In CJ's defense, if ANY pro player has an idea how to make this game a success for EVERYONE, then it is probably him.
Mike
Mike
Article by Badi Nazhat
- Thread starter Houstoer
- Start date
the Billiard Industry will NOT come together unless the government threatens to ban
I understand Badi wanting to see that, but that's like seeing all the bar owners in an area coming together. We actually did that when the state of Texas threatened to close all of us down at midnight because of a old law that came up concerning the decennial census and the population requirements for a "late hours permit".
We had the top 5 bars in the area come together and put up 30k to fight the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission (TABC).....this is like going against the FBI, they have nearly the same amount of power in Texas. My consultant was the Major of the TABC and over 2500 locations at one time.......we won, but it was nerve racking.
The fact is the Billiard Industry will NOT come together unless the government threatens to ban pool......then there's a actually a really good chance they come together to fight a "common enemy".
Back to reality: Pro pool needs the same formula as all the rest of professional sports and we don't have to re invent the marketing process, just follow the following guidelines.
The Tunica 'Ultimate 10 Ball' had over $100,000 in prize money, this "action plan" could be implemented for 25/30% of that money and the players would be BETTER OFF than if the entire prize fund went to them. This plan would increase visibility and give the players a chance to make more money through sponsorship from TV coverage. Right now, with "streaming video" they have no value to sponsors within the industry.
1) Hire a professional Marketing Agency that determines EXACTLY who the target demographic is and a specific plan to target them effectively.
2) Hire a professional Advertising Agency that already has several clients that target the demographic "target market" that the marketing agency determines is best.
3) Pick a popular Charity and fully commit to raising as much money in a year as possible. Coordinate PRO AM's with Pro Players and local celebrities and do an event before EVERY TOURNAMENT.
4) Set up an atmosphere where the Pro Players, the Referees, Vendors, and the Tournament Staff are treated with the utmost respect and courtesy.
5) Hire a Public Relations group that sends out Press Releases on a daily basis letting the world know about the new Charity, the Popularity of Pocket Billiards and the outlined marketing strategy put together by the Marketing and Advertising Groups.
6) Get a TV Contract, because ESPN and FOX go out to the general public....into every bar, restaurant, sporting goods store and thousands of other businesses in the United States.....the internet has it's purposes, but it DOES NOT go out into the public....this is the advantage TV has over the "streaming video"....ESPN has 112 MILLION potential viewers, anything shown will be seen by over a million viewers....it's a huge commercial for pool.
7) Only use a group of professionals that are at least "Willing to Believe" that pocket billiards can increase it's market share by 70% or more. Let's face it, if people aren't willing to believe the Game can improve dramatically they are just "dead weight" and create "negative synergy"
I understand Badi wanting to see that, but that's like seeing all the bar owners in an area coming together. We actually did that when the state of Texas threatened to close all of us down at midnight because of a old law that came up concerning the decennial census and the population requirements for a "late hours permit".
We had the top 5 bars in the area come together and put up 30k to fight the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission (TABC).....this is like going against the FBI, they have nearly the same amount of power in Texas. My consultant was the Major of the TABC and over 2500 locations at one time.......we won, but it was nerve racking.
The fact is the Billiard Industry will NOT come together unless the government threatens to ban pool......then there's a actually a really good chance they come together to fight a "common enemy".
Back to reality: Pro pool needs the same formula as all the rest of professional sports and we don't have to re invent the marketing process, just follow the following guidelines.
The Tunica 'Ultimate 10 Ball' had over $100,000 in prize money, this "action plan" could be implemented for 25/30% of that money and the players would be BETTER OFF than if the entire prize fund went to them. This plan would increase visibility and give the players a chance to make more money through sponsorship from TV coverage. Right now, with "streaming video" they have no value to sponsors within the industry.
1) Hire a professional Marketing Agency that determines EXACTLY who the target demographic is and a specific plan to target them effectively.
2) Hire a professional Advertising Agency that already has several clients that target the demographic "target market" that the marketing agency determines is best.
3) Pick a popular Charity and fully commit to raising as much money in a year as possible. Coordinate PRO AM's with Pro Players and local celebrities and do an event before EVERY TOURNAMENT.
4) Set up an atmosphere where the Pro Players, the Referees, Vendors, and the Tournament Staff are treated with the utmost respect and courtesy.
5) Hire a Public Relations group that sends out Press Releases on a daily basis letting the world know about the new Charity, the Popularity of Pocket Billiards and the outlined marketing strategy put together by the Marketing and Advertising Groups.
6) Get a TV Contract, because ESPN and FOX go out to the general public....into every bar, restaurant, sporting goods store and thousands of other businesses in the United States.....the internet has it's purposes, but it DOES NOT go out into the public....this is the advantage TV has over the "streaming video"....ESPN has 112 MILLION potential viewers, anything shown will be seen by over a million viewers....it's a huge commercial for pool.
7) Only use a group of professionals that are at least "Willing to Believe" that pocket billiards can increase it's market share by 70% or more. Let's face it, if people aren't willing to believe the Game can improve dramatically they are just "dead weight" and create "negative synergy"
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Mark, thanks for the quick primer on doing proper PR for an event. If you remember the LA Opens of the early 90's, we drew huge crowds, over 1,000 people a day (1,500 on Friday and Saturday!). All thanks to pin point advertising in the five major Los Angeles area newspapers and lots of PR to the sports editors of the newspapers and radio and TV stations. Three local TV networks gave daily news coverage to our event and it was covered daily in all five newspapers as well! It can be done, it just takes a little effort to make it happen.
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Thank you Badi for lighting a fire under everyone's ass! I really appreciate you holding nothing back and giving us your true assessment of pro pool and what has hampered its growth. I can relate to everything you had to say as a former promoter of professional pool tournaments. As an example, I put on the biggest event of the year in 1992 in Los Angeles. It was a $140,000 tournament with all the money guaranteed! Earl Strickland won the men's division and $21,000. Peg Ledman won the women's division and $10,000. ALL prize money was paid IMMEDIATELY on site. The following year, the men's professional association refused to sanction the event and had all their players boycott it. I couldn't believe the players would not come, sanctioned or not, since the prize fund was hiked even further to 160K. I was wrong! They did not support my event, just like they didn't truly support yours. Only a few pros defied the ban. Mark Tadd won $26,000 that year with several of the top players sitting on the sidelines wondering what just happened.
After that I felt just like you did and how Mark Griffin feels today. Why should I bother to put my time and money into a game where the players will turn their back on you in a instant. I have never produced another big table tournament since then. The L.A. Open could have been a fixture on the pro tour every year if not for this. I did produce the U.S. Bar Table Championship for 12 years before turning it over to Mark. In those 12 years we paid out nearly 1.5 million in prize money, all paid on site immediately!
If I wanted to I could produce an event in Los Angeles today, but why? It's a losing proposition and a helluva lot of work. I don't need the stress any more. How long I will continue to support the Bigfoot Challenge I'm not sure. Once again the players let me down and failed to support an event with 18K added and only 32 players. Bad move, that one is over!
I do appreciate all the intelligent responses on this thread. There are some wise souls who contribute to AZ. I also have a very good idea of what it would take to make pro pool more successful. Like CJ, I believe it can be done with proper marketing and promotion. It would take either someone with deep pockets or a very clever marketing company to raise the funds. To date Barry Hearn and Matchroom are the only ones who have come close to getting it right. For nearly twenty years I did my best to make our sport bigger, but it seemed I was thwarted at every turn, either by the BCA, the MPBA or the players themselves. I've put up my own money, hired a marketing company and must have written 100 proposals. I continue to believe in the beauty of the game and it's marketability. And I'm very willing to lend my expertise to anyone who wants to put on a major tournament or tour.
After that I felt just like you did and how Mark Griffin feels today. Why should I bother to put my time and money into a game where the players will turn their back on you in a instant. I have never produced another big table tournament since then. The L.A. Open could have been a fixture on the pro tour every year if not for this. I did produce the U.S. Bar Table Championship for 12 years before turning it over to Mark. In those 12 years we paid out nearly 1.5 million in prize money, all paid on site immediately!
If I wanted to I could produce an event in Los Angeles today, but why? It's a losing proposition and a helluva lot of work. I don't need the stress any more. How long I will continue to support the Bigfoot Challenge I'm not sure. Once again the players let me down and failed to support an event with 18K added and only 32 players. Bad move, that one is over!
I do appreciate all the intelligent responses on this thread. There are some wise souls who contribute to AZ. I also have a very good idea of what it would take to make pro pool more successful. Like CJ, I believe it can be done with proper marketing and promotion. It would take either someone with deep pockets or a very clever marketing company to raise the funds. To date Barry Hearn and Matchroom are the only ones who have come close to getting it right. For nearly twenty years I did my best to make our sport bigger, but it seemed I was thwarted at every turn, either by the BCA, the MPBA or the players themselves. I've put up my own money, hired a marketing company and must have written 100 proposals. I continue to believe in the beauty of the game and it's marketability. And I'm very willing to lend my expertise to anyone who wants to put on a major tournament or tour.
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A very well written and emotional piece that boils down to "I was ready to do more but there is no unity to do it for."
Basically if pool can be owned, and by owned I mean there is a full tour with guaranteed money and every player on that tour is a qualified professional class player who is contracted to play in those professional events, then my question is why don't the people with the money and experience who are all on the same page, Mark Griffin, Badi Nazhat, Randy Goldwater and a few others, why don't they pool their resources and cut the BCA and WPA completely out of the loop?
Just work on America. Put up a pro tour and use the resources available to structure a league-based system that funds said pro tour through the lowest local level to the state and regional level up through the pro level.
Why don't these people COMMIT 10-20 million to building such a system with boots-on-the-ground salesmen going into every pool hall and bar in the United States and forcing this system to work? None of these room owners are going to do it on their own. They have enough to do.
What's in it for these investors? Well aside from the obvious income from having hundreds of thousands of players paying to the sport every week at their disposal there is the eventual sponsorship deals, the ad revenue from shows they sell to networks, production deals, pool-celebrity shows, exhibitions, the gate from pro events, and of course the national amateur events.
If each person who plays pool competitively on leagues and in tournaments can be said to be worth $500 a year to the pool industry then one million of them makes this a half-billion dollar industry. How much of that half a billion is out there for such an organization to get? Much more than the 20 million they would put in to pretty much own the professional side of the sport.
Their target should be to put the APA out of business and take all their players. Then to quadruple the amount of players in that organization to one million league players around the country.
Do that and they not only own the ONLY path to professional pool in the United States they are also a force that others MUST deal with if they want to do anything in pool at any level.
Otherwise the hand wringing continues and the blame is passed from acronym to acronym. Oh the players are at fault, yes they are on some level and no they are not on another level. Each player is an individual with their own life to tend to. Some of them absolutely cannot afford to sacrifice events for the greater good. Some of them have zero practical sense about business and life. Most of them in America came into pool through the gunslinger gambling culture where you can be sold out by your road partner at any time.
I say again that it's the strong promoters who are the ones who need to go and lock themselves into a room and decide whether they love the game enough to want to REALLY own it or whether they too are waiting for the lake to evaporate.
Basically if pool can be owned, and by owned I mean there is a full tour with guaranteed money and every player on that tour is a qualified professional class player who is contracted to play in those professional events, then my question is why don't the people with the money and experience who are all on the same page, Mark Griffin, Badi Nazhat, Randy Goldwater and a few others, why don't they pool their resources and cut the BCA and WPA completely out of the loop?
Just work on America. Put up a pro tour and use the resources available to structure a league-based system that funds said pro tour through the lowest local level to the state and regional level up through the pro level.
Why don't these people COMMIT 10-20 million to building such a system with boots-on-the-ground salesmen going into every pool hall and bar in the United States and forcing this system to work? None of these room owners are going to do it on their own. They have enough to do.
What's in it for these investors? Well aside from the obvious income from having hundreds of thousands of players paying to the sport every week at their disposal there is the eventual sponsorship deals, the ad revenue from shows they sell to networks, production deals, pool-celebrity shows, exhibitions, the gate from pro events, and of course the national amateur events.
If each person who plays pool competitively on leagues and in tournaments can be said to be worth $500 a year to the pool industry then one million of them makes this a half-billion dollar industry. How much of that half a billion is out there for such an organization to get? Much more than the 20 million they would put in to pretty much own the professional side of the sport.
Their target should be to put the APA out of business and take all their players. Then to quadruple the amount of players in that organization to one million league players around the country.
Do that and they not only own the ONLY path to professional pool in the United States they are also a force that others MUST deal with if they want to do anything in pool at any level.
Otherwise the hand wringing continues and the blame is passed from acronym to acronym. Oh the players are at fault, yes they are on some level and no they are not on another level. Each player is an individual with their own life to tend to. Some of them absolutely cannot afford to sacrifice events for the greater good. Some of them have zero practical sense about business and life. Most of them in America came into pool through the gunslinger gambling culture where you can be sold out by your road partner at any time.
I say again that it's the strong promoters who are the ones who need to go and lock themselves into a room and decide whether they love the game enough to want to REALLY own it or whether they too are waiting for the lake to evaporate.
Syl Livingston was a promoter who would go from town to town booking exhibitions for his players. When a player was scheduled Syl would blanket the town with promotion so that no one in town didn't know that Mosconi would be there on Tuesday at 8pm.
This art is completely forgotten now.
People think oh if I put it on Facebook and AZB that's enough. It's not.
Great post Jay.
I remember that very well Jay. You smoked on the promotion for the LA Open.. I seem to remember Morro doing some exibition stuff on the news as well. That's the way it's done buddy, you know what's up!! Use the media effectively and you will have a gate that will not be 15 people, but more like 1500 or more.. These top players are so gifted and deserve a forum to showcase their amazing skills. It frustrates me to no end that we can't have our pool where we want it:-(. My wife thinks we could use another good pool movie. I remember after The Color Of Money was out for a while everyone was talking pool and quoting lines from the movie. Look what Rounders did for poker
. I don't have the answers Jay, but I do have a lot of love for pool and hope someone can help get it where it deserves to be<<my 2 cents. PS I am so looking forward to the Mosconi Cup!!
Good post John.
I put posters in every poolroom in the Los Angeles area (there were over 300 back then) and also gave away 50% discount tickets for the first two days (we gave these tickets to all the poolrooms and bars to hand out). It worked, as hundreds of them came back to us and many people returned later and paid for full price tickets the last three days.
Two very good points. There was no internet to rely on for laziness..It was pound the pavement or else. In the early 80s I was walking up and down the Sunset Strip with my staple gun and posters promoting our shows,lol
))))it seems like most people on here blame the players for ultimate 10 ball but my take on what mr nazhat stated was he blamed every pool related organization in existence also " except for csi ". i have no idea who is at fault .. maybe every one who failed to do as he asked. .... which was to form some unity that he stated he saw fail to materialize.
as for the southern classic failing..... i blame every one involved that was in charge of promoting it. greg sullivan said he pulled out because harrahs was dis satisfied the numbers did not add up.well harrahs can take part of the blame for that also. as i stated in an earlier post there was no form of advertising at all for the biggest pool event ever to hit this area.
kinda sad you can ride around memphis and see 100 billboards touting this concert or that concert or this blackjack tournament or that slot machine tournament but like i say not a damn thing about the southern classic at their venue.
last year we had the black widow tour here. the place was packed. people from 4 states was there. i am talking about tenn, arkansas. mississippi and alabama which is only 1 1/2 hours away.
if a pool hall can generate that kind of crowd with one pro why could not a venue with a shit load of pros generate enough bodies to satisify harrahs ? failure to promote is my guess.
i was at the southern classic for the amature tourneys being held across the street. i spent a lot of time between matches outside smoking or bs' ing with friends. i cant tell you how many people stopped out front and asked where the tournament was being held. i said which one ? they said the pros. i said across the street at harrahs. got the same reply every time. we heard there was one down here but we did not know where it was being held. i had a lot of other people tell me they went through the same thing outside. people who heard just assumed it was at the convention center and stopped there.
that failure for people not knowing falls on every one involved who was "SUPPOSED TO BE " promoting this event.
I tend to agree that pro pool might be better served within the USA. Not to say there wouldn't be big events like team USA VS. ?. Last thing you want is two unknown players on national tv and they might not speak the language. Maybe do something like NASCAR. Have a points champion for the year with a huge payout. So even if a player doesn't get in the money he can still get points. Maybe do like tennis where brackets are based on your ranking. Make players come up through the ranks. Maybe be like golf and if you don't achieve a certain level over a period of time you go to cue school so to speak. Maybe have to sit out for a year and earn your way back to being a pro. Player plays in 24 events over two years and never finishes in the top 10. Maybe he isn't pro level. Plus it would make players show up to events. Seek out sponsors. Give lessons or exhibitions to raise money. Maybe the payouts are higher and spread out more. If their mentality is as a pro I just have to play in tournaments. The sport is dead. When was the last time say before or after a tournament. All the pro's grabbed a table and let us armatures play them for say an hour. Just for fun. To help promote the sport and give back to the fans. Kinda a thank you for coming out and spending your time and money so I get to do what I enjoy for a living. Probably never ever happen. Other sports do that. Do players hear the complaints from viewer. Like slow play and rack inspections. Would they be willing to change to give their sport a chance. Haven't so far.
1st southern classic had the same poor advertising! No billboards and advertising on the property! Even mentioned it to diamond's executive in the lobby when no billboards for the event but billboards for the bango brothers next month everywhere!
Kd
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Its a wonder and testament to the game that there is field of pro talent that still exists today, considering the mine fields of failed promotion, failed tournaments, disorganized tours, lack of industry sponsorship, lack of any real outside sponsorship, zero major network airtime & the zero TV dollars that came with it.
This is what "professional pool players" have had to navigate for the last 20-25 years..
Today, The two best players in the world will fly from anywhere in the world, match up for 3 days and chop 5K. Most investors looking in will say "Why would I invest any money when the 2 best players in the world are only playing for 5K??
They would rather invest in bass fishing before pool, because when the two best bass killers match up?? They chop at least 100K,
Its painfully obvious none of the kings of pool are willing to part with 100K on any kind of regular frequency today. And I can see why...The kings of pool don't need to. They exist today after two decades of bloodletting and have no desire to part with any real money. They are the only ones still standing, and spending 100K will not bring the return needed in todays market.
Most people have no idea professional pool exists today.
As has been said in this thread before there is no magic bullet to bringing players back...they are dying faster than they are being born. An no one will ever ride in on a white horse with a big sack of cash and save pool. And no one needs another failed adventure either I agree.
I see there being two ways to increase the participation in the worlds greatest game within one generation.
1. Bring in the youth, Reintroduce pool to todays generation. Give them a phone app that connects them to the game. Go host a free monthly tournament at your local high school...Its easier said than done. There are hundreds of ideas, but its simple, we must get kids playing pool again. If we don't? the game will disappear eventually. This way will be the most difficult, yet will give the highest probability of success.
2. Increase awareness on a national level. No white knights are stepping in to higher PR firms and advertising companies or building quality organizations that will look out for the players best interests, or industry sponsorship throwing down for 100K for a world tourney. That doesn't exist, and no one is watching what doesn't exist.
If you want the most bang for your buck?? Network TV, Syndicated TV, reality..etc or a major motion picture. Color of Money was 27 years ago. Poo Hall Junkies was 12 years ago. Duck Dynasty has blown open the duck hunting industry.
How do you get that kid away from X Box and back to spending a few hours a week at a pool table? Answer that and you will have figured out how to reinvent pool.:idea2:
This is what "professional pool players" have had to navigate for the last 20-25 years..
Today, The two best players in the world will fly from anywhere in the world, match up for 3 days and chop 5K. Most investors looking in will say "Why would I invest any money when the 2 best players in the world are only playing for 5K??
They would rather invest in bass fishing before pool, because when the two best bass killers match up?? They chop at least 100K,
Its painfully obvious none of the kings of pool are willing to part with 100K on any kind of regular frequency today. And I can see why...The kings of pool don't need to. They exist today after two decades of bloodletting and have no desire to part with any real money. They are the only ones still standing, and spending 100K will not bring the return needed in todays market.
Most people have no idea professional pool exists today.
As has been said in this thread before there is no magic bullet to bringing players back...they are dying faster than they are being born. An no one will ever ride in on a white horse with a big sack of cash and save pool. And no one needs another failed adventure either I agree.
I see there being two ways to increase the participation in the worlds greatest game within one generation.
1. Bring in the youth, Reintroduce pool to todays generation. Give them a phone app that connects them to the game. Go host a free monthly tournament at your local high school...Its easier said than done. There are hundreds of ideas, but its simple, we must get kids playing pool again. If we don't? the game will disappear eventually. This way will be the most difficult, yet will give the highest probability of success.
2. Increase awareness on a national level. No white knights are stepping in to higher PR firms and advertising companies or building quality organizations that will look out for the players best interests, or industry sponsorship throwing down for 100K for a world tourney. That doesn't exist, and no one is watching what doesn't exist.
If you want the most bang for your buck?? Network TV, Syndicated TV, reality..etc or a major motion picture. Color of Money was 27 years ago. Poo Hall Junkies was 12 years ago. Duck Dynasty has blown open the duck hunting industry.
How do you get that kid away from X Box and back to spending a few hours a week at a pool table? Answer that and you will have figured out how to reinvent pool.:idea2:
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Very interesting, Kid. Thanks for sharing your insights about Badi Nazhat. I learned a lot from reading your post that I did not know previously. :smile:
I wonder where the BCA organization fits in with the players, manufacturers, promoters, league operators, and media. Their presence is absent in professional pool for quite a long time now.
Some of the remarks on this thread parallel what some think the pro players did to the current pool promoters by dissing their events because of Bonus Ball earlier this year.
An experienced businessman, who happens to be a pro player with experience to boot, is sharing his insights on this thread about how professional pool can become successful.
AzB-ers, much like the pro players did to the two recent Tunica events and CSI, are dissing the insights shared by this pro player. C.J. Wiley has been on both sides of the fence. I tend to think what he has to say holds merit because he understands not only the promoter's side of the coin, but he can definitely relate to the pro player. IMO, I tend to think what he writes is worthy, and I appreciate him taking the time to post on AzBilliards, while avoiding the flamed mud puddles put out there by some of this forum's members.
In case anyone hasn't said it, thanks, C.J., for taking to time to be a member in this pool forum. You're a stronger man than most pro players when it comes to posting. :wink:
An experienced businessman, who happens to be a pro player with experience to boot, is sharing his insights on this thread about how professional pool can become successful.
AzB-ers, much like the pro players did to the two recent Tunica events and CSI, are dissing the insights shared by this pro player. C.J. Wiley has been on both sides of the fence. I tend to think what he has to say holds merit because he understands not only the promoter's side of the coin, but he can definitely relate to the pro player. IMO, I tend to think what he writes is worthy, and I appreciate him taking the time to post on AzBilliards, while avoiding the flamed mud puddles put out there by some of this forum's members.
In case anyone hasn't said it, thanks, C.J., for taking to time to be a member in this pool forum. You're a stronger man than most pro players when it comes to posting. :wink:
agreed!
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well said sir!
-CP
:thumbup:
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well said sir!
-CP
:thumbup: