Can someone help me understand the thought process behind these requests?

[one stroke]

Good luck with your tourny. What advantage would you have by having any top pro at your event? Will it draw a bigger crowd if they are there? Will they put on a show or instructions? If you don't get value out of them why would you pay their expenses? The pros could put on a show everyday of your tourny and some instructional time as well to give value to them being there and for you to cover any cost.

Golf gets big money because people watch it and buy products. Golfers buy new clubs every year because the guys on tv have new ones and that is big money. Everyone knows who Tiger is outside the golf world and I'd say less then half know who SVB is in the pool world. It's hard to compare.

I hope your event is full and the best one this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Today the PGA tour event expects 180k spectators on the grounds and Tiger is not even in the field,, It would be hard to imagin 8k total for a 4 day pro event in pool f they have to pay to watch
In fact talking to Allan Hopkins last yr when he lowered the prize fund , he said its a loser trying to recoup the added money from fan turnout thats why it was free to watch
Watching pool just is not prime entertainment never was never will be

1

 

[JustPlay]

There are plenty of "pro" players and excellent players to play in both tournaments. Thank you, to both (and all) promoters of these two events, to go out and get sponsorship for pool players to have an OPPORTUNITY to win some money.

It is amazing that these same "pro" pool players with there excessive demands come here to Vegas and play in poker tournaments paying (out of pocket)$300 to $1000 entry fees, with no sponsorship, no paid for goodies by the tournament host, taxi cab fare, hotel stay, food and play in a tournament that only pays the top 8%-10% of the field, while most pool tournaments pay anywhere from 40% to 50% of the field.

But, yet, they can't afford the expenses of traveling to something they actually excel at and demand someone else to pay the bills for them. There is plenty of time in the day to work a job and play pool.


Well, there are plenty of players willing to show up and win the money if they don't. Unless your name is Willie Mosconi, Minnesota Fats or Steve Mizerak, shut, pay your own way (or earn your sponsorship) and play.

What ever happened to the Camel Tour??

 

[itsfroze]

I don't think she said she didn't know. I think she said she didn't think they had a choice.

"Are you really saying that you think its possible they didn't know the dates of Rum Runner when they scheduled?"

You are right she didn't say that another poster implied that, hence your reply above.
That's what I was referring to. Thanks

 

[NYC cue dude]

I have listened for three years about how professional players cannot make any money because there are not enough tournaments for them to play in. A couple of years ago we set out to get sponsorship from outside the industry to try to help turn things around. Str8 Shots has been very successful in getting sponsorship for 4 events this year with the first event being the Nick Varner Classic in March. There’s a total of $19,000.00 added and it is guaranteed.

$10,500.00 is being added to a professional event for up to 32 players. I’m aware the Rum Runner tournament is the same weekend and has up to 64 players. Unfortunately that weekend is one of the only weekends that Nick has availability. Plus the Wyoming Open is the following weekend and that has good money added to it also. We figured by having it the 3rd weekend of March, it worked with Nick’s schedule and gave professional players the opportunity to play in two good paying events over two consecutive weekends.

We’ve received numerous calls, FB messages, and emails from professional players asking us to cover their expenses to play in our event or they will go to Rum Runner. They say that the Rum Runner has better payouts and their expenses would be higher to come to Denver versus going to Vegas. Let’s compare apples to apples.

Rumrunner Payouts
1st - $5,000.00
2nd - $2,500.00
3rd - $1,600.00
4th - $1,100.00
5th/6th - $850.00
7th/8th - $600.00
9th/12th - $425.00
13th/16th - $300.00

Rum Runner Added $3,700.00
Entry Fee $200.00
Total Payout $16,000.00

Varner Payouts
1st - $5,000.00
2nd - $3,000.00
3rd - $2,000.00
4th - $1,500.00
5th/6th - $1,100.00
7th/8th - $790.00

Top Lady - $500.00

Nick Varner Added $10,500.00
Entry Fee $200.00
Total Payout $15,780.00


Upon checking flights to and from various cities around the country into both Vegas and Denver we have found there are some flights that are cheaper going to Vegas, while other flights are cheaper going into Denver.

Cheapest hotel we could find near the Rum Runner that will give you a free cup of coffee and free internet was $89.00 for two double/queens beds per night. It is a 2/3 star hotel. The deals we worked out with the hotels are $65.00 to $74.00 for two double/queens beds per night. Both of the hotels we’ve blocked rooms at include a free hot breakfast, free internet, and free shuttle service within 5 miles. Both 3/4 star hotels.

I think the Rum Runner is a great event and if they cover all the expenses for these players that is their decision .They have the right to decide what they want to do with their event. I would also encourage the players who have supported and done well in that event in the past to continue going to it.

I am asking because from a business standpoint it makes no sense to me. Why would promoters put the money up for the tournaments, pay players entry fees, and cover all their expenses to play in it? In my opinion you are stacking the deck against the players who actually did pay their own entry and expenses.

I would appreciate any insight/feedback.

You shouldn't be paying anyone's expenses, unless they've agreed to an exhibition or clinic for the juniors, beforehand. Perhaps, you may choose to set a precedent for the winner to appear the next year, but that's it. You don't owe these players anything, outside of promised payouts and a properly run tournament.

I will add that in the future, you should be more mindful of other regional dates and try to schedule yours more strategically. If you are trying to help pool, and at the same time, offer value to your sponsors, than its bad planning to compete with another event on the same date.

Just my .02
Randy

 

[book collector]

Add more tourneys with lesser payouts, it then becomes a matter of traveling the right route to hit them with the least expenditure. Or make the payouts bigger so that every time a tourney happens the big dogs aren't required to play because they've won enough money to not feel the pressure to compete.

Thank you for understanding what I said , some of the others did not.

 

[Scott Lee]

Good post JustPlay...but the payouts are generally 25% or less of the field gets paid. The Camel Tour folded after three years, because RJ Reynolds felt that they were not getting the return on their investment that they expected. Other reasons: smoking has been on a downward trend for many years; Congress passed laws outlawing advertising tobacco with sporting events; and the lawsuit that Don Mackey, dictator of the PBTA, foisted upon and won almost $900,000 from RJ Reynolds most likely didn't help much (to put it mildly! LOL). :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

There are plenty of "pro" players and excellent players to play in both tournaments. Thank you, to both (and all) promoters of these two events, to go out and get sponsorship for pool players to have an OPPORTUNITY to win some money.

It is amazing that these same "pro" pool players with there excessive demands come here to Vegas and play in poker tournaments paying (out of pocket)$300 to $1000 entry fees, with no sponsorship, no paid for goodies by the tournament host, taxi cab fare, hotel stay, food and play in a tournament that only pays the top 8%-10% of the field, while most pool tournaments pay anywhere from 40% to 50% of the field.

But, yet, they can't afford the expenses of traveling to something they actually excel at and demand someone else to pay the bills for them. There is plenty of time in the day to work a job and play pool.


Well, there are plenty of players willing to show up and win the money if they don't. Unless your name is Willie Mosconi, Minnesota Fats or Steve Mizerak, shut, pay your own way (or earn your sponsorship) and play.

What ever happened to the Camel Tour??

 

[Str8 Shots]

Kimberly

I think if you are a new promoter with a new event and you have scheduled your new event directly in conflict with an established and already popular event, you might find yourself getting worked a bit by players that all of a sudden are presented with two choices.

Its only natural. Seems to me that considering being new and wanting to be in a cooperative rather than immediately competitive situation, you might have done a better job with the scheduling, but probably that was impossible.

Kevin

We are not new to hosting events. We've actually had quite a few and proven ourselves to many pool players. We had an event the same weekend last year with Nick Varner. There was a waiting list for people to get into it. Our event last year had no impact on the Rum Runner event.

 

[kvinbrwr]

We are not new to hosting events. We've actually had quite a few and proven ourselves to many pool players. We had an event the same weekend last year with Nick Varner. There was a waiting list for people to get into it. Our event last year had no impact on the Rum Runner event.

Cool, you got it all going on. So when the pros call you to grind you to play in your event you can just tell them no. Which makes me wonder why post it at all?


Thanks

Kevin

 

[Celophanewrap]

From a local perspective, the only reason I'd play in the Varner is I live in Denver. However, I'm no where near the caliber of player that would play in either one of these tournaments, so maybe my thoughts on the matter are invalid. If I had the chance to watch either, I'd head to Las Vegas. March in Colorado is still pretty much winter time and in March the weather here is highly unstable. But given that this the only weekend that Mr. Varner has available (I think I read that a few pages back), I guess this is what we have. It would be really nice to see this tournament here in Colorado in the warmer months, sometime May - August. The weather in March can be nice, but it's iffy at best, but given the identical pay out and the identical cost, I'd have to go with the better weather. Besides that, if I come to Denver from somewhere else the accommodations may be a little easier on the wallet - at first glance, but the cost of accommodations in Las Vegas can usually be offset by using "frequent visitor" points and frankly, there is so much more in Las Vegas and while Felt is one of then better rooms I've ever been in (and I've been in a few...) it's not even in Denver, it's in Englewood, a suburb but still, several miles from stuff. In short, I guess for me, if I'm going somewhere whether it's for work or vacation of family or pool I'd like it to be a good experience and have nice weather. Rotten weather = rotten trip. So if I'm stuck in a bar or hotel in Englewood or Littleton Colorado, I can't think of much worse than looking out of a snowy or grey window thinking "I could be wearing shorts in a casino bar right now". I imagine you may get a few bigger names here in Colorado because the the money sounds easier, like most of the major competition will be in Las Vegas.
If the trip is free, I figure out a way to make it work, if the cost identical, I go to Las Vegas

 

[hang-the-9]

Still hard to read.

Still a DAMN CUTE KITTIE!

From a local perspective, the only reason I'd play in the Varner is I live in Denver. However, I'm no where the caliber of player that would play in either one of these tournaments, so maybe my thoughts on the matter are invalid. If I had the chance to watch either, I'd head to Las Vegas. March in Colorado is still pretty much winter time and in March the weather here is highly unstable. But given that this the only weekend that Mr. Varner has available (I think I read that a few pages back), I guess this is what we have. It would be really nice to see this tournament here in Colorado in the warmer months, sometime May - August. The weather in March can be nice, but it's iffy at best, but given the identical pay out and the identical cost, I'd have to go with the better weather. Besides that, if I come to Denver from somewhere else the accommodations may be a little easier on the wallet - at first glance, but the cost accommodations in Las Vegas can usually be offset by using "frequent visitor" points and frankly, there is so much more in Las Vegas and while Felt in one of then better rooms I've ever been in (and I've been in a few...) it's not even in Denver, it's in Englewood, a suburb but still, several miles from stuff. In short,I guess for me, if I'm going somewhere whether it's for work or vacation of family or pool I'd like it to be a good experience and nice weather. So if I'm stuck in a bar or hotel in Englewood or Littleton Colorado, I can't think of much worse than looking out of a snowy or grey window thinking "I could be wearing shorts in a casino bar right now". I imagine you get a few bigger names here in Colorado because the the money sounds easier.
If the trip is free, I figure out a way to make it work, if the cost identical, I go to Las Vegas

 

[Ken_4fun]

We are not new to hosting events. We've actually had quite a few and proven ourselves to many pool players. We had an event the same weekend last year with Nick Varner. There was a waiting list for people to get into it. Our event last year had no impact on the Rum Runner event.

Are you the same folks that screwed up the Schmitt/Harriman match?

Ken

 

[Johnnyt]

Str8tShots...Pay no attention to Hits Em Hard. He is not a pro player, and therefore has no say in your issues. You have done well to get any outside industry sponsorship. To the players who want you to "pay their expenses" to grace you with their presence...TELL THEM TO POUND SAND! The "entitlement attitude" that some of these pros have is astonishing at best, and deplorable at worst. Allen Hopkins has another pro event in Philly around the same time as yours. Do you think he's paying anyone's expenses to come play? NOPE! As far as how much $$$ you choose to add to an event, that is your call. The gigantic majority of cash tournaments in this country add little or nothing. The players are playing for the entry fees. That hasn't changed in 50 years. IF a promoter deems to add some money, how much and how it will be distributed is completely up to them. You don't like the rules...don't play. Simple as that. Best wishes in reaching your goals.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

She is asking AZB members...not pro players. Johnnyt

 

[Jesters]

Are you the same folks that screwed up the Schmitt/Harriman match?

Ken

Among other things Ken, This and the JS/DH match are not the only things from what I hear. But its not my business and its 2nd hand info but there is a pattern.

 

[dardusm]

The players are weighing the pro's and con's of which event to attend. The money looks to be similar and the same with expenses. The payouts are based off 25% of the field is the same. Of course, the Rum Runner is played on bar tables and your event is on 9 footers.

The problem is that the players will probably have about $1000 in expenses and will need to finish 4th in either event to break even or make a few $$$. It's tough nut to crack. They are taking a shot at reducing expenses. It is short sighted but I can somewhat understand their thinking.

I applaud you and your company for sponsoring players and running some bigger events. It's tough promoting pro pool events because there really isn't any money to be made. The players just want to play pool but just like baseball and football players in the early years today's pro players need to subsidize their tournament money with other forms of income such as lessons, exhibitions, jobs, etc.

 

[PINKLADY]

We are not new to hosting events. We've actually had quite a few and proven ourselves to many pool players. We had an event the same weekend last year with Nick Varner. There was a waiting list for people to get into it. Our event last year had no impact on the Rum Runner event.

so WHY, are you asking us for free ADVICE?

- this match was setup by Mark Cantrill months ago; different dates
- this match is being streamed by Justin @ TAR; no promos to him
- this match crosses w/ RumRunner's; established
- Justin/TAR & Mark Griffin have stated their opinions on BONUS BALL's conflicts
- some Pros have already been comped; they all talk to each other
- is your $$$$$ already in Trust, vs, RumRunners's credibility to pay on-the-spot?
- if Justin/TAR is part of this, then why isn't JUSTIN/TAR advising you?

regardless of WHAT/WHY these "pros" want,
you are apparently a business woman in the business of Pool Promotions now.
if you have to ask AZB for FREE ADVICE, then as a business woman, i would recommend that you hire someone who KNOWS the ins & outs of promoting....

.

 

[one stroke]

Are you the same folks that screwed up the Schmitt/Harriman match?

Ken

It was a pipe dream to think those 2 would play each other in the first place



1

 

[banditgrrr]

Just a few thoughts on the matter as I live in Las Vegas, play at Rum Runner frequently and have been to watch the Mercer for the last several years.

1. Comparing pool to golf is asinine. Period.

2. The Mercer is a well established event that started in 1991 and has been on the same exact weekend since as long as I can remember. Planning an event the same weekend is just piss poor planning-----ONLY if you're trying to draw the same players.

3. Las Vegas is a quick DRIVE, not flight, from Los Angeles and Phoenix. Therefore, top players from those areas can drive, and if they carpool, spend less than $20 in gas for transportation to the event.

4. For the last few years, there has been TONS of action around the Andy Mercer. Before, during and after, you can typically find the pros at 4-5 different pools halls gambling with each other or even some of the spectators (for the right spot). I'll also add that TAR had the Shaw/Alcano match right about the same time so there was even more action going on.

5. It will be interesting to see if any of the Str8 Shots sponsored players are going to play at the Rum Runner this year. I looked on the website and it seems that page is down so I can't see who all is sponsored. I know Shaw played last year and did pretty well outside the tournament.

6. The event was streamed 24/7 last year by POV Pool and Daniel did an awesome job in helping promote the event. There was late night action and even a 7 hour interview with Jimmy Mataya which you'd have to see to believe! This helped bring a little more awareness to the event.

7. If they're forced to make a decision, I think the pros would prefer to play in Las Vegas over Denver for the same reasons they'd prefer to live in Las Vegas over Denver. Plenty of gamble, the pool halls are open 24/7 and the weather is much better.


Of course I'm not a pro, but this is my take on the question you originally asked.

 

[jmurphy]

And if they were involved in any other sport they would get it all in spades. Not saying the pool pros should get it, but I certainly don't see the problem with them asking for it or trying to market themselves.

Try and get Phil Michelson to show at your event and be ready for an endless list of demands made by his reps while he's out smiling and signing autographs for kids. What's wrong with that?

Well said Kevin
In order to get lots of big name Pro Pool players to your tournament with First place money in the $5K range a real effort of coordination needs to happen to make it cost effective for the players to attend.
Denver is not that far from Vegas so maybe have some owners get together and kind of work tour schedule out between the Pool Rooms/Bars.
If the Bar & Pool Room owners in the same geographical area would work together it would be to ALL their benefits.
Call it the West Coast swing tour, this way the players could group up and travel together sharing expenses such as car & hotel etc........
Maybe something like having:
LA
Swanee

Bay Area CA.
Chet Itow

Denver
Varner event

Vegas
Rum Runner

Vegas
BCA

Try to work it out between the Owners/Promoters to schedule these events on or near consecutive weekends. Anyway that's just an idea off the top of my head for getting Big name players to your events.

 

[Johnnyt]

so WHY, are you asking us for free ADVICE?

- this match was setup by Mark Cantrill months ago; different dates
- this match is being streamed by Justin @ TAR; no promos to him
- this match crosses w/ RumRunner's; established
- Justin/TAR & Mark Griffin have stated their opinions on BONUS BALL's conflicts
- some Pros have already been comped; they all talk to each other
- is your $$$$$ already in Trust, vs, RumRunners's credibility to pay on-the-spot?
- if Justin/TAR is part of this, then why isn't JUSTIN/TAR advising you?

regardless of WHAT/WHY these "pros" want,
you are apparently a business woman in the business of Pool Promotions now.
if you have to ask AZB for FREE ADVICE, then as a business woman, i would recommend that you hire someone who KNOWS the ins & outs of promoting....

.

You're right of coarse. I too don't understand why she comes on here with this stuff. Johnnyt

 

[jmurphy]

Been to the Rum Runner many times. I can count on one hand the top level pros I've seen there. It's really not an issue in this context.

Really?
Last year alone had 4 US Open 9Ball champs.
SVB
Daren Appleton
Rodney Morris
Jeremy Jones
Plus
Jason Shaw
Ronnie Alcano
Ernesto Dominguez
Oscar Dominguez
Sal Butera
Max Eberle

and that's just the ones I could think of off the top of my head.