to cover operational expenses. IPT maaay have hit 1k in Reno...if not, it was 900s.... and that was with the players playing for a $3M purse (with everyone THINKING they'd be paid). So I totally agree with your assessment.
The path to league revenue will only be paved if it's on TV AND it's successful on tv. I've asked some real good players what they thought of Bonus Ball and they didn't know what I was talking about. That means most league players don't know and most outside of azb don't know. Making them know will cost a good bit.
You can't sell enough merchandise to offset either. That will only come after a few successful tv seasons.
I'm hoping the tv thing is locked up already as I want this to fly. I hope the BB owners spread their cash out thinner and don't front load things like KT did.
Please don't flame me for saying the above... I want it to succeed. Paying players full salary (and not expenses and a stipend) during a delay makes no sense to me. You're giving players a free ride... let them grind it out a hair and maybe put 1/2 the value of their salaries in a invitational and let them play for it. Makes them happy and saves you 5 figs.
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Exactly. It's 3 weeks additional to the scheduled 22. Plus playoffs.
And sorry if I came off aggressive earlier. I'm just frustrated with my inability to understand why this delay is such a big deal.
The delay isn't a big deal and a huge majority want you to succeed. The big deal is reading about how BB is bleeding cash with no revenue yet.
Prob should setup phantom stock for players and give them a play in the success and some "grind" before money is made.
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Bonus Ball
Barry,
I agree that the state of pool is weak. It is pretty obvious.
I agree that Larry is trying to do something for pool.
But your making it sound like you guys are the only ones doing something for the pool players. How about the $89,000 that CSI is adding in the 3 US Open events in July, the US Bar Table and the Jay Swanson 9-ball?? Not counting the approximate $100,000 we give to our amateur players.
Here is the only thing I was trying to call attention to: THERE HAD TO BE NOTICE THAT THE STARTING DATE WAS GOING TO BE POSTPONED.
Look, I have built a lot of things in my life. And Fatboy is right - las Vegas has a very tough building code and they make life terrible. But it must have been obvious that the nov. 29th date was not going to be met.
Barry states that he is 'treating professional players with the repect due to them'. Does he realize that TAR has danced around Bonus Ball schedules for several months? This has cost the 'players' up to $12,000 in their pockets. And a lot of unnecessary downtime for TAR.
All i am asking for is some consideration. I have voiced this concern to other promoters in the past. When any event changes dates, it basically costs the pool players 2 opportunities to have other events. That means money to the pool players and their fans.
Everybody is supposed to be on the same team. Whether Bonus Ball succeeds or not, the standard games will continue and there will be players and there will be promoters. We all need to treat each other with respect because that will help the game.
This is not crying- this is trying to keep a game from being further fractured.
I am not talking about fiascos like payment at the US Open 9-Ball - I am only referring to honorable, professional promoters that do what they say they will do.
Don't you agree?
Mark Grifin
Barry,
I agree that the state of pool is weak. It is pretty obvious.
I agree that Larry is trying to do something for pool.
But your making it sound like you guys are the only ones doing something for the pool players. How about the $89,000 that CSI is adding in the 3 US Open events in July, the US Bar Table and the Jay Swanson 9-ball?? Not counting the approximate $100,000 we give to our amateur players.
Here is the only thing I was trying to call attention to: THERE HAD TO BE NOTICE THAT THE STARTING DATE WAS GOING TO BE POSTPONED.
Look, I have built a lot of things in my life. And Fatboy is right - las Vegas has a very tough building code and they make life terrible. But it must have been obvious that the nov. 29th date was not going to be met.
Barry states that he is 'treating professional players with the repect due to them'. Does he realize that TAR has danced around Bonus Ball schedules for several months? This has cost the 'players' up to $12,000 in their pockets. And a lot of unnecessary downtime for TAR.
All i am asking for is some consideration. I have voiced this concern to other promoters in the past. When any event changes dates, it basically costs the pool players 2 opportunities to have other events. That means money to the pool players and their fans.
Everybody is supposed to be on the same team. Whether Bonus Ball succeeds or not, the standard games will continue and there will be players and there will be promoters. We all need to treat each other with respect because that will help the game.
This is not crying- this is trying to keep a game from being further fractured.
I am not talking about fiascos like payment at the US Open 9-Ball - I am only referring to honorable, professional promoters that do what they say they will do.
Don't you agree?
Mark Grifin
Some of the players RELOCATED to vegas based on the contract start date and have rental obligations!!!
Contractually and ethically the Bonus Ball corporation is obligated to pay!
So, all this talk about a "Free Ride For The Players" is really unfair and inaccurate!!!
The players turned down other offers! I am sure Archer had to hire someone to look after his pool room during the time he is away! That cost him money and is a expense he would not have if he did not have this bonus ball obligation!
In all fairness of the criticism, The delay is over ONE YEAR and not 5 weeks as some would like you to believe based on my read!
Kd
Contractually and ethically the Bonus Ball corporation is obligated to pay!
So, all this talk about a "Free Ride For The Players" is really unfair and inaccurate!!!
The players turned down other offers! I am sure Archer had to hire someone to look after his pool room during the time he is away! That cost him money and is a expense he would not have if he did not have this bonus ball obligation!
In all fairness of the criticism, The delay is over ONE YEAR and not 5 weeks as some would like you to believe based on my read!
Kd
I think the players are very happy, the ones I have seen so far were smiling from ear to ear because they are getting 3 more weeks worth of money and they just had to come here and hang out, those 3 weeks add up to well over $100,000. I like that Bonus Ball is thinking long term and doing the right thing for the players because that is what is important. The players have been kicked around for a long time, this is a great opportunity and if you love pool and the top players then its something to be supported.
These players need to be able to support themselves and their families with a paycheck and not going out there gambling at a tournament with $2000 worth of expenses hoping to finish in the top 3 to make anything. There is enough money in pool to support the pro players but that money is not reaching them.
Fatboy his the nail on the head when it comes to Vegas and the construction delays are beyond Larry's control but he showed his integrity and character by playing the players for the down time and showing that this is the real deal and serious. I think postponing it and telling the players not to come out earlier would have been a bad move as the players were planning on working at this time and making money.
These players need to be able to support themselves and their families with a paycheck and not going out there gambling at a tournament with $2000 worth of expenses hoping to finish in the top 3 to make anything. There is enough money in pool to support the pro players but that money is not reaching them.
Fatboy his the nail on the head when it comes to Vegas and the construction delays are beyond Larry's control but he showed his integrity and character by playing the players for the down time and showing that this is the real deal and serious. I think postponing it and telling the players not to come out earlier would have been a bad move as the players were planning on working at this time and making money.