Weight needed for C-player against pro

[cleary]

I just love how some of you say you'll take the 5 from a pro and can win... You're certainly not a C player if that's the case.

Shane just gave Corey Deuel the 5 & 6 and beat him. I watched Jayson Shaw give Frankie Hernadez the 5ball and break even. Imagine what they could give you.

 

[Push&Pool]

I recently had a discussion w/ a pro about what kind of weight I would need. I used to be a mid-B, but I only play maybe once every few months now and that is after a layoff of nearly ten years. I would say I'm probably a C of some sort now. I said to him, "I wouldn't play you even if you gave me the wild 5-and-out, all the breaks, ball-in-hand after the break and the wild balls count on the break." He said he couldn't give me that kind of weight. I said, "Bullshit!" for 2 main reasons:

1) I assume he thought I was stupid.
2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?

I hate all this weight stuff, handicaps etc. No matter who I play against (unless I played for money, which I never do), I always want an even ground. Winning even against a world champion wouldn't feel right if I started out with 2 balls on the table, or I had to win only 1 match while he had to beat me in 10. It would be kind of cheating. If I had to play someone 50 miles above me, I'd want to play by different rules instead. For example:
- no BiH
- slop counts
- CB goes to the kitchen/spot after scratch
- no requirement to hit a ball/rail etc.

It would be a fair fight as the rules would apply to both of us, but in reality I'd be the one who'd benefit a lot more from that situation. It would lower the requirement for advanced skill play, even out the playing field, and now the winner would either have to be a better tactician and general strategist, or get more lucky. He's still have an obvious advantage, but let's just say that if we played by official rules my chances would be around 1%, while in this situation they could rise to at least 15%.

 

[sjm]

My view is that a "C" player needs 10 games on the wire in a race to 13 against a strong, but not top, pro.

 

[bdorman]

Asking for weight is basically saying "Okay, I know I'm not better than this person and I'm too lazy to practice and improve enough to play even with him, so let me make the game totally unfair in my favor". Just try to get better instead of asking for them to give up the world, I mean then what's the point of even playing the game?

Well, we can assume the game is to be played on the same day (or thereabouts) as the spot is negotiated. I doubt the "weightee" will be able to "practice and improve" enough to play straight-up with his opponent in so short a period of time.

It's said over and over again the the various "Rhea" threads that successful matching up (gambling) is an art of negotiation. If the "Pro" doesn't like the spot, he can recommend a different one.

 

[Spimp13]

I just love how some of you say you'll take the 5 from a pro and can win... You're certainly not a C player if that's the case.

Shane just gave Corey Deuel the 5 & 6 and beat him. I watched Jayson Shaw give Frankie Hernadez the 5ball and break even. Imagine what they could give you.

To be fair I included the very key additions "and the break" and "barbox"...I am favored here...big table, me no likey.

 

[bdorman]

There is no weight that is reasonable that you can get to make a fair game.

For anyone to win against a pro, they need a game that they can get out with 90+% of the time. The sad truth is that players below B+,A- are just too inconsistent for a game like that to exist that is also not a lock up nuts game for them.

IOW any game that you can get against someone at that level is gonna be you trying to outrun the nuts.

Jaden

Exactly. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the variance between the players is simply too wide to calculate a meaningful handicap.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

I recently had a discussion w/ a pro about what kind of weight I would need. I used to be a mid-B, but I only play maybe once every few months now and that is after a layoff of nearly ten years. I would say I'm probably a C of some sort now. I said to him, "I wouldn't play you even if you gave me the wild 5-and-out, all the breaks, ball-in-hand after the break and the wild balls count on the break." He said he couldn't give me that kind of weight. I said, "Bullshit!" for 2 main reasons:

1) I assume he thought I was stupid.
2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?

Take your money and pay for lessons instead of trying to get a ridiculous spot. Remember, at the end of the day we play the game because we enjoy it. Try not to forget that. Matchup with somebody close to your speed so you can play a fun competitive game.

 

[CreeDo]

Ball spots and even the break are kind of deceptive.
Games on the wire is a little more sensible (see SJM's post).

Here's a pretty interesting account of a C/B player vs. Shane and Busty, getting massive weight.
Dippy Dave played 3 sets. These are the details (to the best of my knowledge)

First 2 sets, for $10,000 each vs. Shane:

• The breaks
• BIH after the breaks
• The last 4
• 7 on the wire going to 13.

Shane won both. Dippy made it to the hill one of these sets while Shane needed to win 4 games.
So I'd say this is close, but maybe favors Shane a bit since the 2nd set wasn't as close.

Third set, for $50,000 vs. Busty.

• The breaks
• BIH after the breaks
• The last 4
• The call 4-ball
• 18 on the wire going to 40.

Once again, Dave hits the hill while his opponent needs 4 racks, but this time Dave wins.

So the OP's spot is not really out of line. I think top pros could give a C player that spot
and win, assuming Dippy Dave is correctly clocked as AT LEAST a C player.
And that's not even factoring in the shakes. Dippy plays for big money
routinely and is a pro poker player. Some random C player from your local pool room
might choke a few shots that Dippy made, because they're not used to playing for big money like he is.

It does depend on a few critical things tho -
If the table's breaking easy and there are lots of 'golden breaks', they might need to remove
the 'wild balls count on the break' spot. The pro definitely can't allow the C player
to rack his own and determine the racking order.

And no matter what, the length of the race needs to be long enough.

 

[genomachino]

Better off not playing unless cheap......

I recently had a discussion w/ a pro about what kind of weight I would need. I used to be a mid-B, but I only play maybe once every few months now and that is after a layoff of nearly ten years. I would say I'm probably a C of some sort now. I said to him, "I wouldn't play you even if you gave me the wild 5-and-out, all the breaks, ball-in-hand after the break and the wild balls count on the break." He said he couldn't give me that kind of weight. I said, "Bullshit!" for 2 main reasons:

1) I assume he thought I was stupid.
2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?

Because it doesn't matter what the spot is. The better player usually won't over spot and the best you can do is win a couple of sets until the spot gets adjusted.

Play cheap and get a good spot and enjoy.

Win win all around.......

 

[Donkin the 8]

I love the part about if the pro runs out and he will start crying lol

 

[Matt]

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?

If you get all the breaks and BIH after the break as part of the spot, the only balls you need are whatever it takes for you to beat the ghost, and that's assuming that said pro always wins any rack where you miss. If you are a C player and lose with that to anyone, even a pro, it's all in your head.

 

[Matt]

Here's a pretty interesting account of a C/B player vs. Shane and Busty, getting massive weight.
Dippy Dave played 3 sets. These are the details (to the best of my knowledge)

First 2 sets, for $10,000 each vs. Shane:

• The breaks
• BIH after the breaks
• The last 4
• 7 on the wire going to 13.

Shane won both. Dippy made it to the hill one of these sets while Shane needed to win 4 games.
So I'd say this is close, but maybe favors Shane a bit since the 2nd set wasn't as close.

That's a good example of what I was saying in my last post. From what I understand, Dippy plays well enough that he should be favored against the ghost in a 6-13 race with the last 4, but he obviously didn't play that well in this case. If he had, it wouldn't matter what Shane did. Funny things happen when you put enough cash on the line and a pool machine in the opposite corner.

 

[Eric.]

2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

Neither is Scooter Goodman.


Eric

 

[Cornerman]

I recently had a discussion w/ a pro about what kind of weight I would need. I used to be a mid-B, but I only play maybe once every few months now and that is after a layoff of nearly ten years. I would say I'm probably a C of some sort now. I said to him, "I wouldn't play you even if you gave me the wild 5-and-out, all the breaks, ball-in-hand after the break and the wild balls count on the break." He said he couldn't give me that kind of weight. I said, "Bullshit!" for 2 main reasons:

1) I assume he thought I was stupid.
2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?

Congratulations. You just one-upped Deathball.

Freddie

 

[Cornerman]

I wouldn't have to do anything but break with the wild five and out with the balls counting on the break to win 40-50% of every game I play....

Jaden

Might as well have rack-your-own, too!!!

 

[peteypooldude]

I didn't read any of the other post but in my opinion
The break with BIH and the 5 ball. If you run your 5 balls you can win and if not you will lose

 

[Rjmoncrief]

Is this a fairly agreed on assessment of a C and B player everywhere? I play 95% 8b and might try this race against the ghost. Do I break with 6 balls or just throw it out randomly. Then I can say I'm a east coast B player.

Regardless of what the ball amount is......9,6,4, etc.
Break with all balls, ball in hand after the break, miss u lose. Scratching on break doesn't matter. I think the assessment you mentioned is a little weak myself. I just beat the ghost in 9 ball 10-6. I posted video's for watchers to rate my speed. Some said C, a few said B. I think it was a fair assessment of my game right now. I got some great feedback and some suggestions on what to work on.
I know that I can beat the ghost in 6 ball more than half the time. And confident I can beat the ghost in 4 ball 80-90% of the time. I think skill assessments are a little different depending on where u play. Good luck with ur game......:thumbup:

 

[takeitdown]

Congratulations. You just one-upped Deathball.

Freddie

Thats saying a lot!
" I cant play no damn pool, but I will if you give me the 7 out for $1000"! As many events as I have seen him, never seen him hit a ball. Sure to see him at SBE.

 

[takeitdown]

Regardless of what the ball amount is......9,6,4, etc.
Break with all balls, ball in hand after the break, miss u lose. Scratching on break doesn't matter. I think the assessment you mentioned is a little weak myself. I just beat the ghost in 9 ball 10-6. I posted video's for watchers to rate my speed. Some said C, a few said B. I think it was a fair assessment of my game right now. I got some great feedback and some suggestions on what to work on.
I know that I can beat the ghost in 6 ball more than half the time. And confident I can beat the ghost in 4 ball 80-90% of the time. I think skill assessments are a little different depending on where u play. Good luck with ur game......:thumbup:

That makes you at least a weak A.
C players lose to the ghost with ball in hand 4 out of 5 games,never win.
If you can break and beat ghost in a race to 5 or more onfamiliar equipment you are an A. Funny there are still 12 levels to SVB!

 

[Straightpool_99]

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