Pulling up in the middle of a set when score is tied

[bud green]

I would never have guessed DO would do this.

Melrose can obviously play, Uwate mentioned him years ago as someone who can beat a strong Ghost game (10 or 12 ball) and I see his posts on Onepocket.org all the time.

But so what, its pool, people get in bad games all the time. Pay off, learn from it, and do some homework next time.

Only in pool would a top 3 player in the entire f-ing world pull a move like this.

I love this game, but we are seriously a bunch of bottom feeders in the sporting world.

Risk your reputation for less than a grand? Come on, man...

Oh well, much respect to Rob for just giving him the out and not wasting too much time with this BS once it got completely stupid. Life is too short.

 

[TX Poolnut]

What are your thoughts about two players racing to, say, 15, and when the score is 8-8, one wants to quit because he doesn't like the game anymore?

As long as the game is tied, is it okay to end? If it was an ahead set, then I could maybe understand pulling up if nobody got ahead, but with a race to 15, what do you think if the score is, say, 8 to 8?

My opinion is that if a game is agreed apon and someone quits before the game is over, then the other player wins.

I think a fair analogy would be baseball. Both teams know that the game is played for 9 innings. If a team decides to quit after the 5th inning, the other team automatically wins, regardless of the score.

 

[richiebalto]

What are your thoughts about two players racing to, say, 15, and when the score is 8-8, one wants to quit because he doesn't like the game anymore?

As long as the game is tied, is it okay to end? If it was an ahead set, then I could maybe understand pulling up if nobody got ahead, but with a race to 15, what do you think if the score is, say, 8 to 8?

This is something that is never suppose to happen, you never ever heard of this happening back 20 30 years ago, things have changed so much in the pool world that nothing suprises me anymore.

That being said, this happen to me about 10 years ago JEN, i was playing little pauly from penn, i was getting the last 2 playing 9 ball race to 11 for 500.

Pauly was being backed by a pair of Baltimore dealer (not card dealers either) but these guys were always backing pool players without ever any trouble ever, until now, iam all by myself.

Now i jump up 3-0 and the main man tells his partner to grab the post money because iam stealing in the match he says, so the big man grabs the post and i said what the ****s going on you cant take the money, big man says i can do what i want (we all know he is carrying) so at first he acted like he was going to take my post money , until i jump up and say, its alrite you can have your money back, but you are nobody is takeing my money, so the big man did give me my money back, but he did keep his post.

After that they got no action anymore for a couple of weeks and then the big man came up to me in hot shots one nite and gave me his 500 and said he made a misstake.

But if they want to keep all the money there was nothing i could do, thats a bad spot to be in!

 

[richiebalto]

What are your thoughts about two players racing to, say, 15, and when the score is 8-8, one wants to quit because he doesn't like the game anymore?

As long as the game is tied, is it okay to end? If it was an ahead set, then I could maybe understand pulling up if nobody got ahead, but with a race to 15, what do you think if the score is, say, 8 to 8?

.

Sorry guys same post.

 

[Tommy Joe]

I don't see how that would come up LOL, if the score is tied, the game is good no? Unless one of the players was pretty obviously goofing around and playing to miss.

Even if it's close by a game or two it's pretty much even.

Maybe someone decided they really can't play for as much as they said they would? Adjust the money in that case.

Unless you're referring only to players of the highest order, I can definitely see such a thing happening and I can see myself in the scenario. I am not ashamed to say I'm a quitter. I don't quit ahead, but I've been in games I wanted to quit. I believe unless both agree, the quitter forfeits.

But I am responding more to your comment about not being able to see it happening. Maybe with most it wouldn't. But with me it would. I remember one time I was playing this Mexican guy named Henry at my home room. I had him hooked. But I knew I wasn't playing well, that I was lucky to be ahead - or at least I felt that way.

It was funny. I'm getting backed and I've got the guy hooked for like a hundred bucks which to me was huge money at the time. I'd get half, $50 for a guy with no money, more than good enough. So Henry is over there yapping in Spanish with his backer. I can see he's pleading with the guy to stick with him. And all the while I'm standing at the table secretly wishing the guy wouldn't stick with him. I wanted out. Here I am, I've got a guy hooked, and I'm hoping he quits. Yes, once I was told by some guy in a bar who wanted to play for more than I wanted to play for, "You're a good player - but you just don't have the heart or the balls", and when he said heart, he pounded his heart, and when he said balls he pounded his balls - accidentally a tad too hard. It was funny. But it was true. Every word he said was true.

Anyway, I'm praying for Henry's horse to back away, but maybe I'm the only one who knows it. Finally the backer relents, I can see it, and here comes Henry for more. The life was sucked out of me. All I wanted was the $50. Henry wound up getting his hundred back plus a hundred more. In an odd way I am proud of this story. Not so much proud of the story as proud of having the guts to admit it. I don't have the heart and balls? Hah. I'm one of the few who admits he doesn't have either one,- and that my friend takes both.

TJ

 

[Montana Mike]

With the money posted I could say my favorite line, "the money is already in deposit" or something like that.

 

[jay helfert]

I just got home from Tunica and am reading this thread now. Dennis did borrow money from me yesterday because he went broke in the casino. I loaned him the money in case he made a game. He called me and told me he was in action, but he didn't know who he was gambling with, just some fat guy is what he said. I was running the Bank Pool ring game so I didn't really have time to talk or find out the details.

After the ring game was over someone told me what happened, that Dennis had made a bad game and quit. I didn't have all the details so I went to his room to talk to him. He told me about the game and who he was playing. He reminded me that two times he had made games and people had quit on him and it's true. Twice he was playing ahead sets (for serious money) and his opponent quit when they were even. Dennis did not want to quit either time. So this is something that he has learned over here from our pool players.

I explained to him that this was different since he was playing a Race to 15 and not an ahead set. I don't think he really understood the difference that someone could quit on him when they were even and he couldn't do the same.

Rob, you haven't always been such an angel yourself and have given me a hard time on here more than once, but in this case I have to agree with you. Dennis was wrong to quit for whatever reason. Granted he still had a chance to win since the score was tied, but that doesn't make it right. He told me he gave you $150 as a settlement. I told him that he got off easy and a fair settlement might have been more like $500. Even though I wasn't involved in the bet (in fact if I had been there I wouldn't have let him make that game with you), I am willing to send you $350 more to settle this with you fairly.

If you send me your address (my e-mail is jayhelfert@yahoo.com) I will send a check to you. I feel bad for Dennis due to the fact that he has been taken advantage of a couple of times and now he doesn't trust the pool players here. That is no excuse for what he did and I stressed that to him. Sometimes you just have to take your lumps and learn from it. Dennis is a great guy and a terrific player and gambler, but he's still young and may make a mistake once in a while. So please cut him some slack. Thanks

 

[thebighurt]

I just got home from Tunica and am reading this thread now. Dennis did borrow money from me yesterday because he went broke in the casino. I loaned him the money in case he made a game. He called me and told me he was in action, but he didn't know who he was gambling with, just some fat guy is what he said. I was running the Bank Pool ring game so I didn't really have time to talk or find out the details.

After the ring game was over someone told me what happened, that Dennis had made a bad game and quit. I didn't have all the details so I went to his room to talk to him. He told me about the game and who he was playing. He reminded me that two times he had made games and people had quit on him and it's true. Twice he was playing ahead sets (for serious money) and his opponent quit when they were even. Dennis did not want to quit either time. So this is something that he has learned over here from our pool players.

I explained to him that this was different since he was playing a Race to 15 and not an ahead set. I don't think he really understood the difference that someone could quit on him when they were even and he couldn't do the same.

Rob, you haven't always been such an angel yourself and have given me a hard time on here more than once, but in this case I have to agree with you. Dennis was wrong to quit for whatever reason. Granted he still had a chance to win since the score was tied, but that doesn't make it right. He told me he gave you $150 as a settlement. I told him that he got off easy and a fair settlement might have been more like $500. Even though I wasn't involved in the bet (in fact if I had been there I wouldn't have let him make that game with you), I am willing to send you $350 more to settle this with you fairly.

If you send me your address (my e-mail is jayhelfert@yahoo.com) I will send a check to you. I feel bad for Dennis due to the fact that he has been taken advantage of a couple of times and now he doesn't trust the pool players here. That is no excuse for what he did and I stressed that to him. Sometimes you just have to take your lumps and learn from it. Dennis is a great guy and a terrific player and gambler, but he's still young and may make a mistake once in a while. So please cut him some slack. Thanks

I do not want your money Jay. Seeing how Dennis just got 2nd in the 9 ball event and seeing how you just explained everything to him and what a great guy he is. If it is Dennis' $ 350 I will accept it otherwise I don't want it. The bottom line is he pulled a move and its simple as that. He was trying to shark me because after I warned him and the entire room for the 3rd time and took the money down he couldn't wait to put his cue back together. I realize he stays at your house sometimes and you like rubbing elbows with him that's all well and good. I was expecting you to chime in at some point in this thread. The bottom line is he thought he was stealing from "the fat guy" and he got caught. I understand you sticking up for your buddy but all the top players in the room were disgusted by what he did, even the ones that bet on him were saying he forfeited and shouldn't get a dime back. Only one guy had a problem with it and it was because he didn't want to pay off his $ 100 side bet on a forfeit. As I already said I pulled Dennis outside and he cried and whined and I did feel bad for him so i let him go for $ 150. What me and about 6 other people didn't like was after I let him out about 10 minutes later he was a real smart ass about it out in the hallway.
P.S. if you think "he had a chance to win" Dennis and I can play the same game and make it a race to 25 for $ 20,000 at Derby City and you can be front row and see if he has a chance to win at the game.

 

[backplaying]

I would never have guessed DO would do this.

Melrose can obviously play, Uwate mentioned him years ago as someone who can beat a strong Ghost game (10 or 12 ball) and I see his posts on Onepocket.org all the time.

But so what, its pool, people get in bad games all the time. Pay off, learn from it, and do some homework next time.

Only in pool would a top 3 player in the entire f-ing world pull a move like this.

I love this game, but we are seriously a bunch of bottom feeders in the sporting world.

Risk your reputation for less than a grand? Come on, man...

Oh well, much respect to Rob for just giving him the out and not wasting too much time with this BS once it got completely stupid. Life is too short.

Good post, and Dennis must have really laid it down right to get Rob to let him out for a buck fifty! Knowing the game they made, I would have said 750 would have been getting out light!

 

[JAM]

I do not want your money Jay. Seeing how Dennis just got 2nd in the 9 ball event and seeing how you just explained everything to him and what a great guy he is. If it is Dennis' $ 350 I will accept it otherwise I don't want it. The bottom line is he pulled a move and its simple as that. He was trying to shark me because after I warned him and the entire room for the 3rd time and took the money down he couldn't wait to put his cue back together. I realize he stays at your house sometimes and you like rubbing elbows with him that's all well and good. I was expecting you to chime in at some point in this thread. The bottom line is he thought he was stealing from "the fat guy" and he got caught. I understand you sticking up for your buddy but all the top players in the room were disgusted by what he did, even the ones that bet on him were saying he forfeited and shouldn't get a dime back. Only one guy had a problem with it and it was because he didn't want to pay off his $ 100 side bet on a forfeit. As I already said I pulled Dennis outside and he cried and whined and I did feel bad for him so i let him go for $ 150. What me and about 6 other people didn't like was after I let him out about 10 minutes later he was a real smart ass about it out in the hallway.
P.S. if you think "he had a chance to win" Dennis and I can play the same game and make it a race to 25 for $ 20,000 at Derby City and you can be front row and see if he has a chance to win at the game.

I love a nice bark! Doubt you will get the game, but I enjoy reading the proposition.

You're a good man. If anything, this situation just made your stock as a pool player go up.

And FWIW, fat guys usually have the biggest hearts, are the best fathers and husbands, and are generally well respected by all their peers. Your post reflects that you practice good pool etiquette. It's a trait that most young players don't have. It's an old-school thing. Good for you.

Now that I know your name, you have a new fan. I'll be rooting for you! :happydance:

 

[backplaying]

Rob, bottom line was, you trapped him and he put the yellow flag up a little early. Of course he learned it from Americans, so, it's ok as Jay claims. Jay, have you ever pulled for a American over a pinoy in a match, ever ? I also noticed how you said you would have knocked the game if you would have been there. I have always respected you in the pool world but this is one case you can't blame a American player! Dennis is a top player and shouldn't need you as his baby sitter.

 

[JAM]

Rob, bottom line was, you trapped him and he put the yellow flag up a little early. Of course he learned it from Americans, so, it's ok as Jay claims. Jay, have you ever pulled for a American over a pinoy in a match, ever ? I also noticed how you said you would have knocked the game if you would have been there. I have always respected you in the pool world but this is one case you can't blame a American player! Dennis is a top player and shouldn't need you as his baby sitter.

In all fairness to Jay, I would have knocked the game as well. Jay and DO are friends, and Jay backs him from time to time. They're partners on the road. That's different than knocking a stranger, I think.

It's a tricky situation to be in. I have seen several people actually leave the pool room when a player they know walks in to look for action, to avoid the knock.

In this situation, Jay and Dennis are friends. That is why I think it is different. If Jay didn't knock the game, he'd be mad at his money to back it, don't you think? :grin-square:

 

[ac11]

Rob, bottom line was, you trapped him and he put the yellow flag up a little early. Of course he learned it from Americans, so, it's ok as Jay claims. Jay, have you ever pulled for a American over a pinoy in a match, ever ? I also noticed how you said you would have knocked the game if you would have been there. I have always respected you in the pool world but this is one case you can't blame a American player! Dennis is a top player and shouldn't need you as his baby sitter.

I Agree...even if you've had this done to you a bunch of times don't do it to other people...be good on your bets! Don't be the same guy you were pissed at when they did that to you.

 

[thebighurt]

Since Jay didn't respond to my last post and has logged in since it I will take this as I expected.. Dennis didn't learn anything and had no intentions of doing right. Jay was obviously trying to just save face for Dennis. That's fine.. I didn't expect dennis to want to do the right thing. Im just not going to let Jay come on here trying to cover up for his meal ticket and blame americans for Dennis' actions and than disappear!! what a frigging joke.

 

[thebighurt]

In all fairness to Jay, I would have knocked the game as well. Jay and DO are friends, and Jay backs him from time to time. They're partners on the road. That's different than knocking a stranger, I think.

It's a tricky situation to be in. I have seen several people actually leave the pool room when a player they know walks in to look for action, to avoid the knock.

In this situation, Jay and Dennis are friends. That is why I think it is different. If Jay didn't knock the game, he'd be mad at his money to back it, don't you think? :grin-square:

Jay did not back this whole bet, an older guy in the room from I believe from Tennessee put up alot if not all of it. By the way Jay Dennis did not give me $ 150 for a settlement, I was nice enough to give him back $ 850 for a settlement. I had the money and if I did what everyone in the room said I should do Dennis wouldn't have gotten a dime back.

 

[richiebalto]

Jay did not back this whole bet, an older guy in the room from I believe from Tennessee put up alot if not all of it. By the way Jay Dennis did not give me $ 150 for a settlement, I was nice enough to give him back $ 850 for a settlement. I had the money and if I did what everyone in the room said I should do Dennis wouldn't have gotten a dime back.

Its alrite when DO is destroying oponent after oponent on the pool table , but when someone has the nuts on him oh no the world is coming to the end.

They found out the big man can play, then wanted no parts of that action!

And i cant believe that DO had no idea that Rob could play, the big man is no spring chicken.

So chalk one up for the good guy, btw the next time someone thinks a fat man cant play better take a real good look at history!

 

[bankoutallday]

Jay did not back this whole bet, an older guy in the room from I believe from Tennessee put up alot if not all of it. By the way Jay Dennis did not give me $ 150 for a settlement, I was nice enough to give him back $ 850 for a settlement. I had the money and if I did what everyone in the room said I should do Dennis wouldn't have gotten a dime back.

You sir were just too nice about it and he took advantage of your kindness. You should take Jay's money, it was a sincere offer.

When I would go to an event I have at least 3K to play with and will lost it to anybody there. Played some great sets over the years too. Last time out at SBE it was just a room full of pirates and thieves. Now, I just don't know if it's worth the risk, there are a lot of scammers out there. Didn't ever think Dennis Orcullo would be on that list.

 

[jay helfert]

Since Jay didn't respond to my last post and has logged in since it I will take this as I expected.. Dennis didn't learn anything and had no intentions of doing right. Jay was obviously trying to just save face for Dennis. That's fine.. I didn't expect dennis to want to do the right thing. Im just not going to let Jay come on here trying to cover up for his meal ticket and blame americans for Dennis' actions and than disappear!! what a frigging joke.

Rob, now you're out of line. Maybe you should read my post again. I said very clearly that what Dennis did was wrong and I made a sincere offer to you as some form of restitution. Dennis will not be coming on here to answer you. He does not post online anywhere.

To say that I like to "rub elbows" with Dennis is also an insult. He is a close personal friend of mine who often stays at my house when he is in Los Angeles. We do many other things together besides hang around a pool tournament. When I'm in the Philippines I always visit with him and his family. Maybe you have no friends so you wouldn't understand.

As far as him being my "meal ticket" that is also a misassumption. I can take care of myself just fine with or without anyone else's help. I have no reason to "disappear" either. I made you a sincere offer and you turned it around to make me a bad guy. What you said to me did not dignify a response. You seem to have a lot of incorrect assumptions about me, but why am I not surprised. You're showing your true colors now, a small man in a big body.

 

[scsuxci]

What are your thoughts about two players racing to, say, 15, and when the score is 8-8, one wants to quit because he doesn't like the game anymore?

As long as the game is tied, is it okay to end? If it was an ahead set, then I could maybe understand pulling up if nobody got ahead, but with a race to 15, what do you think if the score is, say, 8 to 8?

If he doesn't like the game,he should stop,
pay the guy and leave.To quit is a forfeit and a loss.
If a car race starts and suddenly it starts raining and one of the drivers
hate the road conditions,doesn't mean the race stops.Same thing in this case,
the race shouldn't stop.If you pull out, you lose.

 

[thebighurt]

Rob, now you're out of line. Maybe you should read my post again. I said very clearly that what Dennis did was wrong and I made a sincere offer to you as some form of restitution. Dennis will not be coming on here to answer you. He does not post online anywhere.

To say that I like to "rub elbows" with Dennis is also an insult. He is a close personal friend of mine who often stays at my house when he is in Los Angeles. We do many other things together besides hang around a pool tournament. When I'm in the Philippines I always visit with him and his family. Maybe you have no friends so you wouldn't understand.

As far as him being my "meal ticket" that is also a misassumption. I can take care of myself just fine with or without anyone else's help. I have no reason to "disappear" either. I made you a sincere offer and you turned it around to make me a bad guy. What you said to me did not dignify a response. You seem to have a lot of incorrect assumptions about me, but why am I not surprised. You're showing your true colors now, a small man in a big body.

Like I said Jay its real simple.. If its Dennis' money I will accept it if not what you said to him didn't mean a damn thing obviously. Jay you are the ones showing your true colors and it is evidenced by other peoples responses on here not just mine. For you to blame Dennis' actions on american players because he learned it from them is an absolute joke.. I have many more friends than you Jay and I dont have to put them in tournaments and let them stay at my house to have them as my friend.

All you have to do is answer a simple question is it going to be your money or Dennis'? No need to dance around the question. If it is Dennis' I will accept it because it shows he knows he was wrong, if it is yours it just shows that he doesn't give two shits and he won't hesitate to do it again and I don't want the money. All that would be is attempt for you to save face for your buddy. Dennis just got 2nd place in the 9 ball tourney so the $ 350 should be no problem for him if he indeed gives a crap.

It is amazing that the only one on here defending Dennis is you Jay.. ALL of the PROS said what he did was the creepiest move they have ever seen especially by someone touted as the world's BEST MONEY player.. I guess it is easy to keep that title.. If hes in a close match just quit and you never lose. The guy has gambled all over the world so for you to use the "he didn't know what he was doing excuse is unbelievable" and " american players have quit on him so he learned it from us" are you serious Jay?

Now then you did make an offer but I want it to be Dennis' money not yours. You sending the money does not prove Dennis knows he was wrong and it wont stop him from doing again to someone else. If it is his money I will post a thread praising you for talking to and getting through to Dennis and if it is his money and everyone will know he knows he made a mistake and he wont ever be able to do it again. Its the safest thing for dennis anyway, if he did that to someone else they might have taken his head off.