So is there footage of the famous 1990's Challenge of Champions dumping scandal?

[JB Cases]

Well what would a thread be if I didn't take the contrary position...
?

You evidence isn't evidence! Perhaps pool would be smaller for that group, if there was no betting? Not a sermon, just a thought.

I understand and that's a good point. But, it's still a clear example of pool NOT getting very popular even with bookies taking bets on tournaments.

We can argue that pool MIGHT be smaller in England without betting but we can go back and look at what it was without the betting, # of events and players and purses, and look at it now and I don't think it's that much better.

That said I am just guessing because I haven't actually collected any data.

We need to face facts, pool is and always will be a fringe sport. Only one time in the history of the world was it front page news and that was before the advent of baseball, basketball, football, and soccer became huge professional behemoths.

 

[kvinbrwr]

For the record, Accustats doesn't have any Challenge of Champions videos. So I guess it's strictly home recordings from ESPN.

This is what's great about AZ! Here a member asks if a thing exists and the AZ Community goes on the hunt to find it for him. In this case a friendly, helpful member turns up a copy when nobody else has it, announces he has it, and he's probably burning DVDs right now to distribute to interested parties because that's what we do around here.

Share and support our community.

What a place.

Kevin

 

[peteypooldude]

This is what's great about AZ! Here a member asks if a thing exists and the AZ Community goes on the hunt to find it for him. In this case a friendly, helpful member turns up a copy when nobody else has it, announces he has it, and he's probably burning DVDs right now to distribute to interested parties because that's what we do around here.

Share and support our community.

What a place.

Kevin

Right lol, Hope your not referring to"wanna be a Superstar"
She loves the fact no one has it

 

[3RAILKICK]

Yeah. OTHERS asked.

But the OP did not ask.

I was responding to the OP.

Who cares what everyone else wants.

But since it seems to bother everyone that I am not posting it.
Why not a picture of the table to get everyone really fired up!

What was it that you said?
Oh yeah. "claims" to have it...

SS-I would like to see the last two games of the match.

If you're agreeable, I'll P/pal a $10 gift to you (need p/pal address), then email me the clip of the last two games. Or maybe we can make this work another way.

PM me please.

thanks in advance..

take care

..edit: was typing at 11:02

 

[alstl]

The most perplexing aspect of this story for me is.....Nick Varner was a willing participant?

Nick never played Lebron so it's kind of hard to see what he participated in.

 

[peteypooldude]

Nick never played Lebron so it's kind of hard to see what he participated in.

The split evidently

 

[Black-Balled]

Nick never played Lebron so it's kind of hard to see what he participated in.

While it may be true that he didn't have to play, you must agree that he could have been it on it anyway? :scratchhead:

 

[Rico]

Earl also help pool at the camel tourn. I quit ,.sponsors loved that.

 

[BasementDweller]

AtLarge - Thanks for the info.

I have that Howard vs. LeBron match in the back of my mind somewhere. I seem to remember a lot of easy misses in that match too. I don't know if my memory is correct on this or not since I could be getting it mixed up with a more recent broadcast, but I seem to remember Allen Hopkins providing the commentary and quite often saying something along the lines of "that's what the pressure will do" after several easy misses.

This could be a really interesting story.

I could see ESPN doing one of those 30 for 30 documentaries on this. If only they had the footage.

 

[Drew]

Unbelievable all right! Only you believed it. :wink:
True that Earl was otherwise occupied that first year and it also may be partially true that the other players were not so keen to have him included. He was the dominant player at that time. I remember asking what happened, why wasn't he included and being told that he was unavailable.

That said, NO ONE knew the line until we all got there. It was not posted in advance! I think many people were aware that the Mirage Sports Book was going to make a line, but NO ONE saw the line until a day or two before the event was to begin. I remember being there the day before and all the players were incredulous that Lebron was 20-1 and the next long shot was David Howard at something like 7-1. We all knew that in a small field like this and with all good players playing short matches, any one of them could win.

That's when the wheels started turning in their heads and a plan was hatched. Now, we all know the result of that. I was not aware of any shenanigans until the semis, when I began to smell a rat. I could tell something was funny just by the way the players were interacting. I knew all these guys real well. Plus word went around that the players were handing a friend or spouse money to bet Lebron. And then the finals came and what happened, happened. I saw a couple of funny shots and I KNEW for sure! None of the players will ever admit it and I'm not surprised. And no one has any proof except them, and the few people they confided in.

Any way, Earl didn't know a thing until after the fact. That part of your (the Professor's) story is a fabrication. Of course after the fact it's easy to tell anyone anything and some people will believe it. I just happen to not be one of them. :wink:

Forgive my naivete, but this doesn't prove a thing.

Obviously, everybody must have known the tournament format: winner take all/$50,000 purse. And according to you, many people were aware that Mirage would make a line.

Isn't it possible that the players met well in advance to discuss splitting the $50,000 purse? Isn't it also possible that the players could have agreed to lay the $50,000 on whichever horse offered the biggest payout? Sure, they didn't know the lines...so they didn't know who they would bet on, but that doesn't stop anyone from making the deal.

Therefore, it's very possible that the players approached Earl in advance at which point he refuses and scheduling was made deliberately to keep him out...

I'm not saying that's how it went down; but the possibility is there. Even you didn't have any idea of what was happening until the semis.

 

[sfmc-x1]

This could be a really interesting story.

I could see ESPN doing one of those 30 for 30 documentaries on this. If only they had the footage.

It would be an interesting story, and for one, I'm a huge fan of the 30 for 30 series.

But...

A common theme in this thread is the question of how much damage the selfishness of a few people has done to the sport.

IMO. A 30 for 30 might be worth doing and fascinating to watch, but it would be a sad story at best, and wouldn't do anything for the sport as a positive. Just think of a possible title "The men who killed a sport". Shoot, what do I know, all press is good press.

 

[Drew]

It would be an interesting story, and for one, I'm a huge fan of the 30 for 30 series.

But...

A common theme in this thread is the question of how much damage the selfishness of a few people has done to the sport.

IMO. A 30 for 30 might be worth doing and fascinating to watch, but it would be a sad story at best, and wouldn't do anything for the sport as a positive. Just think of a possible title "The men who killed a sport". Shoot, what do I know, all press is good press.

I'm thinking this is more along the lines of a CNBC American Greed kind of segment.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

A common theme in this thread is the question of how much damage the selfishness of a few people has done to the sport.

There are more people that squandered opportunities and hurt the sport. Steve Mizerak had more power and influence to better the sport and got selfish and greedy. All he could come up with was challenge matches that guaranteed him a pay day!

Barry Behrman had so many offers and the us open only to run it into the ground.

Jeanette Lee is amazingly powerful and successful she needs to be more active in securing sponsors and helping the sport. She is our biggest star!

I just don't see the successful working on the sport that has been so good to them.

KD


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[PC_John]

Forgive my naivete, but this doesn't prove a thing.

Obviously, everybody must have known the tournament format: winner take all/$50,000 purse. And according to you, many people were aware that Mirage would make a line.

Isn't it possible that the players met well in advance to discuss splitting the $50,000 purse? Isn't it also possible that the players could have agreed to lay the $50,000 on whichever horse offered the biggest payout? Sure, they didn't know the lines...so they didn't know who they would bet on, but that doesn't stop anyone from making the deal.

Therefore, it's very possible that the players approached Earl in advance at which point he refuses and scheduling was made deliberately to keep him out...
I'm not saying that's how it went down; but the possibility is there. Even you didn't have any idea of what was happening until the semis.

Who was doing the scheduling? How could the players put up the money they haven't won yet?

 

[sfmc-x1]

I'm thinking this is more along the lines of a CNBC American Greed kind of segment.

True, but the story's 20 years old, ESPN would have the angle to wax nostalgia.

There are more people that squandered opportunities and hurt the sport. KD

True again, there's nothing new under the sun.

 

[javi2]

Jared is home? Thought he'd had wrestling

 

[Drew]

Who was doing the scheduling? How could the players put up the money they haven't won yet?

I don't know anything about the CoC...I was barely out of diapers when it happened. But I assume the $50,000 prize fund was public knowledge far in advance (just like every tournament). The players would have known who was invited far in advance as well. And evidently, it was also known in advance that the bookies would be taking bets.

I have no clue as to what happened. I'm just saying that it would have been possible (and plausible) for the players to do business weeks before the actual tournament.

As Jay said, the only people who know what happened are the ones who were involved. All I said was that the final bookie lines aren't needed to do business, and the previously posted story could be true.

 

[peteypooldude]

There are more people that squandered opportunities and hurt the sport. Steve Mizerak had more power and influence to better the sport and got selfish and greedy. All he could come up with was challenge matches that guaranteed him a pay day!

Barry Behrman had so many offers and the us open only to run it into the ground.

Jeanette Lee is amazingly powerful and successful she needs to be more active in securing sponsors and helping the sport. She is our biggest star!

I just don't see the successful working on the sport that has been so good to them.

KD


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Good post and some very good points. I too think Jeanette if anyone could invest back in the sport. This game has a big history of selfishness in the higher ranks. What I don't agree with is people claiming pool is not marketable. People are extremely negative about pool. Maybe one day we will have a smart business savy person to put it back on the map and prosecute those that step over the lines. If you pulled a stunt like that in snooker you would be banned for life

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Badminton

Because a YouTube video of an obscure match from twenty years ago will scare people off from playing pool or getting into pool.

"oh my goodness, those evil rapscallions fixed a billiard match twenty years ago! How dare those unwashed vulgar proles debase a fine gentrified sport! Well, off to play badminton."

Did you watch this year's Olympics, LOL. The love of money is the root of all evil.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

Azbilliards has a hall of fame! Maybe they should add a hall of shame!

KD

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2