Proposed TAR - TOI VS NO AIMING SYSTEM

[Mr. Bond]

In a real game everyone generally breaks safe because it's very difficult to make one in your pocket consistently.....so yes, the risk of handing over an easy run is high.

Well yeah, that was my point. Pocketing 29 balls is great, but I doubt that many people would crack open a rack like that in a real world situation. In other words, the real game is not nearly as easy as it appears from your run.

Here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSSFIeb3lA4

I'm sure somebody somewhere has tried it. The question was if you yourself would risk 10k on splitting a rack wide open, when the stats are so heavily against success.
(See quote from above from 1850) Btw- I don't need to know your answer, its a hypothetical question.

 

[BeiberLvr]

You're basing your opinion on Virtual Pool?

Only one thing to say to that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDzcRlLDnmo

Hey ya gotta work with what you have.

 

[CJ Wiley]

this time I pulled out my "new break" and it threw him off from the very start

The problem with the high-inside is that you tend to hit the rack too hard, moving balls away from where they need to be. If you try both, you'll see one is highly repeatable and the other is chancy. If people were breaking that way at the DCC, they're probably super-mega talented at banking and making everything they shoot at -- basically doing well with pure retard-strength. Like CJ, I have to thank Allen as well for teaching me how to setup your run in 1-hole.

Allen also taught me another very valuable tool. I was playing Tony Fargo one pocket on the 5/10' table for $1000. a game and was having problems beating him. He would go hours making (or hanging) every bank shot and was finding one off MY BREAK almost every time using the conventional one pocket break.

I called Allen and he said "you can't use the conventional break against him, you have to use a variation of the break I showed you for running balls".....he carefully explained how it was done and I went back down to my pool room and practiced it for a solid hour.

The next day Tony and I played again...... this time I pulled out my "new break" and it threw him off from the very start and he never recouperated. I went on to win 7 games.

Then, ironically, Roger Griffis (ESPN Ultimate 9 Ball Champion) came up to me after I had beat Tony for $7000. and said "Tony just told me he'd show me how he banks for $700. I think we should go halfs and learn his system" .....I replied "you think he'll show us exactly what he does, because it's super strong".....Roger replied cooly "I know he will!" 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[HawaiianEye]

[BIf for instance, the next object ball, happened to be hanging in the jaws, leaving no safe place to roll out (when hooked) and no way to kick at it, the most common strategy, was to try and tie up a ball or two, thereby making the run-out more difficult for the incoming player

This brings out the games "similarity" to the standard practice used in playing one pocket. Conceding a ball, but, at the same time, decreasing your opponent's chance of running out on you. This game forces people to fight for each and every shot, with the exception of the time you actually get a shot and can "CONTROL" the game on YOUR OWN TERMS.

Unlike the standard one-foul, BIH game where all you have to do is stick somebody behind a ball to get a chance back at the table, in this game you actually have to "out move" the oppoenent as well.

 

[houmatroy]

It appears to me that Shannon shoots at the wrong hole from the very beginning.

Ray

Corey calls his hole 1st..confusing part is that normally it is assumed that your hole is opposite from which way u break with the normal safety break but Corey called his pocket & broke from same side.

 

[CJ Wiley]

when you break and "hang" a ball you can't just make it and shoot again.

Gerry, since you have tried this can you elaborate on what happened when you got to 10 a few times? Was it just the difficult part of getting shape on odd placed balls, or did you just miss the shot (or a combo of the two)?

Also, CJ in regards to the shooting full rack in one pocket...if you break and have a ball hanging literally in say the side pocket do you shoot it and spot it or just start over since there is no way to shoot it in your one pocket you choose?

That's what set up the 29 ball run is before the rack I made the statement that if I made a ball in another pocket it would spot LAST so I could have a chance to run all 15.....I forgot, so that's why I had to do it again.....because I only ran 14 and I said I'd run 15......and the rest is history.

However, when you break and "hang" a ball you can't just make it and shoot again.

 

[PINKLADY]

good God, we've been "ïndisposed" for the past 48 hrs - have yáll not settled this yet?

we could have WALKED to TX by now & played CJ.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Corey calls his hole 1st..confusing part is that normally it is assumed that your hole is opposite from which way u break with the normal safety break but Corey called his pocket & broke from same side.

LMAO! That is what I LIKED so much about that! It seemed to confuse the hell out of everybody. Unconventional thinking! Out of the box!

Reminds me of a guy who loved to play and was about a ball below the speed of the top guys, yet nobody would spot him or give him a game. In order to get a game for the money he wanted to play for, HE would spot the BETTER player the last two playing 9-ball. It confused the hell out of everybody, but his "philosophy" was that he KNEW that they would get to the 9 99% of the time if they got the last ball so it didn't really make a difference.

 

[Bambu]

LMAO! That is what I LIKED so much about that! It seemed to confuse the hell out of everybody. Unconventional thinking! Out of the box!

Reminds me of a guy who loved to play and was about a ball below the speed of the top guys, yet nobody would spot him or give him a game. In order to get a game for the money he wanted to play for, HE would spot the BETTER player the last two playing 9-ball. It confused the hell out of everybody, but his "philosophy" was that he KNEW that they would get to the 9 99% of the time if they got the last ball so it didn't really make a difference.

That's almost an act of desperation, a move that could have easily backfired. Even at pro level, you don't see open players spotting pros squat. I wish I had someone under me, and still giving up weight!

 

[houmatroy]

LMAO! That is what I LIKED so much about that! It seemed to confuse the hell out of everybody. Unconventional thinking! Out of the box!

Reminds me of a guy who loved to play and was about a ball below the speed of the top guys, yet nobody would spot him or give him a game. In order to get a game for the money he wanted to play for, HE would spot the BETTER player the last two playing 9-ball. It confused the hell out of everybody, but his "philosophy" was that he KNEW that they would get to the 9 99% of the time if they got the last ball so it didn't really make a difference.

Takes all kinds..had a guy once years ago I use to beat even pretty regular gambling & he starts asking for the 8 so next time we match up I say you got it..right b4 we bout to start he says f..k that..If I beat u..u gonna say it's because of the spot..we playing even..I said ok & beat him again..lol..Another time A local player that plays better than I do wanted to play 8ball giving me 1 on wire race to 4..I win the 1st 2 sets cuz I happen to be playing good for me that night..He moans & says...yea like I'm suppose to be spotting u..we were playing cheap so..next set I move my coin to even with his under the headstring..He says...Oh no..f...k that we started that way we gonna end that way & went move my coin to 1 again..i preceed to beat him 6 more n a row...U just never know what some people will do sometimes...lol:thumbup:

 

[HawaiianEye]

That's almost an act of desperation, a move that could have easily backfired. Even at pro level, you don't see open players spotting pros squat. I wish I had someone under me, and still giving up weight!

LOL! It may have been an "act of despiration", but it got him action. It also made for interesting conversation with subsequent matchups during the "wolfing" sessions beforehand.

People would ask, "How does he play?"

Somebody would respond, "He plays pretty sporty, but Johnny Mosconi beat him last time."

Then somebody would ask, "What was Johnny Mosconi spotting him?" and the response would be, "NOTHING, Mosconi was getting the last two from Shmuckatelly."

If Shmuckatelly beat Johnny, he could always say, "I gave Mosconi the last two and beat him", which he thought made him a player and a hero to the railbirds.

If he lost, he could always say, "Hell yes, Mosconi beat me! Have YOU ever tried to play him and give HIM the last two?"

 

[Ken_4fun]

LOL

I almost hate to share this but I will. It goes partially to CJ's point, I think.

I was in Louisville, talking to one of my very best buds, Bryan Roberts. He is a huge banks fan (do they even play anything else there ???? :thumbup

Of course I am telling him what an easy game banks is, etc. He knows I like to watch and play one pocket, so the verbal jousting is active!

He said this and I hadnt thought about it this way before. "Not always, but often, in one pocket a difficult shot is made, and that shot allows several easier shots to be made following it. So easy, in fact, that once that difficult shot is made, world class players will go ahead and make the remaining 7 or so and end the game.

But in banks, after you have made a difficult bank shot, you are faced with another bank shot, and then another bank shot. It gets no easier" (other than possibly less balls in the way).

Right or wrong, it gave me a new appreciation for banks.

Ken

 

[JB Cases]

John:

That was many years ago. Ask Corey about that breakshot now. You'll see he never uses it anymore (witness his matches in recent DCC and Tunica events as evidence), because he'd lost more games with that break than he'd won.

At first, this break confused his opponents, and even when he (Corey) would sell-out a ball, his opponents wouldn't get out, because they'd be too cavalier in thinking they'd be out and miss a shot. (If you miss your opportunity and give back a shooter like Corey an open rack like that, it's all over.) But the newness and confusion factor of that break quickly wore off, and Corey henceforth lost a lot of matches using it.

-Sean

I know. Was just showing Mr. Bond that someone did use a hard break when it counted with decent money on the line

 

[HawaiianEye]

[QUOTE

But in banks, after you have made a difficult bank shot, you are faced with another bank shot, and then another bank shot. It gets no easier" (other than possibly less balls in the way).
Ken[/QUOTE]

Yes, it all depends upon where the balls are laying. I got lucky the other day just throwing balls up and down the side rail and cross-banking them into the side...I made 9 in a row before I missed.

Some banks are simpler than others, but you have to control the cueball and play position as well as banking and making the ball in order to make the next bank as easy as possible.

You can't just bank the ball and hope to get an easy bank afterward...YOU have to control situation.

 

[klockdoc]

Here's how Max does it.

Good music too!

15 balls in one pocket

 

[ChopStick]

CJ -

I love all pool games, including Bonus Ball.

Before I can really make an honest opinion on the game I would have to see it played.

I have never seen it played.

I will check on youtube to see I can see it.

Im 50 years old and I have never seen it played.

Ken

How long have you been in Memphis? That's all we used to play in Funland and River City. We just called it 2 foul 9 ball.

BTW, I am in High Pockets a couple of times a week. I am the old guy who is always practicing alone with a black P3. It's the only one I have seen in there. Come on over.

 

[West Point 1987]

Here's how Max does it.

Good music too!

15 balls in one pocket

Wow. There were at LEAST 6 shots I would have shot differently...and thereby ruined the run. That was pure straight pool right there....awesome!

 

[Ken_4fun]

How long have you been in Memphis? That's all we used to play in Funland and River City. We just called it 2 foul 9 ball.

BTW, I am in High Pockets a couple of times a week. I am the old guy who is always practicing alone with a black P3. It's the only one I have seen in there. Come on over.

LOL

I have only played in Highpockets and The Rack.

Sorry but I have moved outta Memphis.

Ken

 

[CJ Wiley]

"deeper level" that I referred to yesterday. 'The Game is the Teacher' CJ Wiley

This brings out the games "similarity" to the standard practice used in playing one pocket. Conceding a ball, but, at the same time, decreasing your opponent's chance of running out on you. This game forces people to fight for each and every shot, with the exception of the time you actually get a shot and can "CONTROL" the game on YOUR OWN TERMS.

Unlike the standard one-foul, BIH game where all you have to do is stick somebody behind a ball to get a chance back at the table, in this game you actually have to "out move" the oppoenent as well.

You can also make two balls out of rotation on a roll out and they BOTH spot.....this is more along the lines of the "deeper level" that I referred to yesterday. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

"some say it's all in the mind"....and some are right" CJ Wiley

That's almost an act of desperation, a move that could have easily backfired. Even at pro level, you don't see open players spotting pros squat. I wish I had someone under me, and still giving up weight!

I used to spot top champion players the "Wild 8" and take the "Last Two"....you'd think it wouldn't make a difference, but it does. When they see me winning on the 7 Ball (or 6 Ball) once in a while they subconsciously experience they're spotting me......."some say it's all in the mind....and some are right". The Game is the Teacher