commentators get your stuff together

Pre-Flag Master said:
I've learned a lot by listening to good commentary. What would be cool is to have two audio channels. You could turn off the commentary if desired and still hear the table. But that's just day dreaming.

Sometimes there are technical issues as well. One commentator will be too loud or quite relative to the other commentator, or as mentioned earlier, the table sounds.

I agree with both sides of this thread. On the one hand be grateful you are getting to watch pool for free. On the other hand, some of the commentary is so bad that it becomes a negative. I'm not always expecting great commentary, but bad commentary is a negative, and I have also been dissatisfied with many of the specific issues listed in this thread.

However, Alvin does play and know pool. He has had streams that were quite acceptable. Some interaction - in moderation - with the chat is a nice touch. People can ask questions, etc. But the main body of the stream's commentary does need to be about the match at hand.

Fatz
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100% agree. I like the interaction with the chat room. Kinda makes us feel more there. While we are day dreaming I have often said that the streamers need a chatroom person to be the one monitoring the chat and being the go-between for the commentator and the chat room.

I will say this, I could NOT and WOULD NOT sit there all day long filming pool matches. I think that very few people understand that they are the first ones there to set up, the ones who have to be there all the time to babysit the equipment and on call the rest of the time, and the last to leave breaking down all their equipment.

I have missed 95% of pro events running my booths. I guarantee you I spend more time on my feet and awake during an event than most of the people there. So I have a genuine empathy for all the streamers who essentially run an always on operation. I would go stir-crazy sitting there for 12 hours or more per day.
 
Alvin isn't a pool player or commentator, but without him there wouldn't be a stream. It's like getting the camera operator to do NFL play by play, he's a great camera man but doesn't know much about football strategy.

When i get tired of the LIVE LIVE LIVE blabbering commentary i just mute it and think of the tech work he does for the stream before criticizing him.

Would a real commentator or player in the booth make it better, absolutely, but if they can't get anyone i'm still glad i have a decent quality free stream to watch with or without sound.

Heck, i at times even have some issues with the guys that some people consider the best pool commentators in the US too. Sometimes hearing the same stories from the good old days for the 150th time gets annoying too.
 
Listening to Alvin is horrible. "LIVE BABY LIVE!"
I can here the noise from the mic shoved into his mouth like a nightmare.

Best I've heard was 'Jay Helfert and Jim Wych' and 'Scott Frost and Billy Incardona'
 
after much brainstorming I've come to the conclusion that Alvin must owe JR Calvert of inside pool a huge sum of money.LOL As far as his technical expertise the inside pool stream was the worst quality I've watched in awhile.Player would be on the 1 ball & next frame the balls were being racked.I guess if you were in solitary confinement for 5 years the inside pool stream would be appreciated. the only saving grace was danny harriman who probably felt sorry for Alvin or else Alvin agreed to buy him drinks for the duration of the event. lol
 
Dare I, chime in???

The opinions and facts here have been a pretty good read.

As a spectator to streams I am usually comparing myself to the streamer, taking notes and thinking of ways to change my show to suit the audience/s needs. I have already accepted that not everyone watching will not be happy with my show. I doesn't bother me much anymore, but that still doesn't stop me from striving for excellence.

I as a streamer, I empathize with the frustrations that viewers have with awkward moments, technical problems and obnoxious behavior.

On the about page on my website, I have a sort of disclaimer which reads:

Many of POV Pool’s events and videos are continually published on the POV Pool, YouTube Channel for mass consumption and viewing pleasure. Be that as it may, not every recorded match is technically perfect. They are recorded live, the commentary can sometimes be raw and unrehearsed. POV Pool strives to improve and promote more streaming regardless of its growing pains. When viewing these events, it is important to keep in mind that so far, POV Pool is basically a ‘one-man’ show who’s main goal is to seek new talent and continue the promotion of cue-sports.

Full page here: http://www.povpool.com/about-pov-pool/

In many ways, this is also the case for people like Alvin Nelson and most other independent streamers out there...

One think people need to keep in mind, yet I'm pretty sure that most will either not read this or completely forget...

Streaming pool can be a real high-wire act of different elements working against the program director at any given time which, can increase the stress level and pressure for the person doing the streaming.

1, There's usually no audio preview. Most of the time, commentators cannot hear themselves and are not aware when they can & cannot be heard. This is why you usually hear the commentator ask for feedback from the chat room about audio and video quality.

2. It is a thankless job more often than not - Most people do not know what it takes to put on a stream. They THINK they do, but they really do not. It's a LIVE broadcast which can and usually does go wrong. I don't think I've had one stream work out technically perfect. Furthermore, every technical fault is magnified by the 3 or 4 people who usually make the loudest noise about it on forums like these.

3. Streamers work VERY hard to bring you action (Usually for free). Alvin has a long history with the pool community and has cultivated a lot of good energy in the past. I am not excusing him from falling asleep at the wheel or generally feeling disgusted by whichever situation, that he feels he needs to 'go-off' or stray from the subjects covered during streams. To put it mildly, streaming pool for 16 hours a day, sometimes for as little as $100 or even for FREE can bring out the worst feelings in a person. As soon as they do not feel appreciated, they can go off. Inversely, when one thing goes wrong on the stream, they spectator tends to go off on the streamer.

So, if you want to help the situation, make a solid and constructive contribution to it.

Whenever someone gives me a hard time out there I tell them, "You can either beat me, or join me!"

I'm sure I'll probably regret chiming in here... AZ Billiards posters can be the harshest critics.
 
It's free. I'll take it any way I can get it. Mute button is free, too. I generally don't like any commentary...even the knowledgeable commentators get on my nerves after a while. I like Danny DiLiberto's war stories and he generally knows how the table lies. The only commentator I really liked and learned from was Grady. I miss his commentary, I never failed to learn something new listening to him call a game, especially one pocket. I really like listening to two pros commentate at the same time, debating a shot selection. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen much.

I don't know Alvin's deal, but he clearly loves what he does, and if he didn't do it, I'm sure it probably wouldn't get done. As inane as his chatter is, there are a lot of other guys who supposedly know what they're talking about that drive me up the wall.

Let's see if we can get the trolls can hurt his feelings and get him to quit. Yeah, that's the ticket...screw up yet another free, no-kidding good deal. :angry:
 
West Point 1987 said:
It's free. I'll take it any way I can get it. Mute button is free, too. I generally don't like any commentary...even the knowledgeable commentators get on my nerves after a while. I like Danny DiLiberto's war stories and he generally knows how the table lies. The only commentator I really liked and learned from was Grady. I miss his commentary, I never failed to learn something new listening to him call a game, especially one pocket. I really like listening to two pros commentate at the same time, debating a shot selection. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen much.

I don't know Alvin's deal, but he clearly loves what he does, and if he didn't do it, I'm sure it probably wouldn't get done. As inane as his chatter is, there are a lot of other guys who supposedly know what they're talking about that drive me up the wall.

Let's see if we can get the trolls can hurt his feelings and get him to quit. Yeah, that's the ticket...screw up yet another free, no-kidding good deal. :angry:
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I agree and disagree.

Yes, it was free.

But there seems to be a big difference between what someone thinks is "preparing" to commentate a match. I suspect this guy would be someone who bought the book for school, but never read it. Hell 15 minutes of prep would be great.

As others have noted, its about the match, the shot selection, etc. Sure a short story is fine occasionally, but we are here for the match. I knew neither player in this video and it would have been good to learn A LITTLE about each.

It really shows it is tough to commentate a match, and demonstrates how good JoeyA, Grady, Billy, JR Calvert, Danny really are doing it.

I honestly think I could do it, and could be really good at it, but I think I probably underestimate it too.

Ken
 
I think Alvin should just embrace his persona and run with it.
He could be the 'Chuck the security Guard' of pool.

and it's gonna be LIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
There is little else in the world called professional with so much amateur influence than pool. Rodney Dangerfield would be proud.

JC
 
And in that match (Nikos vs Can) his phone was vibrating multiple times, so effin annoying...then he was silent for a few minutes, thankfully, and probably went to answer his phone...his f***ing phone...

It's like you put a very stoned guy who does not know anything about pool, nor he gives 2 f**ks about the spectators or the game itself...terrible...and when he's talking, hes rambling nonsense like... LLLLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVVVEEEEEEEEEEEE....or some bs...

A world apart from Ultimate 10ball, or any other streams i watched, it's just s**t

I know it's free content, but imo, no one should treat his audience like idiots...
 
bdorman said:
1. Keep score. I'll even buy you the pencil and paper. I can't remember the last time I watched a commented one-pocket match where the commentator knew the ball count. If there's two commentators, they'll argue about it and both are wrong! Watch the SBE 2011 10-ball VanBoening-Pagulayan match: every time Alvin mentions the score, he's got it wrong.

2. Talk about the game that's going on (next shot, problem balls, etc) or shut up. Babbling on about anything else is like sitting in the stands with two drunks behind you babbling on about their life in pool. I'd love to hear about that over a drink...but not while I'm trying to enjoy a match

If you have to tell a story wait until the players are racking for the next game. If you want to invite someone on to plug their product, do it between racks.

3. Turn up the table volume and turn down the commentator volume. Hearing the sounds of the table makes the viewer feel like he's right there. But hearing the commentator 3 times as loud as the table is like...well, see #2 above. Buy a $99 audio mixer if you don't already have one.

4. Pay no attention to the chat room. It is very distracting, see #2 above. If I want to know what the chatters are saying, I'll watch the chat room.

5. Remember the rule: Silence is golden. Why do commentators think they always need to be talking? Talk when there is something important to say...otherwise let us hear the sounds of the table.
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Normally, I don't respond to individuals' personal opinion about what they like or don't like in a commentator or their style because each of us has our own preferences, as it should be.

I am listening to pool commentators now, more than ever before (to enhance my own commentary) and some of them work occasionally for ESPN, SKYSPORTS etc. and they have a steady stream of talk discussing EVERY shot, not just the "important" ones. They also sometimes discuss the fundamentals that the pro player is using or not using to make or not make the shot, even throwing in a story here and there.

I've been "guilty?" of letting the shot do the talking, more so in the past than now but I have to wonder if a steady discussion of precisely what is taking place on the table is better or worse than periods of silence where nothing is said. I kind of like offering my insights but the steady offering of information about each shot has my appreciation too.

Your number 5. is the only thing I am interested in. I wish that I knew what "most" listeners/viewers preferred.

JoeyA
 
West Point 1987 said:
It's free. I'll take it any way I can get it. Mute button is free, too. I generally don't like any commentary...even the knowledgeable commentators get on my nerves after a while. I like Danny DiLiberto's war stories and he generally knows how the table lies. The only commentator I really liked and learned from was Grady. I miss his commentary, I never failed to learn something new listening to him call a game, especially one pocket. I really like listening to two pros commentate at the same time, debating a shot selection. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen much.

I don't know Alvin's deal, but he clearly loves what he does, and if he didn't do it, I'm sure it probably wouldn't get done. As inane as his chatter is, there are a lot of other guys who supposedly know what they're talking about that drive me up the wall.

Let's see if we can get the trolls can hurt his feelings and get him to quit. Yeah, that's the ticket...screw up yet another free, no-kidding good deal. :angry:
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I have to agree with you about Alvin. I don't know him personally and have only listened to him a few times but he seems to be trying to create a new persona and he is definitely doing that. Who knows he may develop a great following.......

Your point about hurting his feelings and getting him to quit is spot on. I'm sure he isn't getting wealthy doing commentary and the stream is free.

So, is kicking the gift horse in the nut sack the smart thing to be doing if you want to listen to free live streams?
 
If all you whiners don't want to listen to him..hit the freaking MUTE button! Piss and moan about a free stream. ..get a life
 
If you guys feel like pissing and moaning about me, by the way, I'll be live this weekend!
 

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POVPOOL said:
If you guys feel like pissing and moaning about me, by the way, I'll be live this weekend!
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LOL.. good comeback. I think its just easy to complain on the internet so I wouldn't take all this to heart.

assuming POVPOOl is Alvin
 
Whether or not it is free should not be a factor in terms of this discussion.

If there is a problem of quality in terms of the equipment being less than state of the art then the fact that it is free is a point well made. The points in this discussion are not impacted by bad equipment but rather by a bad performance as a commentator.

I’ve heard Alvin do a good job of commentary up until he coined the phrase LIVE BABY and received a good response from the Chat room. It seemed to put his ego in overdrive and his commentary became less about the match at hand and more about him performing to his “fans”. I would agree that less “chat” and more play by play and color would be nice. I do like the fact that he acknowledges questions from the chat room and answers when he can.

That said, the gold standard in commentary is Jay Helfert and Danny Diliberto. The Ultimate 10 ball stream was greatly enhanced by their participation.

Just my 2 cents. (I know .......since Canada quit using the penny and went to rounding.....it is not worth anything)
 
It is better than nothing ,but there is allot of room for improvement.
I don't know Alvin but isn't there something that could be done to help him.

This thread should be about how to make things better, not put anyone down for there best efforts.

We are complaining about a free service, and not willing to help or support this in anyway.

No offence but there is some guys that have been around pool all there life and are now retired , that might be willing to help.

I know it takes a special person to commentate pool.
But there is no harm in trying. and with a little bit of support it could be a positive step for the game of pool.

MMike
Always keep a eye on the ball.
 
Good comments. Positive, constructive, cool.


mortuarymike-nv said:
It is better than nothing ,but there is allot of room for improvement.
I don't know Alvin but isn't there something that could be done to help him.

This thread should be about how to make things better, not put anyone down for there best efforts.

We are complaining about a free service, and not willing to help or support this in anyway.

No offence but there is some guys that have been around pool all there life and are now retired , that might be willing to help.

I know it takes a special person to commentate pool.
But there is no harm in trying. and with a little bit of support it could be a positive step for the game of pool.

MMike
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