Racking At The US BB Championship

[cardiac kid]

Yes, making one pattern everyone has to use also gets rid of needing neutral rackers.

I pattern rack one pocket as well! The eight ball is never one of the front three balls :thumbup:!

Actually, the pro's will figure out how to maximize their chances at making a ball on the break. Re-spotting the nine if it goes on the break in one or the other top pockets. Driving x number of balls past the side pocket. If all else fails, rack the nine on the spot and have at it!!! The physical rack itself just doesn't matter.

We have a conundrum. Do we allow players to run multiple racks from the break for the spectators enjoyment or make the game fair for all players. Which is more important to YOU !

Lyn

 

[JCIN]

Mark had an interesting thought. Rack any way you want but you have to break from the head spot. Every player, every time. Cue ball on the head spot and go. I sounds interesting to me if the goal is to make guys break harder.

Lynn I think a designated pattern is as viable as anything. Pattern racking doesnt bother me in the least so I dont see what all the fuss is about. 9 Ball is broken anyway and most of the people who are all jihad about it and acting like because the balls are in the same place in the rack each time make it so easy to run out that an APA 4 can run seven packs just make no sense to me. 9 ball should simply die as a game for skilled players.

 

[Richardson]

9 ball should simply die as a game for skilled players.

I agree with this.

I pattern rack one pocket as well! The eight ball is never one of the front three balls :thumbup:!

Fact!

 

[CreeDo]

If the problem is "every runout looks the same" then a forced pattern doesn't fix it.

If the problem is "it's too easy to break and run" then a forced pattern doesn't fix that either, because players will get good at that specific pattern and learn the best speed to avoid closters, the best position routes to avoid getting hooked, etc. They will never be challenged by weird, unique situations that could end their run.

The more routine you can add to a runout, the easier it is for good players. B and C players might be challenged by a "mississippi 9 ball" pattern that forces them to go up and down the table 5 times. But I don't think guys like Dennis O would be even a tiny bit fazed by this.

 

[pool101]

I saw a video somewhere about racking 9 ball, they said
1
8 7
3 9 5
2 4
6
you can switch 8,7 3,5 or 2,4 side to side but keep them in the same row.
The reason was to prevent the 2-9, 3-9 combo's early in the game..
I have been doing this for 2 years and rarely end up with an early ending.

I also use the Slug Doctor rack, It is the reinforcer donuts applied to the table... every one gets the same rack, balls are tight, no twisting the rack.
The only problem is the wing ball is wired, to eliminate that move the rack forward 1.5 inches..or see how it works with the head spot cue ball as Justin said.

 

[foxcues]

Just a thought.
Why not make it a rule that the other player gets the first shot after the break?
If I break,you get the first shot.Then pattern racking wont matter,The rack won`t be that big of a deal. You can soft break but who is it helping since you have the push option.

 

[cardiac kid]

If the problem is "every runout looks the same" then a forced pattern doesn't fix it.

If the problem is "it's too easy to break and run" then a forced pattern doesn't fix that either, because players will get good at that specific pattern and learn the best speed to avoid closters, the best position routes to avoid getting hooked, etc. They will never be challenged by weird, unique situations that could end their run.

The more routine you can add to a runout, the easier it is for good players. B and C players might be challenged by a "mississippi 9 ball" pattern that forces them to go up and down the table 5 times. But I don't think guys like Dennis O would be even a tiny bit fazed by this.

The thing with the "Ultimate" pattern is getting a shot on the second ball. As it is right now, most of these guys don't try to make the one in the side. They're trying to make a wing ball. Then get a shot on the first ball with the second ball close by. It changes the way the game is played. Thing is, they will be challenged by the table left after an "Ultimate" rack break. Challenged is the operative word. Right now it's the same thing over and over. At least with the very best players.

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

Just a thought.
Why not make it a rule that the other player gets the first shot after the break?
If I break,you get the first shot.Then pattern racking wont matter,The rack won`t be that big of a deal. You can soft break but who is it helping since you have the push option.

That is one of the rules Paul Schofield implemented in his "No Conflict" events. Unfortunately, one of our fellow posters called Paul a "crack pot room owner" for his suggestion. Not conducive to a reasoned discussion.

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

Mark had an interesting thought. Rack any way you want but you have to break from the head spot. Every player, every time. Cue ball on the head spot and go. I sounds interesting to me if the goal is to make guys break harder.

Lynn I think a designated pattern is as viable as anything. Pattern racking doesnt bother me in the least so I dont see what all the fuss is about. 9 Ball is broken anyway and most of the people who are all jihad about it and acting like because the balls are in the same place in the rack each time make it so easy to run out that an APA 4 can run seven packs just make no sense to me. 9 ball should simply die as a game for skilled players.

Justin,

Thanks so much for your reply. Nine ball is broken. Don't think there is a reasonable fix as well. As Mark has only seen about a zillion racks, what does he know :grin:? As I rarely play in Pro events anymore, it doesn't make a big difference to me. On the other hand, you and Mark have a vested interest in not only making the game challenging (and fair) for the players involved but the spectators you expect to pay for your services. Keep doing the great job your doing now. And thanks for your efforts. As much as I complain (the word I first used was Censored) from time to time, you and Mark are the best things to happen to the game of pool in a long, long time!

Lyn

 

[jamesroberts]

I have a good solution, make sure you win the flip !!!

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Just a thought.
Why not make it a rule that the other player gets the first shot after the break?
If I break,you get the first shot.Then pattern racking wont matter,The rack won`t be that big of a deal. You can soft break but who is it helping since you have the push option.

That is one of the rules Paul Schofield implemented in his "No Conflict" events. Unfortunately, one of our fellow posters called Paul a "crack pot room owner" for his suggestion. Not conducive to a reasoned discussion.

Lyn

Did Paul change the no conflict rules? I haven't looked at them in a while but as I recall the breaker stayed at the table after the break whether he made a ball or not - the opponent didn't get the table. And this had little to do with pattern racking but rather to eliminate all the time and fuss over the rack. He had a spin the rack 3 times move to get rid of the pattern racking.

 

[CreeDo]

The thing with the "Ultimate" pattern is getting a shot on the second ball. As it is right now, most of these guys don't try to make the one in the side. They're trying to make a wing ball. Then get a shot on the first ball with the second ball close by. It changes the way the game is played.

You could almost just replace the wing ball with the 1 ball, but then they'd break on the other side of the table. Unless you simply forbid it? (the new break box is the furthest right diamond)? But then it'd be seen as gaffy.

9 on the spot seems reasonable. Wing ball from this position is NOT very predictable even from magic rack, you really need to play the 1 ball. And you're cutting sharply so that the rest of the balls scatter pretty randomly.

 

[LHP5]

Just a thought.
Why not make it a rule that the other player gets the first shot after the break?
If I break,you get the first shot.Then pattern racking wont matter,The rack won`t be that big of a deal. You can soft break but who is it helping since you have the push option.

Wouldn't people then start safe breaking? Maybe sending whitey to the back of the rack? No matter what new rules are implemented to help stop the soft breaks/cut breaks and pattern racking, pool players are a very crafty group and will find ways to try and gain an advantage. Personally I don't see anything wrong with wanting an advantage.

 

[Meezer Girl]

[9 ball should simply die as a game for skilled players.[/QUOTE]

Exactly what I've been saying for quite some time now - the Pros need to be playing 10 ball until they "break" that game

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Johnny, you should really know what you're talking about before you publicly accuse champions of cheating.

1. You don't need to "manipulate" the magic rack to make balls go. They go easily with a perfectly tight rack.
They're 99% wired in 9b, they're 80% wired in 10b.

You can't just 'point balls at a pocket', the balls that drop are pointing 4-5 inches away from the hole.
They aren't like a wired 2 ball combo. They kiss off another moving ball.

2. One simple logical explanation besides assuming a world champion is cheating...
sometimes even with MBR the balls don't freeze right away, for example if one of them is a little smaller than the rest.
Corey is a perfectionist so he will start over until the rack is perfectly tight. That may mean moving the small ball to a different spot so it doesn't leave a gap.


3. One company makes the magic ball rack. They have changed it over the years but it's all the same product.
In fact I believe it's the work of one guy, and he's on AZbilliards:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2002896&postcount=1

If you think you see a magic rack knockoff used in a pro event, someone should mention it to him so he can sue their pants off.

Well said! Also, it should be noted that the magic rack can occasionally become creased, or can even bunch up a little while you are rolling the balls onto it. This can make for a bad rack, and you just have to take the balls of and make sure it is flat, and start again. Still way better and faster than a regular rack. And not a recipe for cheating. I mean, I'm sure there must be a way to cheat, but why not give these guys the benefit of the doubt *first*? To me, the easiest rack to make a ball is a perfectly frozen and correctly used magic rack. Also, by having everything frozen, you can more accurately play shape on the low ball. You can do this without much trouble *without* pattern racking. On a bar table, there are many more collisions after the break, so pattern racking is much less relevant.

FYI

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

[9 ball should simply die as a game for skilled players.

Exactly what I've been saying for quite some time now - the Pros need to be playing 10 ball until they "break" that game [/QUOTE]

Um...so this broken 9 ball game resulted in what...the two worst players getting first and second in the BB championship? I mean, didn't the 2 everyone thought would win make it to the finals? So its a broken game? Seems to work ok for the better players...

KMRUNOUT

 

[cardiac kid]

Did Paul change the no conflict rules? I haven't looked at them in a while but as I recall the breaker stayed at the table after the break whether he made a ball or not - the opponent didn't get the table. And this had little to do with pattern racking but rather to eliminate all the time and fuss over the rack. He had a spin the rack 3 times move to get rid of the pattern racking.

Dogs,

You are correct. I failed to read the post correctly. Paul's event you rack your own and break. You also get the first shot at the rack unless you scratch. Thanks for pointing out my error.

Lyn

 

[Hungarian]

I like it.

Guys,

To stop pattern racking in its place, why not force all players to use the ultimate pattern rack. One in the front. Two and three second row. Four, nine and five in the third row. Six and seven in the fourth row and eight ball behind. Use the Sardo. Use the Magic Rack. Use whatever you want but EVERY rack is the same ball structure. Players might not like it but hey, what are you going to do if it's the rule! As one poster put it, it might save an hour or two at every event! Might also end the endless arguments .

Lyn

 

[Hungarian]

Corey's preferred pattern

...1
..2 7
.3 9 4
..8 5
...6

........

 

[CJ Wiley]

it's like pitching to myself playing baseball

I saw a video somewhere about racking 9 ball, they said
1
8 7
3 9 5
2 4
6
you can switch 8,7 3,5 or 2,4 side to side but keep them in the same row.
The reason was to prevent the 2-9, 3-9 combo's early in the game..
I have been doing this for 2 years and rarely end up with an early ending.

I also use the Slug Doctor rack, It is the reinforcer donuts applied to the table... every one gets the same rack, balls are tight, no twisting the rack.
The only problem is the wing ball is wired, to eliminate that move the rack forward 1.5 inches..or see how it works with the head spot cue ball as Justin said.

Yes, I had this on my first video, and it's the most difficult pattern that I used when "giving up the break".

I believe all Pro events or "special events" should have Referees, managed by someone using local league players. (if you don't have them managed by someone it probably will lead to problems)

With the tournaments that have numerous players and aren't really "Pro Events" I would think you would just alternate breaks and break from the foot spot, or rack the 9 on the spot and break "from the box".

9 Ball is still the best game in my opinion. 10 Ball is ok if you don't rack for yourself, it's like pitching to myself playing baseball.:wink: When I rack for myself I can make 2-3 balls most of the time and shoot the one in the bottom corner. If someone else racks I can't do this with near the consistency. I'm not sure why this is....