Pool "Secrets" Found on AZ
- Thread starter ghost ball
- Start date
I highly respect Dr. Dave and his wealth of knowledge. I say my opinion for sake of what I perceive accurate on the thin cut topic based on many hours of trial, if I find out I am wrong I will be first to admit it.
Thank you for your reply.
I would agree with this.
Evidently some people are too lazy or hard-headed to watch and learn.
For those who care, the shot was played with as much left side spin as possible and just a hair below center. The cue stick is as level as possible and resting on the pocket liner. The object ball went into the tough side of the 4.25-inch pocket on the final shot. An earlier shot on the video that didn't reach the pocket was about a 100-degree cut. Dave Brubeck rules.
Your experiments did not lead you to the truth. With inside english it's hard to tell whether there is throw or not. With outside english the only way you can cut the ball more than 90 degrees (with a level cue stick) is with throw. It is possible to cut the object ball more than 90 degrees.
The other way to look at this is if the object ball acquires spin then it must also be thrown. The two necessarily go together in a fixed ratio. Conversely, if a ball is thrown, it will have side spin. That's from relatively simple physics.
Enjoyed the music at least as much as the pool!
Ed! Long time, no post! How's life in Wisconsin?
Nothing personal, it is only pool talk, your stroke steers the cue ball to the left a bit on a medium to hard stroke, so as Dr. Dave's which lead you to believe it is english effect, it is not. Try the cut from the opposite angle and let me see you over cut a thin cut.
If you think outside english doesn't help you cut a ball thinner, then try Vern Elliot's
'impossible bank' with INSIDE english.....you will find that it's truly impossible.
FYI, when we are comparing how much one type of shot throws compared to another, we are assuming the CB is hitting the OB in the same place (in the same ghost-ball position) in the comparison. In other words, we are assuming the player's aim is accurate and compensates for squirt and swerve.
FYI, all of the effects involving squirt, swerve, and throw are summarized (with supporting resources) here:
squirt, swerve, and throw effects resource page
And the following two videos summarize many of the important effects fairly well:
NV B.70 - Squirt (cue ball deflection), swerve, and throw, from VEPS II
NV B.86 - Cut-induced throw (CIT) and spin-induced throw (SIT), from VEPS IV
Even if you have seen these videos before, please watch them again with all of the questions in this thread in mind. I think the videos answer all of the questions fairly convincingly.
Catch you later,
Dave
For those interested, here's the outside-english version:
HSV A.142 - Vernon Elliott cross-side bank with chalk on the object ball to increase throw and spin transfer
Enjoy,
Dave
Thanx, Doc, you're the best.
..and I'm pleased to see you using 'english' with a small 'e'. :smile:
FYI, a better version, with narration, can be found at the 1:09 point in:
NV B.92 - "Impossible" cut shots, from VEPS V
Enjoy,
Dave
It took me a long time to buy into this, and the BD editors still don't like it, but I think it is better. I changed partly in tribute to Tom Ross who was always trying to convince me to change. He was right.
Regards,
Dave
buddy
I find myself quoting Buddy Hall a lot to the 8-ball leaguers....
..."Don't play position when you already got it."
i ask buddy last time i saw him at shooters in olatha if he really said this, he just looked at me and said, of course, if you got shape already, then you dont have to play it.
but he did say, ' if its close, but it looks like it might go, it will '
I find myself quoting Buddy Hall a lot to the 8-ball leaguers....
..."Don't play position when you already got it."
i ask buddy last time i saw him at shooters in olatha if he really said this, he just looked at me and said, of course, if you got shape already, then you dont have to play it.
but he did say, ' if its close, but it looks like it might go, it will '
Thin cuts will spin the object ball on very thin cut, but will not throw it.
OB throw to the rail due to collision and then bounced off the rail it is not due to english throw.
Anybody can just say stuff. You have to back it up.
"People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."
Andy Rooney