Cliff Joyner looking for sponsors

[Banks]

Most people don't have the balls to attempt this line of work

Most also don't have the "balls" to play video games professionally. The difference is that they recognize the difficulty of living that way. Pool players still seem to think the world is one big hand-out.

If Cliff got his $$, how long would it be before he asks for it again? Don't sugarcoat it either.

Sorry, but I'm not big on people that show up out of nowhere, contribute absolutely nothing, ask for handouts and then ***** about how they're received. The more he or whoever is posing as/for him wants to push this issue, the more they come off as a bit clueless as to how the world works.

 

[JAM]

Most also don't have the "balls" to play video games professionally. The difference is that they recognize the difficulty of living that way. Pool players still seem to think the world is one big hand-out.

If Cliff got his $$, how long would it be before he asks for it again? Don't sugarcoat it either.

Sorry, but I'm not big on people that show up out of nowhere, contribute absolutely nothing, ask for handouts and then ***** about how they're received. The more he or whoever is posing as/for him wants to push this issue, the more they come off as a bit clueless as to how the world works.

I didn't view this thread as Cliff asking for a handout. I thought he was asking for someone to sponsor him. Is there a difference?

 

[Spimp13]

I didn't view this thread as Cliff asking for a handout. I thought he was asking for someone to sponsor him. Is there a difference?

I think someone coming on here out of the blue asking for a sponsor while isn't necessarily a big deal (except to those he maybe owes money to)....might be frowned on by some members vs someone who has contributed on the site in the past, even if it is something small like a couple of stories/pictures etc. I also think it loses a personal touch now that we know it isn't him posting, but a friend posting for him. Is he too embarrassed to take the time to ask for himself?

 

[Bigtruck]

Most also don't have the "balls" to play video games professionally. The difference is that they recognize the difficulty of living that way. Pool players still seem to think the world is one big hand-out.

If Cliff got his $$, how long would it be before he asks for it again? Don't sugarcoat it either.

Sorry, but I'm not big on people that show up out of nowhere, contribute absolutely nothing, ask for handouts and then ***** about how they're received. The more he or whoever is posing as/for him wants to push this issue, the more they come off as a bit clueless as to how the world works.

So companies that advertise their opportunity are asking for a handout?

Most players need a backer or sponsor for each major event. This is an opportunity for backers and/or companies to get involved. No where did I see anyone asking for a handouts.

Ray

 

[JAM]

I think someone coming on here out of the blue asking for a sponsor while isn't necessarily a big deal (except to those he maybe owes money to)....might be frowned on by some members vs someone who has contributed on the site in the past, even if it is something small like a couple of stories/pictures etc. I also think it loses a personal touch now that we know it isn't him posting, but a friend posting for him. Is he too embarrassed to take the time to ask for himself?

As I stated earlier in the thread, I don't think Cliff knows how to post on a forum. I don't believe he has computer skills like most, if not all, of us here do; thus, why he asked someone to post for him.

I'm sure he thought it was a good idea at the time, but now I think he realizes the mistake he made venturing onto this forum. He is not familiar with forum culture, much less AzBilliards Discussion Forum culture.

He may not understand the necessity for a good back-and-forth colloquy, and I'm most positive he doesn't live on this forum, reading it 24/7 as some do here, as I do here when I am working.

I've known Cliff for the past 10 years or so, and he's always struck me as kind of an unassuming-type personality. He's not an in-your-face type guy. I will bet it was his friend's idea to post here, not his.

I posted in this thread defending him from the mean-spirited words that were written about him. I stand by my posts, and I don't need my forum friends to cover my back and post in the affirmative with me.

 

[JAM]

I knew I had remembered a thread about Cliff Joyner, and it was in 2006. Diane Crane, Wade's ex-wife, was trying to help Cliff get sponsored for an IPT event.

Here's the thread ---> Cliff Joyner.

In her thread, Cliff also got ripped across the AzBilliards coals, as did Diane for helping him. Diane is good pool peeps and wouldn't exert herself to help Cliff Joyner if she did not think of him highly. :smile:


The above-referenced thread also illustrates that Cliff does not have computer skills to post for himself. In this regard, the person helping him identified herself. That may have been the best approach to have taken in this thread.

 

[Banks]

I didn't view this thread as Cliff asking for a handout. I thought he was asking for someone to sponsor him. Is there a difference?

It appeared as though he was just asking for the money so that he could play. As I stated before, he can compete and all, but the mix of: asking for something without any mention of a return, insulting people with questions/concerns and having virtually no history on AZB.. makes me not a big fan of the approach.

Maybe I'm wrong.. he specifically said sponsor, repeated such, which to me does not sound like there's any return involved. To me, that's a hand-out.

I think someone coming on here out of the blue asking for a sponsor while isn't necessarily a big deal (except to those he maybe owes money to)....might be frowned on by some members vs someone who has contributed on the site in the past, even if it is something small like a couple of stories/pictures etc. I also think it loses a personal touch now that we know it isn't him posting, but a friend posting for him. Is he too embarrassed to take the time to ask for himself?

For the most part, what the Pimp said.

So companies that advertise their opportunity are asking for a handout?

Most players need a backer or sponsor for each major event. This is an opportunity for backers and/or companies to get involved. No where did I see anyone asking for a handouts.

Ray

As I said above, maybe I'm wrong, but from how it sounded he wanted a 'sponsor', not a 'backer'. Sponsor = donation ..yes?

I already said I'm sure he'd get it and I can't even think about knocking how well he plays.

That said, I'm not going to stand by and listen to somebody get all uppity towards non-pros because a pro is being questioned over his method of obtaining funds. "You work a boring 40hr desk job and pay a student loan, car loan, rent and god knows what else, but how dare you question me asking for more than you make in a month so that somebody can play pool." That doesn't fly with me.

 

[JAM]

It appeared as though he was just asking for the money so that he could play. As I stated before, he can compete and all, but the mix of: asking for something without any mention of a return, insulting people with questions/concerns and having virtually no history on AZB.. makes me not a big fan of the approach....

I understand what you are thinking better now, but I did not interpret "sponsor" to mean he was going to accept cash and not give something back to the sponsor if he won.

The word "sponsor," however, can swing both ways, so I can see why it would be confusing.

I would think Cliff would discuss the percentage of the split if he wins money with the prospective sponsor in private. I just cannot imagine anyone discussing something like that in the public forum, subjecting themselves to scrutiny and opinions about what's fair and what's not fair, et cetera.

It's okay to not want to be a part of sponsoring a player in a tournament. We all work hard for our cash. I've donated in the past to players trying to compete overseas, and I didn't even know the player. I was holding pretty good, so I decided to do a good deed.

I hope you did not interpret my posts as being derogatory towards you as a working person. Heck, I work too. Wish I could retire, but if I want to live where I'm living today, I'll be working the rest of my life. :frown:

 

[Banks]

I hope you did not interpret my posts as being derogatory towards you as a working person. Heck, I work too. Wish I could retire, but if I want to live where I'm living today, I'll be working the rest of my life. :frown:

I'm not worried about it, JAM. That's why I tried to clarify what I thought he meant. I think somebody said something about backing, but he responded that Cliff was looking for a 'sponsor' and not a backer. From how I read/see it, backing implies a cut, sponsoring implies you get to play vicariously through him.

FTR, I've been backed maybe a few times, for a total of around $200. Does that count for anything?

 

[JAM]

I'm not worried about it, JAM. That's why I tried to clarify what I thought he meant. I think somebody said something about backing, but he responded that Cliff was looking for a 'sponsor' and not a backer. From how I read/see it, backing implies a cut, sponsoring implies you get to play vicariously through him.

FTR, I've been backed maybe a few times, for a total of around $200. Does that count for anything?

When we've been on the road, I've seen Keith drum up a backers committee. How's that for accumulating funds?!

The best backers committee -- well, I have two very fond memories. One of them was Keith vs. Jalapena at a Joss tourney in Bristol, Connecticut. Jalapena propositioned Keith to play some, but we didn't have enough funds to play for what Jalapena wanted to play for -- a dime a set.

So Keith goes to get a backers committee, but nobody liked him, except Ryan McCreesh. So Ryan and Keith pooled their funds together to play Jalapena. It was an intense match. It felt like the entire joint was pulling for Jalapena. Keith won the set easily, thank goodness.

Well, pool is a fickle bunch, I'll tell you. After that, Santos propositioned Keith. This time, Jalapena's supporters wanted to be on Keith's backers committee, but Ryan and Keith turned them down and decided to cover it themselves. Ka-ching! Keith triumphed again. :thumbup:

I took this picture after the Keith vs. Jalapena match.

 

[Put_upor_shutup]

Pretty simple here...Cliff is in need of a sponsorship to play in a tournament with potential financial gain for all involved.If u r willing to help cool.If u r not..cool..But no need to comment if u have no interest in helping.Let the man do what it takes to make it in the world.2+2 poker forums have ppl soliciting all the time for backers.Poker players however usually sell off their tourney entries for for more than they are to enter though..Say to buy 10% u may have to pay 1.6% for it..I dont see any complaints there(yes I know poker pays more).This man is just trying to get to his next event and feed his kids.No harm no foul.Live and let live.Never belittle cause at the end of the day noone is better or worse just some are better off..Cliff its still a set 10-6 when i see u..good luck..David Parker

 

[lfigueroa]

I have also worked all my life, So I challenge anyone to tell me making a living on the road is not a job. Unfortunately, There is and has been no security to this line of work. IIt was compared to TiddlyWinks by a billiard forum know it all earlier while at the same time making light of the people who are the best at what they do. So anyone that thinks a road veteran does not pay his dues. Come and tell me that. And I will say what I believe. 1 Hardest Job= Pro Pool Player. #2 Every other job. I will defend what I think is right. Gary

From the looks of this thread, the hardest part about being a pro pool player would seem to be having to ask for a handout.

Lou Figueroa
does not
know it all

 

[CJ Wiley]

The only thing sweeter than money earned is money won

I remember one night at the Sportscenter you were playing Lil Ricky races to 11. You were winning 10-1. Louie kept asking you to borrow $10 so he could buy a pizza. You kept telling him to leave you alone while you were playing. You would shout at Louie from across the pool room and then Louie would say something under his breath, causing you to respond some more. You lost 11-10. You really let Louie have it after that until Louie, who got emotional at times while drinking, started to cry. You guys hugged it out afterwards and you bought him the pizza.

Sure miss those days, I was still in High School sneaking down to St. Louis to play. One time Rick Thompson and I got got snowed in that Sportscenter at Grand and Gravois, it immobilized the city even the taxis couldn't operate.

There was definitely action though, with Neal, Louie, and the boys around. We actually booked a winner shooting craps on the pool table, then waded chest deep in snow across the street to White Castle.....many those little burgers were tasty that day. The only thing sweeter than money earned is money won.

 

[watchez]

Grand & Gravois was a different pool room - not if that matters.

Lil Ricky told me that he couldn't stand the fact that he played and lost to you, someone younger than him.

First pool match I ever gambled on was 1on1pooltourneys father playing Gary. I knew nothing, not that I know anything now, but was told to bet with everyone else betting on Gary cause he had the nuts. Someone forget to tell 1on1's father that cause he robbed Gary set after set and we all went broke.

Ok - hijack over.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Not Again ???????????????????

Most also don't have the "balls" to play video games professionally. The difference is that they recognize the difficulty of living that way. Pool players still seem to think the world is one big hand-out.

If Cliff got his $$, how long would it be before he asks for it again? Don't sugarcoat it either.

Sorry, but I'm not big on people that show up out of nowhere, contribute absolutely nothing, ask for handouts and then ***** about how they're received. The more he or whoever is posing as/for him wants to push this issue, the more they come off as a bit clueless as to how the world works.

So playing pool is now comparable to playing video games,.???????????? WTF...!!!!!!!?.... Where do you people come from ??

 

[lfigueroa]

So playing pool is now comparable to playing video games,.???????????? WTF...!!!!!!!?.... Where do you people come from ??

I think you missed the salient points he was trying to make. Try again:

#####
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banks
...The difference is that they recognize the difficulty of living that way. Pool players still seem to think the world is one big hand-out.

If Cliff got his $$, how long would it be before he asks for it again? Don't sugarcoat it either.

Sorry, but I'm not big on people that show up out of nowhere, contribute absolutely nothing, ask for handouts and then ***** about how they're received. The more he or whoever is posing as/for him wants to push this issue, the more they come off as a bit clueless as to how the world works.
#####


Lou Figueroa

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Ouch!!!!!!!!!

Grand & Gravois was a different pool room - not if that matters.

Lil Ricky told me that he couldn't stand the fact that he played and lost to you, someone younger than him.

First pool match I ever gambled on was 1on1pooltourneys father playing Gary. I knew nothing, not that I know anything now, but was told to bet with everyone else betting on Gary cause he had the nuts. Someone forget to tell 1on1's father that cause he robbed Gary set after set and we all went broke.

Ok - hijack over.

You weren't at Breaktime in Granite City when Bob Sr. and Dick Weaver both got the 8 and didn't like it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Just to prove to alias Cliff, that not all AZers are A Holes, as he put it, search the main page for a thread on an autographed pool cue for sale.

Within is a story of the son of a well known member that wanted to sell an autographed cue to help fund a summer trip to Church Camp.

This young fellow also worked and saved as much as he could .

Instead of him having to sell his cue, AZ members helped him raise enuff money, $600,
per person to not only send him to camp, but one of his friends as well and working on a third.

He actually worked and saved money. One generous member donated enuff for one person.

I guess it shows where the members hearts are and it's just that we have our priorities
In proper order.

Calling members A Holes and putting down AZ in general when it is blatantly obvious that your goal isn't going to be met is probably not the best way to solicit donations.

From the looks of the old thread that was posted re a member asking for donations on Cliff's behalf didn't look like it was met with any more enthusiasm than this one so at the very least, we are consistent A Holes.

In the future should this be attempted again, people will most likely remember this one.

In our small city, when a league team wants to gather extra for Vegas travel expenses, they hold steak nights and Sat tourneys.
They don't make a ton but at least, they make an effort.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Think about this ...

Think about the thread concerning BB and some are so concerned that the pro's wont be able to play in the large event's coming up in Tunica this month . And it is not good that they are overlapping, I understand this after a conversation with Greg Sullivan. My thinking is that they are so concerned the Pro"s not playing will do damage beyond repair to the tournament.
I hope in the future they can work as 1 to help the Pro's make a living. I know a pro looking to play in Tunica and no one has come on this forum to help him enter these events. That is 1 player more to help fill the chart at Tunica . Its too bad this this top player has to look for a sponsor online and all of the people concerned about this upcoming fantastic Tunica Tournament and all it does for pool will not step up for a legend player. Can you say Brutal,
Gary

 

[JB Cases]

You certainly did not have permission to have the Roadie alias. As soon as Wilson confirmed that you were operating under an alias, the Roadie account was banned.

To refresh your memory:

Sometimes, when you're on the high ground, and you can survey the whole scene, you have an overview and information not apparent to those in the valley. This is one of those times when it's entertaining to see you, who has no idea what permissions I have had, making statements of fact to deflect from your own CURRENT rule breaking.

You, who has made it a point to call out many people on the rules, pretty much a missionary position on the topic of being a stickler for the rules, is now engaging in ad-hominem attacks, name calling, and harassment.

That is what you are doing right now. So do you feel that the rules you ask others to abide by don't apply to you? I mean, you and Lou can attempt to deflect the conversation but you know me better than that by now and know full well that I will not let you get off that easily.

So, to restate the question, do you feel that it's ok for you to break the rules on AZB?