Bonus Ball is Alive and will be kicking ...

cardiac kid said:
That may be true but I know you :thumbup:! See you Tuesday afternoon. Hope you're well.
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Lyn
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I am tied up with other activities. I am checking into the hotel Rio on Wednesday around 5 PM and then will be heading to South point casino for a meeting of Central Committee Cembers of the Clark County Republican party. From Thursday onwards I will be around the BCA Gala..
 
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PoolSharkAllen said:
IMO, the Bonus Ball supporters have their collective heads buried in the sand as they do not understand what is required to successfully run a business. :rolleyes:

Sopadre explained this very nicely in the Bogus Ball thread so I'll repeat it here:
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I don`t think the Bonus Ball owners have a legal duty to explain their business plan to anybody other than their investors and the Financial institutions that loaned the money.
 
vagabond said:
I don`t think the Bonus Ball owners have a legal duty to explain their business plan to anybody other than their investors and the Financial institutions that loaned the money.
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Exactly. And I guess that all the business wizards here conveniently forget that many startups run in the red for years before they turn a profit.
 
JB Cases said:
Exactly. And I guess that all the business wizards here conveniently forget that many startups run in the red for years before they turn a profit.
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Many of the BB players are just about broke and cannot afford to work for free in this start-up venture.

For you hopeful business wizards, here's what Jay Helfert had to say about it:
jay helfert said:
You guys are now saying publicly what I was saying privately from the get go. I never liked it, especially when they decided to start right on top of existing events. I didn't like the smell of it from day one; the way the PR was handled (beyond amateur), the whole story about construction delays, the snub of everyone and anyone in the billiard industry, the pontificating about this great new game and how it would save pool. None of it made sense money wise or common sense wise.

When I found out that rich investors North of the border were funding it, it all began to make sense. The players were pawns in this scenario. They were necessary to make it all look good, the window dressing if you will. And the first ones to get screwed when it began to unravel (as in now!).

Some of them may think there is still hope for a completed first season, but I would call that the longest of long shots. If they all get paid what they are currently owed next week, I would call that a win for them. I don't know Larry and don't care to, but I've known many "Larry's" in my life. Men with a dream looking to fulfill it with other people's money. HELLO!
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JB Cases said:
Exactly. And I guess that all the business wizards here conveniently forget that many startups run in the red for years before they turn a profit.
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Comparing BB to a tech, biotech, or service industry start up is comparing apples and oranges. Compare it to other semi pro/ minor league sports start ups. Like arena football, hockey, or soccer.

I guess all the people I know who run businesses that actually make payroll and shake their head at the whole escapade are too small minded to understand the brilliance of burning through a couple hundred grand a month in an industry that never in its history has demonstrated the ability to generate enough money to pay for the investment and provide a return.

MMA had boxing as something to shoot at. Soccer has the big four as a goal. All of them proven markets that show if you do it right the money is there. The closest thing I can think of for pool is bowling. Im sure there is a line of VC geniuses looking to invest a couple mil with the hope of making some of that big ass bowling money.

For the most part its an exercise in theory for me. I think about ways to build a sustainable pro tour a lot. A whole lot. So call me and others who actually look how shit works in the world we live in wizards or haters or whatever you want. Its all bullshit in the end anyway because right now we are right where it seems we always end up. A bunch of broken promises and people owed money.
 
JCIN said:
Comparing BB to a tech, biotech, or service industry start up is comparing apples and oranges. Compare it to other semi pro/ minor league sports start ups. Like arena football, hockey, or soccer.

I guess all the people I know who run businesses that actually make payroll and shake their head at the whole escapade are too small minded to understand the brilliance of burning through a couple hundred grand a month in an industry that never in its history has demonstrated the ability to generate enough money to pay for the investment and provide a return.

MMA had boxing as something to shoot at. Soccer has the big four as a goal. All of them proven markets that show if you do it right the money is there. The closest thing I can think of for pool is bowling. Im sure there is a line of VC geniuses looking to invest a couple mil with the hope of making some of that big ass bowling money.

For the most part its an exercise in theory for me. I think about ways to build a sustainable pro tour a lot. A whole lot. So call me and others who actually look how shit works in the world we live in wizards or haters or whatever you want. Its all bullshit in the end anyway because right now we are right where it seems we always end up. A bunch of broken promises and people owed money.
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bowling was bought by 3 guys from microsoft for around 5M and they turned it around.

I know Dana White and the whole back story of UFC, well perhaps not the whole story but a good bit of it, blood sports sell. boxing was shot, something new was needed, the Frittia brothers had the cash, connections and forsight to hire Dana. they couldnt lose with those 3 things.

I dont see that happening in pool, nothing is lined up right for that to happen. meaning blow up into a big or even mid size sport, thats profitable. Sure pool is played by more people than bowling but that means F all when it comes to making it profitable(other than for a hand full of people ) and they aint getting rich.


i think the solution is enjoy pool for what it is, like your productions they are great, fun and make sense. If someday something happens and it can be scaled up-great, if not, enjoy it as it stands.
 
JCIN said:
Comparing BB to a tech, biotech, or service industry start up is comparing apples and oranges. Compare it to other semi pro/ minor league sports start ups. Like arena football, hockey, or soccer.

I guess all the people I know who run businesses that actually make payroll and shake their head at the whole escapade are too small minded to understand the brilliance of burning through a couple hundred grand a month in an industry that never in its history has demonstrated the ability to generate enough money to pay for the investment and provide a return.

MMA had boxing as something to shoot at. Soccer has the big four as a goal. All of them proven markets that show if you do it right the money is there. The closest thing I can think of for pool is bowling. Im sure there is a line of VC geniuses looking to invest a couple mil with the hope of making some of that big ass bowling money.

For the most part its an exercise in theory for me. I think about ways to build a sustainable pro tour a lot. A whole lot. So call me and others who actually look how shit works in the world we live in wizards or haters or whatever you want. Its all bullshit in the end anyway because right now we are right where it seems we always end up. A bunch of broken promises and people owed money.
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Not disputing your analysis but Ravi is right. You, me and everyone else is not the outside looking in.

Even the players themselves probably don't have a lot more insight into the finances than we do.

My point is and was let them do their thing at this point. If it crashes and burns then so be it. If it succeeds then great.

And I have known many small businesses that have gone for years on investments, angel funding, loans, and owners capital before turning a profit.

I have to make payroll every month too.

If BB were counting on streaming revenue then of course they were stupid to do so. But I think there has to be a bigger prize they are after. Otherwise this really is all a foolish dream.
 
Ravi - aren't you the one that told all of us months ago that the cameras in the BB Arena were $300K a piece. Are you getting your info from the same source now?

I do hear that there is a new investor in BB - I can't believe it. Not that I don't believe there is a new investor, I just can't believe that someone would dump more money into it.

And yes JB, the government actually gives you 5 years to operate in the red. With depreciation of assets, etc. most have their accountants take care of and advantage of that. But they do not operate with expenses in the red. When that happens, if they did not have the fore thought to start up with enough capital (again - money in the register), then they close down.

I also can't help to think about how all that popcorn has now gone stale and they will have to make all new batches when they start back up. The costs keep piling up.
 
watchez said:
I also can't help to think about how all that popcorn has now gone stale and they will have to make all new batches when they start back up. The costs keep piling up.
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At this point, it might break the bank! lmao
 
cleary said:
Has everyone been paid yet or what?
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The line I got was everyone is supposed to be paid by Tuesday.

But then everyone was supposed to be paid every Monday so who knows?

It doesn't seem to bother the players enough to speak up about it and all anyone is saying is how awesome BB will be so I'm done worrying about it. If they dont give a shit about getting jerked around why should any of us.
 
watchez said:
Ravi - aren't you the one that told all of us months ago that the cameras in the BB Arena were $300K a piece. Are you getting your info from the same source now?

I do hear that there is a new investor in BB - I can't believe it. Not that I don't believe there is a new investor, I just can't believe that someone would dump more money into it.

And yes JB, the government actually gives you 5 years to operate in the red. With depreciation of assets, etc. most have their accountants take care of and advantage of that. But they do not operate with expenses in the red. When that happens, if they did not have the fore thought to start up with enough capital (again - money in the register), then they close down.

I also can't help to think about how all that popcorn has now gone stale and they will have to make all new batches when they start back up. The costs keep piling up.
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Thanks for the lemonade stand example. Of course if the money is all gone then a business closes.

My point was and is that many startups operate for YEARS without any or very little actual revenue while they are working on how to monetize their product.

Facebook, founded in April 2004, ran with losses and about 750 million in investment until September 2009 when it finally started turning a profit. Peter Thiel was in teh first round of investment, got 10% of FB for $500,000.

Microsoft bought 1.6% for $240 MILLION a few years later.

Currently FB is worth about $67 Billion give or take a few. How does that initial $500,000 investment for 10% look now?

Point being that no one knows what the deal is. For all we know Larry is close to closing a deal to sell 40 episodes of Bonus Ball to the Travel Channel for $20 million. Who knows? I mean I know it's fun to speculate and call people whom you don't know idiots and losers and scammers (not saying you said this Steve) and put them down in ever malicious was possible but at the end of the day you can only be right or wrong about your speculations and whichever that is doesn't mean a thing.

I was wrong, shrug shoulders and move on. I was right yippie I am an oracle. Ok, tell me the lottery numbers please.

You all act like it's some sort of big deal when it's not. Trudeau's thing was actually a big deal. $350,000, $500,000 purses, MILLIONS of dollars in play and promised. That's life changing money for a lot of people. He wanted sincerely to take over pro pool worldwide and have the best 150 players on the planet locked up and the next 1000 paying handsomely trying to get in. And the thing is that IF Truedeau would have really bankrolled it for two full years he might have pulled it off. He might have gotten it on TV, found someone to sell it to, and set the IPT on a good path.

That was the sort of venture that it was worth getting super mad about when it imploded.

Bonus Ball not so much in my opinion. So the pros moved to Vegas. Who cares? They move around all the time. They are adults capable of making their own decisions. if BB fails and they miss a few paychecks then so what? Pick up your life and move on because it's not like they have had much better going for them if BB didn't exist.

Sure they have the same tournaments, same circuit, rising expenses and lower prize money year on year. Maybe Barry will pay out this year maybe he won't....

So why don't we all stop ragging on Bonus Ball for a while and see if they make it. Let it run without the constant state of putting it down.

Honestly what could it hurt to withold the negativity for the rest of the year and just enjoy the game? I mean that wouldn't be as much fun, yin/yang and all that but who knows, maybe just maybe it would be really freaking cool if some executive were cruising around and landed on AZ and instead of forty threads knocking BB and the investors there were five positive threads about it. There is so much of the what's wrong with pool attitude here and maybe we should take a little ownership of what's wrong with pool since it seems sometimes that more than 50% of us can't wait to knock and strangle the baby just because we don't like how it looks.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong and frequently am but I feel much happier with a positive outlook on life than a negative one.
 
JCIN said:
The line I got was everyone is supposed to be paid by Tuesday.

But then everyone was supposed to be paid every Monday so who knows?

It doesn't seem to bother the players enough to speak up about it and all anyone is saying is how awesome BB will be so I'm done worrying about it. If they dont give a shit about getting jerked around why should any of us.
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Exactly. These are adults (some behaviors excepted) who are capable of making their own decisions. Let them bear the weight or enjoy the fruits of those decisions.

It's their job let them deal with it.

Our job is to spectate.
 
JB Cases said:
Thanks for the lemonade stand example. Of course if the money is all gone then a business closes.

Facebook, founded in April 2004, ran with losses and about 750 million in investment until September 2009 when it finally started turning a profit. Peter Thiel was in teh first round of investment, got 10% of FB for $500,000.
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Which do you think BB compares to more - a lemonade stand or Facebook?

After you give your honest answer, I rest my case.
 
All these comparisons to facebook, microsoft etc...

Those companies blew up because they found an untapped niche and milked it.
What's pool's untapped niche? Is there anyone out there who wants to watch pool but can't?

There's thousands of hours of free footage on youtube and some of it like BClub is fairly
professionally produced. Or if you want something more timely, you can pay for accustats
and TAR matches. There are several free and cheap streams.

I know they are not obligated to share their business plan with anyone, but whatever it is..
it's gotta hinge on getting people to watch pool (and pay for it) who otherwise can't do so.
Does anyone here feel like "man, I wish I had some pool to watch, but there's just nothing on"?

The only thing I feel like I want to see, but cannot see often enough, is seeing pros play in person.
And even that wish isn't that hard to fulfill. Got to do it last weekend, at no charge.

To me, that's the fundamental flaw, even if you execute very well (like recent TAR matches)
there just aren't that many customers starved for the product they're looking to sell.
 
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