Is Charlie Williams the most powerful man in pro-pool?

Mark I would raise a few thousand for a Pro event in a heart beat! I guarantee you.And I know nothing about business,promoting and I'm bad with numbers.

All I can do half decently is play pool.

But I know of people close to me who knows a lot more about this business, and they could raise $10.000 for a Pro event without even trying. And they have great and positive intention, and you have met them recently,and they have put a bit of money in your pocket too,to you and your promotions you are involve with,I believe..

Now there are many promoters in the US that that is what they do,every day, that is what they do.Don't tell me what is involved in organizing an event, I can have an idea, and if you think many of the promoters are doing a great job. How come the players are so miserable?

Well, with all due respect I really think they are not doing a good job. For themselves maybe yes, for the players, NO!!

And if these so called Pro Tournaments are not for the betterment of the players and the betterment of the sport,-who is it for?

I understand the expenses of a Pro event/World event are different than a regional tour in a poolhall, I understand all that.

All your responses I already know and heard 1000 times.
However there is a lot of room for improvement. Ask any Pro player that has been touring for decades about it,and see what they tell you.

Many Open and Pro tours paid a lot better some 20 years ago than now.
To me it is obvious then that whoever the promoters where then, did a much better job than the ones now.Maybe not, maybe they just got lucky bumping into a big sponsor. I don't know, and I m not afraid of being wrong

I still think it wouldnt take much to improve these payouts.

What pool and the players need is less people talking about the reasons of why there is no money in pool. Pool needs positive promoters going out there and finding a way to make sure a Pro event will pay decent money for the Pro Players.

I really don't think they are even trying. Why try anyways if the players are going to show up and play wether they pay $10.000 for 1st or $20.000?

Thats what I see. And the numbers in these prize funds state very clearly this fact.
Marc, I now know exactly who you are. I also really like you and your wife. So I am going to maybe try and put this down to a language barrier. That is not an insult at all and I am not rying to be a dick. I have to give you the benefit of the doubt though ONLY because I know who you are and that I have never heard anything bad about you or your friends, so I hope I am right on that score. I also have to give you the benefit of the doublt because you know what goes into these events vis your good lady wife. If I was hard on you and ranting I am sorry IF you didn't mean it the way it came out. I really believe that is the case here.
 
Williams

Mark,I'm just giving my opinion, sorry I got you hot about it.

I respect and like, believe it or not, most of the promoters that indirectly (in this case,through this forum), I've said that they are not doing a good job.
They have all been good to me, before my marriage and after,lol, before meeting my adorable daughter, and after..

I understand they try, they work hard, and it is much better to have them doing what they are doing, than not having them putting up events at all.

I may sound demanding and playing victim in the name of the players in general,but I'm not.
I'm just trying to get across my opinion, and quick. But I'm not really attacking anyone, personally. I'm just trying to give a constructive critic

I enjoy and participate in their events as much as I can.And I love it. But there are many flaws,and not only about the lame payouts,but in organization, politics,decision,etc. I mean,seriously, there isnt even referees in the US Opens!

I hate playing victim, and trying to talk in the name of many pool players, but you yourself have seen how many of the best ones of all time live,and how bad many struggle.

I understand that many of them have made terrible decisions in their life, and didnt manage to manage their winnings right, etc.

Many top players did not get a College education because they were too busy getting high, partying and most of all,playing pool,gambling,etc...
It's sad to say it like this but it is true, and now I am attacking the players, that many are drug addicts and losers.

Just like text messages,nowadays, things can get misunderstood in forums. You can read, but you can't see the face, the expression, the tone, and that is part of an opinion or an answer, as well.(it aint just what I write, theres a person in the other side of the screen, and a face, and a million other thoughts and processes and experiences, and frustrations, and a million things, that you could only understand if you were inside that person).

Thats why we cant absolutize anything. We cant think we are right and the rest are wrong.

What I tried to say in this post is that if I see good-hearted promoters come up with tournaments that pay better in proportion, than other bigger events. And that makes me believe that some of the bigger promoters can do better. Although I understand many factors I can't grasp, since I am not a promoter,nor a business man.

I truly feel, Pro pool in particular can be improved for the players, and more money to the prize fund could be possible,if the right promoters could be in charge.
Maybe what we have are too many good business men, that care about making a good sum, but do not care enough for the players, in both the amateur level and the Professional level.

Maybe we need more promoters that can really promote to make it a little bit better for the players.


Thats all I wanted to say.

My opinions will be easy to critic,just like any other; for the same reason it is so easily to start a conspiracy theory about..just about anything really.

But I am perfectly comfortable with being wrong in my opinions. As a matter of fact I know I will be in many points, and some others perhaps not so much. So what?

When I see people being wrong I laugh with them often, maybe because I can see their faces, I can understand why they think the way they do.
Well, I like playing pool and what I express is nothing but my concern, from my perspective. Is that so wrong? Well,if it is,it's fine. Let me be wrong.

Many pool players in this country are suffering over the game, when is not supposed to be this way. It doesnt have to be.
I see in their faces, in every tournament I go, they are not happy, and I think both the players and Organizations should stop fighting and criticizing each other, and start working together, I mean really starting to work together.
 
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The key to "Promotion" is PRO MOTION, and it MUST be on ESPN or other Major Stations

Mark I would raise a few thousand for a Pro event in a heart beat! I guarantee you.And I know nothing about business,promoting and I'm bad with numbers.

All I can do half decently is play pool.

But I know of people close to me who knows a lot more about this business, and they could raise $10.000 for a Pro event without even trying. And they have great and positive intention, and you have met them recently,and they have put a bit of money in your pocket too,to you and your promotions you are involve with,I believe..

Now there are many promoters in the US that that is what they do,every day, that is what they do.Don't tell me what is involved in organizing an event, I can have an idea, and if you think many of the promoters are doing a great job. How come the players are so miserable?

Well, with all due respect I really think they are not doing a good job. For themselves maybe yes, for the players, NO!!

And if these so called Pro Tournaments are not for the betterment of the players and the betterment of the sport,-who is it for?

I understand the expenses of a Pro event/World event are different than a regional tour in a poolhall, I understand all that.

All your responses I already know and heard 1000 times.
However there is a lot of room for improvement. Ask any Pro player that has been touring for decades about it,and see what they tell you.

Many Open and Pro tours paid a lot better some 20 years ago than now.
To me it is obvious then that whoever the promoters where then, did a much better job than the ones now.Maybe not, maybe they just got lucky bumping into a big sponsor. I don't know, and I m not afraid of being wrong

I still think it wouldnt take much to improve these payouts.

What pool and the players need is less people talking about the reasons of why there is no money in pool. Pool needs positive promoters going out there and finding a way to make sure a Pro event will pay decent money for the Pro Players.

I really don't think they are even trying. Why try anyways if the players are going to show up and play wether they pay $10.000 for 1st or $20.000?

Thats what I see. And the numbers in these prize funds state very clearly this fact.

You're making valid points and your opinions are justified, and really not that critical. I'll tell you from experience - when you start talking about Pros making more money, getting pool back on ESPN or improving the quality of promotion or recognition {for all top professionals) you may get some resistance. :groucho: Of course this is the path to "finding solutions," and {of course} it's got some "bumps" and "bruises".

There's some natural conflicts of interest, and that's no reason for anything to be personal, it's just a game. I'm sure everyone in the "pool world" is trying their best with what experience they have to draw from, and that's all that can be expected.

The key to "Promotion" is PRO MOTION: This "Motion" must be where the Champions can reach millions of people, not just hundreds. The average ESPN Pool Show always averaged a million viewers (when I had personal knowledge), out of the 70 Million potential ESPN "universe".

We're optimistic that if you stir the {promotional} fire enough you will get flames (IOW business success and momentum) again, and pretty soon you have a roaring fire again. Like the "good ole days" in the 90's. ;) Without TV people would even forget about baseball after a couple of years, so pool's not unique, just forgot about. :(

One thing's for sure if we keep doing the same things we will keep getting the same results. 'Experience is the Teacher'
 
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The only thing I wonder about Charlie Williams is:

Is he from North or South Korea? Ha!

--Jeff
 
I love you buddy but yes, your opinion is obviously biased. I already knew the answer to my question but just wanted everyone to be clear where you were coming from. JCIN and Mark Griffin know a little something about promoting pool and you know what their opinion is.

Today this VPBB guy doesn't have any hard stats of the great Bonus Ball leagues he ran all over Canada. He has to get them uploaded, I can only imagine what creative score sheets we will be seeing once he does so. Sham Wow.
Without question my opinion is biased as I know things behind the scenes with this particular organization which is no different then Justin or Mark and the opinions they have which are pro BCAPL, CSI, TAR and most of everything else tied in.

In a perfect pool world we would have TAP, BCAPL and APA all working together and pooling that money into a pro tour fund which they could write off as advertising and get it on TV or just have TAR stream those events. We live in a real world though where that will not happen and I understand it probably doesn't benefit them or make any sense financially so its just a pipe dream.

There could be money in pro pool but first someone needs to figure out how to make money at it or they will not lift a finger or dig deep in their coffers. With all the mishaps and delays aside I see Bonus Ball as a a fresh new chance for pro pool that does have a chance to work. You cannot write something off before it has even begun and you do not know all the things going on behind the scenes.

Most people have not really even seen the game played, granted its not everyone's cup of tea but neither is every game out there. Personally I love one pocket and it seems the majority do not but it still has a strong following, more people like 9 ball but I dislike it as do others.
 
Most people have not really even seen the game played, granted its not everyone's cup of tea but neither is every game out there. Personally I love one pocket and it seems the majority do not but it still has a strong following, more people like 9 ball but I dislike it as do others.

Please don't compare a cheesy made-up game to 1 pocket. Even if all the stars lined up for BB, its chances were slim to none. Seeing the extraordinary bungling-up of the rollout thus far, I would say it's DOA.

-roger <----speaking as someone with zero inside knowledge.
 
Please don't compare a cheesy made-up game to 1 pocket. Even if all the stars lined up for BB, its chances were slim to none. Seeing the extraordinary bungling-up of the rollout thus far, I would say it's DOA.

-roger <----speaking as someone with zero inside knowledge.

Roger, everyone is entitled to their opinion which is what makes the forum great regardless of how uneducated in the particular topic some might be. Some of the things we find terrible to play or watch have a great following. I look at golf and think its boring as hell to watch but plenty of money in it for sure, what about some of the crap I have seen in the Olympics, it is what it is in this crazy world we live in. I used to sit and watch poker on TV and my girlfriend at the time hated it just like I hate watching American Idol, to each their own they say is so true.
 
Please don't compare a cheesy made-up game to 1 pocket.

When Larry first approached me about working for BB, I secretly laughed at the idea. He sent me a set of balls to learn the game, but I had no intent whatsoever in the offer.

Eventually one day Dave and I threw the balls out on the table and tried to learn then game. There were some pretty stupid rules, but surprisingly the core of the game had merit. We talked to Larry about changing a few rules, and within a few weeks, the game won me over.

Yes, I outright admit that I am to produce the BB season, and my crew has taken over almost every aspect of the league since Barry was let go. As such I clearly have a bias. However that bias comes from honestly believing that this is the best game out there. Period.

Sure, not everyone will like the game, but when I see people calling it a gimmick, it simply tells me that people are too closed minded and haven't even taken the time to investigate the intricacies of the game.

I realize that it's a big joke on the forums, and always has been, but the reality is that no one on here except my crew has the slightest idea of what's to come. When people start to learn what we know, I expect to see the bandwagon jumpers start changing their tune. Even if I'm wrong, at least an effort will have been made, unlike those who simply dismiss other's efforts without proper consideration.
 
Nathan - giveaway one secret that will wow us, not Sham Wow us.

Again, all we have heard is that this game is being played all over Canada in leagues, etc. and everyone falls in love with the game. When I asked to see the stats, the vice president needs time to put it all together before he can show us.
 
Nathan - giveaway one secret that will wow us, not Sham Wow us.

Again, all we have heard is that this game is being played all over Canada in leagues, etc. and everyone falls in love with the game. When I asked to see the stats, the vice president needs time to put it all together before he can show us.

I don't think it was ever said that leagues were up all over Canada. If IRC Barry said he set up one trial league in Winnipeg.
 
Bonus ball blows, unleash until proven otherwise. May never happen. They can't even get the best player from their country on board, what's that tell you.
 
Bonus ball blows, unleash until proven otherwise. May never happen. They can't even get the best player from their country on board, what's that tell you.

Actually, Shane asked to be back on a team after he quit the first time, but Souquet got the last spot earlier that morning.
 
What about Alex, he's the Canadian.
They will probably get back on now, if they start letting each team have 3/4 subs. Then they don't have to be committed. That's what was said on tar anyhow.

It's awful suspicious how the teams were made anyhow
 
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I just wish it would start. I'm interested to say the least.
But I've never seen anyone practicing or playing the game. Or gambling at it, yet
 
Pool in Canada lololol bwahahahaha lololo
oh sorry does this stinking corpse belong to you, please remove it.
 
I changed my mind. I think Danny Harriman is the most powerful man in pro pool. Man, that guy is tough!
 
well said!

Justin Collett has become my second favorite writer in the pool world.

George Fels is still my favorite.....

....although I'll bet on Justin when it comes to arm-wrestling....

____________________________________
1. George Fels
2. Is a tie: Justin Collett and OMGWTF
All three of them have put me into hysterics on more than one occasion for their writings :thumbup:
 
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