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Kd
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Kd
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Larry Chiborak???
- Thread starter kittykat
- Start date
Mark's late fees where a subject when BB announced they would not run in July. All the BB players who hadn't entered the tournament decided to do so. There were MANY complains outside of facebook.
We never heard as many complains the previous years because the same players paid in advance, having no alternative.
If I had a million to put up in a project that costs at least 2 millions, I would not do it, quite simply.
I would not be so harsh if the way they entered had made sense. Competition the way they played it was the worst possible. No sanctioning of the exisiting bodies, no debate, which in the end put the players in the middle.
So, IMO, Chiborak and his peers advertised a dream scenario where pro players would 'get paid to play and not pay to play', which is impossible in the current economic state and current status of our sport.
I feel bad for the players who believed in the impossible, but I do not feel bad for the people who created the dream and explained how and why it was the future.
Competing this way against you would be opening a shop, advertising a brand new way to create cue cases and sell them for $25 a piece, claiming to have a better quality than you. And then not delivering, because of course it doesn't make any sense.
So again, the players got screwed. And we all know there is no way this project - as it is - will come back, ever. Just because it does not make any business sense, period.
And last thing, where do you know that Chiborak ever invested his own money? Do you know this for sure? He has definitely invested a lot of time and effort, but also claimed to have many people invested financially.
Anybody who invests this much time and effort would deserve a fair chance, but again, not the way they acted. They would have to start by blending in the industry, work with others and apologize to a few people, starting with the players.
The very thing BB and the ABP were advertising, they couldn't produce. They were supposed to create a stream of revenue for pro players, and they left them with debts. No statements, no apologies, nothing more than what many of us feared: a worse debacle than the IPT.
Go Bonus Ball!
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Your posts are always right on! Tap, tap, tap. Bravo! :clapping::clapping::clapping:
If it were my business model to start something, with end goal to sell something...
Time will tell. This story has another chapter. IMHO of course, lol.
Nobody thinks he can predict the future. But HIS JOB is to protect players and assure that money is there. The ABP started over the us open 9ball not paying and they refused to play unless the money was posted. Why not the same for bonus ball? In Johnny's position as the ABP leader, it wouldn't be hard to demand proof that this thing was funded for more than 6 weeks. The fact is, many involved knew it was a VERY LONG SHOT and still rolled the dice for themselves and others. And the puppet masters will make out fine in the deal either way. But the players who moved to Vegas on the dream of a steady paycheck and are members of the ABP should be LIVID and demand answers from Johnny.
Perfect summary of the situation.
Yep, so true and so sad. :frown:
No, his job is to represent the players. I like how you assert that Johnny or any player is really in a position to DEMAND anything. Sure it's a good idea and part of his due diligence to ensure the proper funding for payouts but sometimes you have play the cards you have and take the best of only a few bad options. Players really don't have too many options right now do they? Secondly, it is difficult for Johnny to p,ay the hand when one side doesn't have all their cards on the table.
PErhaps you are considering a different definition of 'demand' then that which Cleary assigns.
The ABP has requirements of the entities it chooses to 'support'. It did not hold the ABP to the same standard as the US Open.
I don't think the promises Chiborak made and the failure he delivered can be justified by saying the players came to the table from a poor position. There was an agreement and only one side lived up to it.
The ABP is an united assembly of international professional billiard players. The ABP was formed to be the voice of players worldwide in order to assist in tournament and industry challenges. ABP directives include standardizing equipment, rules, ensuring the timely payment of prize money, assisting promoters and sponsors, and the overall protection and security of professional players. The ABP works to improve the sport of billiards and jointly works with associations, promoters, sponsors and players alike in the joint goal of growing the sport and providing security to all involved. Membership of the ABP includes players from Europe, Asia, and the United States.
Without the players, they have no league. Without the money, they don't have the players. The players have the upper hand. It's the ABP's job to assure the money is there. They didn't... or they did and kept quiet.
And this whole Chiborak failure is indicative of the ABP's selective enforcement of its own requirements, or the ABP hi-ups being sure they 'got theirs'.
Either way, the ABP is effectively worthless to pro-pool.
Almost any sport/game should not be run by a player/player's. Pool has shown us by history that players running pool doesn't work. I don't think we will ever see an outside of pool president/commissioner run pool. Players and promoters want too much power for that. Johnnyt
To say what they should or shouldn't do is simply impossible, and just a "wild guess"
The fact of the matter is they are adults and understand risk/reward as well as any of us do. To say what they should or shouldn't do is simply impossible, and just a "wild guess" at best. They all know about gambling, it's been a big part of their lives.
At no time during my interaction with Bonus Ball was it represented that Johnny's "job" was to "protect players and make sure their money was there".....this was not his job description, he was clearly trying to promote the game and recruit the players.
There's no absolute guarantees when it comes to business ventures, Donald Trump has stiffed casino investors for millions through the years and he's known as a respected business man. Business ventures have risk/reward factors and are essentially "gambling"......take a look at the Stock Market and you'll see the sample example, and businesses are going bankrupt in the USA every day.
No one has any problems with Johnny's integrity except people that have nothing to do with him personally or business wise. He's a business owner, a father, legendary professional player and a nice, personable guy when you get to know him.
I've played golf, tennis and LOT's of pool with him, as well as spent many hours with him outside of competition. He always has something positive to say and everyone I know likes and respects him as a person and a player.
The fact of the matter is they are adults and understand risk/reward as well as any of us do. To say what they should or shouldn't do is simply impossible, and just a "wild guess" at best. They all know about gambling, it's been a big part of their lives.
At no time during my interaction with Bonus Ball was it represented that Johnny's "job" was to "protect players and make sure their money was there".....this was not his job description, he was clearly trying to promote the game and recruit the players.
There's no absolute guarantees when it comes to business ventures, Donald Trump has stiffed casino investors for millions through the years and he's known as a respected business man. Business ventures have risk/reward factors and are essentially "gambling"......take a look at the Stock Market and you'll see the sample example, and businesses are going bankrupt in the USA every day.
No one has any problems with Johnny's integrity except people that have nothing to do with him personally or business wise. He's a business owner, a father, legendary professional player and a nice, personable guy when you get to know him.
I've played golf, tennis and LOT's of pool with him, as well as spent many hours with him outside of competition. He always has something positive to say and everyone I know likes and respects him as a person and a player.
Johnny is the president of the ABP. The ABP's job is to represent and protect the players. I'm not sure what part of that you don't understand but I'm also not sure much simpler I can make it for you.
False. Ask around.
let's get back on a productive path that leads to "solution oriented" resolutions
I don't recognize your avatar name, do you play pool, billiards or bonus ball, or why so interested in slandering Johnny's efforts? Is this a personal vendetta or are you legitimately concerned about "all the poor pool players".
I will agree that he could do things better, but that goes for every living human, except for the self righteous hypocrites that lurk in the shadows, yearning for some kind of recognition. Everyone that has anything to do with history changing business will make mistakes and the best strategy is learning from them and not repeating them (when possible). Bill Gates, Abraham Lincoln, and even Willie Mosconi made mistakes.
The appropriate thing is for one of the Bonus Ball players to step up and say what's on their mine, either positive or negative and do it in a professional, mature manner.
Slandering and calling names is an immature and unprofessional way of dealing with this situation, let's get back on a productive path that leads to "solution oriented" resolutions, not needless finger pointing. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I don't recognize your avatar name, do you play pool, billiards or bonus ball, or why so interested in slandering Johnny's efforts? Is this a personal vendetta or are you legitimately concerned about "all the poor pool players".
I will agree that he could do things better, but that goes for every living human, except for the self righteous hypocrites that lurk in the shadows, yearning for some kind of recognition. Everyone that has anything to do with history changing business will make mistakes and the best strategy is learning from them and not repeating them (when possible). Bill Gates, Abraham Lincoln, and even Willie Mosconi made mistakes.
The appropriate thing is for one of the Bonus Ball players to step up and say what's on their mine, either positive or negative and do it in a professional, mature manner.
Slandering and calling names is an immature and unprofessional way of dealing with this situation, let's get back on a productive path that leads to "solution oriented" resolutions, not needless finger pointing. 'The Game is the Teacher'
1. The players who got f'd by Chiborak will speak someday,. they must be either contractually unable to and continue to honor that, in hopes the will see some money at some point.
B. Hug it out, biatches. We can live on flowers.
I don't recognize your avatar name, do you play pool, billiards or bonus ball, or why so interested in slandering Johnny's efforts? Is this a personal vendetta or are you legitimately concerned about "all the poor pool players".
I will agree that he could do things better, but that goes for every living human, except for the self righteous hypocrites that lurk in the shadows, yearning for some kind of recognition. Everyone that has anything to do with history changing business will make mistakes and the best strategy is learning from them and not repeating them (when possible). Bill Gates, Abraham Lincoln, and even Willie Mosconi made mistakes.
The appropriate thing is for one of the Bonus Ball players to step up and say what's on their mine, either positive or negative and do it in a professional, mature manner.
Slandering and calling names is an immature and unprofessional way of dealing with this situation, let's get back on a productive path that leads to "solution oriented" resolutions, not needless finger pointing. 'The Game is the Teacher'
You don't need to recognize my name or know who I am. Everyone else knows who I am. I don't have a personal vendetta against Johnny, I just think he screwed the pooch and ALL OF THE PLAYERS involved are affected because of him. I wish I could say half of the things I know... but I cannot.
I've yet to call anyone any names or slander anyone. Is Johnny the president of the ABP or isn't he? I've already posted the job of the ABP. I'm simply stating facts. I wouldn't expect you to understand.