Alex Pagulayan going to UK to try pro snooker

Q School is in May.
A good warm-up for

The Canadian Championship in June:

The 2014 CBSA Open & Senior Snooker Championships will be hosted by The Corner Bank in Toronto. The Corner Bank is located at 925 Warden Avenue E. - corner of Warden and Ashtonbee Avenues. This new room is destined to become one of Toronto's premier cue sport facilities. Owned and operated by John White and Jim Wych, the Corner Bank will offer 8 Shender snooker tables. The Corner Bank will be well equipped to meet the needs of players and fans alike. Boasting just under 14,000 sq.ft. there will be plenty of space for all snooker enthusiasts to watch the best players in the country compete for national glory. The planned opening for The Corner Bank is late March. Once opened all information can be obtained by visiting www.thecornerbank.ca.

Sunday, June 1 to Saturday, June 7 - Open Snooker

Q School is a direct way to the tour, but the Canadian Championship offers a second route:

Prize pool will include expense funds for two people to represent Canada at 2014 IBSF World Snooker Championships, another route to the tour.

When Alex won the Canadian Championship there was no money included for the IBSF World Snooker Championships, and Alex declined.

So going to Q School will give Alex an opportunity to judge for himself his chances, as compared to believing the pontifications - for and against - posted around here.

The format on the tour has changed. The vast majority of tournaments now have a flat draw, rather than giving the top ranked players byes to later rounds. Consequently, the new kids, if they get hot, can make money and climb the rankings quickly, since there are more tournaments and they have to play fewer matches to reach the lucrative end of the draw.

As for the age thing, there have been a few players who blossomed only when the number of tournaments increased. For example:

Mark Davis - 42 #13
Stuart Bingham - 38 #6
 
Cliff Thorburn did all rigjt for himseIf think that if anyone can break into it, Alex can.
 
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one stroke said:
IMHO it's a much easier transition from snooker to pool than the other way around
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..and history supports your opinion.

Answer this: How many snooker players have made successful transitions to pool?
I can name quite a few that have won championships.

Answer this: How many pool players have made successful transitions to snooker?
I can't name one that has won even a qualifying tournament.
 
one stroke said:
IMHO it's a much easier transition from snooker to pool than the other way around


1
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That's a fact. When I hear folks say that so-and-so pool player played a champion-caliber snooker player and beat him/her, an eyebrow raises up in dubious disbelief. It's evidence enough when Corey Deuel tried his hand at snooker in the amateur ranks, and although he did ok, a pre-teen took him out. Where was that irrespective-of-cue-discipline "champion extra something" that should've -- according to one poster here -- gotten Corey over the finish line? And that was amateur ranks.

Pool players and enthusiasts really don't know how much more difficult it is to excel in snooker over pool, and how much more demanding the fundamentals are. No less than Darren Appleton complained about why he dislikes the 10-foot Diamond tables (in a TAR interview), because, in his words, these tables demand better fundamentals than a 9-foot table. And that's still in the pool realm. Forget regulation 12-foot snooker tables.

Anyway, history shows that snooker players have a much easier time coming over to pool, than pool players over to snooker, "champion" or no. The only pool players of note that tried their hand in snooker at the pro level, are Steve Mizerak, Jim Rempe, and Oliver Ortmann. Most (like Mizerak and Ortmann) were challenge matches. I wouldn't even count Corey Deuel's foray into snooker, because that was done at the amateur ranks -- anything can happen there, because the mix of skillsets is variable and runs the gamut. Pro-level is another story altogether.

Having said all that, I wish Alex the best. I hope he makes it through Q-school!

-Sean
 
Didn't the Canadian champion usually get a seat into the UK tour?

I thought that i'd heard that when Alex won and that he decided to decline the seat and let the second place guy go.
 
sfleinen said:
That's a fact. When I hear folks say that so-and-so pool player played a champion-caliber snooker player and beat him/her, an eyebrow raises up in dubious disbelief. It's evidence enough when Corey Deuel tried his hand at snooker in the amateur ranks, and although he did ok, a pre-teen took him out. Where was that irrespective-of-cue-discipline "champion extra something" that should've -- according to one poster here -- gotten Corey over the finish line? And that was amateur ranks.

Pool players and enthusiasts really don't know how much more difficult it is to excel in snooker over pool, and how much more demanding the fundamentals are. No less than Darren Appleton complained about why he dislikes the 10-foot Diamond tables (in a TAR interview), because, in his words, these tables demand better fundamentals than a 9-foot table. And that's still in the pool realm. Forget regulation 12-foot snooker tables.

Anyway, history shows that snooker players have a much easier time coming over to pool, than pool players over to snooker, "champion" or no. The only pool players of note that tried their hand in snooker at the pro level, are Steve Mizerak, Jim Rempe, and Oliver Ortmann. Most (like Mizerak and Ortmann) were challenge matches. I wouldn't even count Corey Deuel's foray into snooker, because that was done at the amateur ranks -- anything can happen there, because the mix of skillsets is variable and runs the gamut. Pro-level is another story altogether.

Having said all that, I wish Alex the best. I hope he makes it through Q-school!

-Sean
Click to expand...


I should get Keith to post about when a Canadian snooker champion who came to California and played him some pool.

The Canadian snooker champion was busted and disgusted and left town.
 
Alex and pro snooker

I'm shocked at the amount of interest and the replies already going on this thread. i felt I had to chime in.

I played professional snooker for 17 years and did break into the top 20 in the world rankings in the early 80's. The game has changed drastically since my time there and I saw that first hand as I commentated on snooker for 7 years from 90-97. I witnessed the domination of Hendry and the coming out parties for the likes of Ronnie, John Higgins, and Mark Williams to name a few. The one thing that Alex has, that a couple of you have touched on, is his mental toughness. That is massive in professional snooker because it can make you feel like you have just gone ten rounds with Tyson after every match you play. What Alex has had to fade in professional pool, in my opinion, is much tougher than anything he will fade in snooker. From a mental standpoint. I have seen more goofy things happen in one pool tournament than I ever saw in ten seasons of playing professional snooker, and that is a fact. And the top pool players fade this every event. In pool against the best players in the world you can get beat without ever making a mistake. You can't say that in snooker.
Now from a fundamental standpoint, thats a different story. But thats what Alex will need to work and improve on. But everyone that knows the lion will tell you one thing with absolute certainty, he loves a challenge. Well thats exactly what this is to him, a challenge. I told him yesterday that he is going to be up against hungry and talented young players from all over the world. His reply - perfect!

This Q school will all boil down to experience for him and if he fails this year, only a guy angry at his money would bet against him next year. And knowing Alex as well as I do, he may be the first one entered next year if he doesn't make it this year.
He is mid thirties now, but a young mid thirties and I for one couldn't be more behind his quest.
Cue sports needs people like him in it be it snooker or pool and all of this will only make him a better player all around and more determined than ever to succeed.

And as one poster eluded to, he is back playing a sport that God gave him the talent to play and we all benefit from that. If its got pockets and involves a cue, he's at home.

Jim Wych
 
JAM said:
I should get Keith to post about when a Canadian snooker champion who came to California and played him some pool.

The Canadian snooker champion was busted and disgusted and left town.
Click to expand...

Ah, there's the difference -- the snooker player was playing Keith *pool*. I'll bet if the reverse were true -- Keith playing the snooker player at the snooker player's own game, on a 12-foot table -- Keith wouldn't have liked it.

It is true that a pool champion has that extra something that shows itself whenever playing pool. But that extra something is not transferrable to other cue disciplines. That's my point.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Ah, there's the difference -- the snooker player was playing Keith *pool*. I'll bet if the reverse were true -- Keith playing the snooker player at the snooker player's own game, on a 12-foot table -- Keith wouldn't have liked it.

It is true that a pool champion has that extra something that shows itself whenever playing pool. But that extra something is not transferrable to other cue disciplines. That's my point.

-Sean
Click to expand...

And my point is that if any pool champion put his mind into playing champion snooker, he can most definitely do so. To date, none have shown much interest in snooker, with the exception of Alex and Corey.

BTW, the snooker champion that got spanked by Keith was Cliff Thorburn. He was a champion snooker player at the time. They played payball on a 5-x-10 snooker table. Robbed him.

ETA: Keith just chimed in and said that back then, the snooker players used to play on 6-by-12 snooker tables with bigger pockets. So when Cliff Thorburn played on a 5-by-10 snooker table with smaller pockets, Keith played him 6-ball, sort of like playing 9-ball, and that's how Keith got the game down.
 
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J.W. said:
I'm shocked at the amount of interest and the replies already going on this thread. i felt I had to chime in.

I played professional snooker for 17 years and did break into the top 20 in the world rankings in the early 80's. The game has changed drastically since my time there and I saw that first hand as I commentated on snooker for 7 years from 90-97. I witnessed the domination of Hendry and the coming out parties for the likes of Ronnie, John Higgins, and Mark Williams to name a few. The one thing that Alex has, that a couple of you have touched on, is his mental toughness. That is massive in professional snooker because it can make you feel like you have just gone ten rounds with Tyson after every match you play. What Alex has had to fade in professional pool, in my opinion, is much tougher than anything he will fade in snooker. From a mental standpoint. I have seen more goofy things happen in one pool tournament than I ever saw in ten seasons of playing professional snooker, and that is a fact. And the top pool players fade this every event. In pool against the best players in the world you can get beat without ever making a mistake. You can't say that in snooker.
Now from a fundamental standpoint, thats a different story. But thats what Alex will need to work and improve on. But everyone that knows the lion will tell you one thing with absolute certainty, he loves a challenge. Well thats exactly what this is to him, a challenge. I told him yesterday that he is going to be up against hungry and talented young players from all over the world. His reply - perfect!

This Q school will all boil down to experience for him and if he fails this year, only a guy angry at his money would bet against him next year. And knowing Alex as well as I do, he may be the first one entered next year if he doesn't make it this year.
He is mid thirties now, but a young mid thirties and I for one couldn't be more behind his quest.
Cue sports needs people like him in it be it snooker or pool and all of this will only make him a better player all around and more determined than ever to succeed.

And as one poster eluded to, he is back playing a sport that God gave him the talent to play and we all benefit from that. If its got pockets and involves a cue, he's at home.

Jim Wych
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Jim:

There are a lot of folks behind Alex in this very thread -- including myself. Alex's mental toughness was/is never in question. It will definitely help him, that's for sure. And of all the pool pros on the scene right now, Alex has the leg up over all of them, because he at least has a snooker background.

What is in question, is this general belief that a pool champion (any pool champion) has that "what it takes" quality to succeed in snooker. Many here (with snooker backgrounds, like myself) believe that's not true. Alex has that leg up over other pool pros, because he has the background he does, and already has stronger fundamentals than most pool pros. As you say, he just needs to shore them up a bit to compete against full-time pro-circuit players.

Again, keeping my fingers crossed that Alex does well -- I'm a big fan!
-Sean
 
I've played Alex at both snooker and pool. In fact, there's a video of Alex playing Tom Finstad in the finals of the Canadian national championship and I'm doing the commentary. I've also played both Kirk Stevens and Cliff Thorburn a few times and I've been following and watching pro snooker since the 80s. I can tell you this: like Jim, I think Alex has all the skills necessary to be competitive with about anyone in snooker. His shot making and cue ball control are both stellar, and when it comes to safety his one pocket knowledge will be a big ace, and he'll bring a lot of shots to his matches that his opponents have never seen before. (Whoever said he moves around on his shots is nuts, because his snooker fundamentals are 100% rock solid.) The biggest unknown factors will be in his long potting which for him is probably the biggest weakness, and in break building, which for you non snooker aficionados is the ability to basically run balls, opening the table up in the right way to turn a small chance into a big 'break'. Based on what I've seen from Alex I'd rate him at good to very good at break building (he has three or four 147s, I believe, and probably a few hundred centuries) but lots of the UK players are absolute masters at it.

His biggest asset is going to be in the mental side of things. There aren't going to be too many players in the Q-school, or even in the qualifying for that matter, who have US Open and world titles under their belts, and most will only have a fraction of his tournament experience, to say nothing of his road work. Heck, for a lot of the Q-school players this may well be their first major event! He'll eat players like that for breakfast. When the big audiences or TV cameras show up it will favour him even more. Lots of players wilt in that kind of environment, whereas Alex will absolutely thrive on it.

One thing is for sure; IF Alex can be competitive and IF he can rise in the rankings to make some TV appearances, he is going to make an absolute PILE of money! The audiences over there are going to absolutely love him and he'll make just a ton of cash off the table in appearances and exhibitions., to say nothing of what he can make from the tournaments. I think if you're a wise investor now would be a good time to buy some stock in some of the major London casinos ;)
 
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JAM said:
The point here, my little GREEN Grasshopper, champions know ...
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lol ... Condescending much ? It is so unbecoming.

Alex must have a fine snooker game to win consecutive Canadian Championships. However I know a fellow who also won the Canadians, and went to the UK to play pro snooker ... he returned about 6 months later never having made it out of the qualifiers.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
lol ... Condescending much ? It is so unbecoming.

Alex must have a fine snooker game to win consecutive Canadian Championships. However I know a fellow who also won the Canadians, and went to the UK to play pro snooker ... he returned about 6 months later never having made it out of the qualifiers.

Dave
Click to expand...

There's a lot that is unbecoming on this forum in recent times; thus, why many of us have ceased posting here as often. :smile:

Just because one can raise hell on RSB doesn't mean one can do it here. Right, Dave?
 
I'm glad Alex is going to give it a whirl.

I'm also happy to see Jimmy Wych pop in to offer his view - he's been there, and done it. If he thinks The Lion has a shot, well...
 
So all you Naysayers seem to think that the snooker greats have some God given ability that the rest of the world doesnt have. How did they get good at the game,they played it for years,worked on their fundamentals,learned from playing better players,had coaches. WTH you dont think that these great pool players can convert to snooker. I agree with JAM about champions man,they find a way to excel at whatever they do,and i believe they can be top tier if they want it bad enough. I am a good "B" player in pool,but i have played on tight snooker tables in the past when i played and scored 30 to 40 points everytime at the table,and i didnt even play that much. I think the top pool players can learn to score big runs once they play for a while,especially with a 15 cherry rack,so what else is there. The Europeans dont have superhuman eyesight,or nerves or brains or mechanics,so whats makes one think they cant compete. If they havent in the past its only because they havent truely wanted to,probably because they knew they could come back here and win at any time,so they gave up. I think if Alex puts his mind to it, all those top snooker players better watch their asses,because he will be taking chunks out of them and spoiling their tea parties...;)
 
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J.W. said:
I'm shocked at the amount of interest and the replies already going on this thread. i felt I had to chime in.

I played professional snooker for 17 years and did break into the top 20 in the world rankings in the early 80's. The game has changed drastically since my time there and I saw that first hand as I commentated on snooker for 7 years from 90-97. I witnessed the domination of Hendry and the coming out parties for the likes of Ronnie, John Higgins, and Mark Williams to name a few. The one thing that Alex has, that a couple of you have touched on, is his mental toughness. That is massive in professional snooker because it can make you feel like you have just gone ten rounds with Tyson after every match you play. What Alex has had to fade in professional pool, in my opinion, is much tougher than anything he will fade in snooker. From a mental standpoint. I have seen more goofy things happen in one pool tournament than I ever saw in ten seasons of playing professional snooker, and that is a fact. And the top pool players fade this every event. In pool against the best players in the world you can get beat without ever making a mistake. You can't say that in snooker.
Now from a fundamental standpoint, thats a different story. But thats what Alex will need to work and improve on. But everyone that knows the lion will tell you one thing with absolute certainty, he loves a challenge. Well thats exactly what this is to him, a challenge. I told him yesterday that he is going to be up against hungry and talented young players from all over the world. His reply - perfect!

This Q school will all boil down to experience for him and if he fails this year, only a guy angry at his money would bet against him next year. And knowing Alex as well as I do, he may be the first one entered next year if he doesn't make it this year.
He is mid thirties now, but a young mid thirties and I for one couldn't be more behind his quest.
Cue sports needs people like him in it be it snooker or pool and all of this will only make him a better player all around and more determined than ever to succeed.

And as one poster eluded to, he is back playing a sport that God gave him the talent to play and we all benefit from that. If its got pockets and involves a cue, he's at home.

Jim Wych
Click to expand...

JIMBO! My old buddy. Well, Alex has some hurdles for sure to overcome for this venture but having said that so does everyone else at Q School. Experience for some and concentration for others and just plain ability for some others. However If Jimbo thinks he has a shot then its really hard to go against his opinion on this matter. I can argue with Jim on many topics but on this one I know my place. So I just wish Alex the best and hope he does well but there is 2 sides to this. It could be a win/lose for us fans. The money is MUCH better for snooker than it is for Pool, so if he does make it I don't think we will be seeing much of him in the pool world and so we lose that but we gain the chance to maybe have more interest in snooker and support him there.
 
In 5 years Alex will be the top snooker player on the planet.
He's going to make these ball potters cry uncle. GO LION.....
 
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