Mosconi Cup, Team USA, the real problem still exists.

[smashmouth]

I'm no convinced Fats could pull off his schtick today without backing it up on the table which he could never do in a world class tourney, and exhibition matches wouldn't fly either

Mosconi having the personality of a doorknob would not have done much either a far as the state of the game

now a guy like Harold Worst.......now we're talkin

 

[PINKLADY]

my intro to pool

for what it's worth, here are 2 short stories about marketing. while i've been playing since i was 16 in Detroit, and met some guy named Earl when i was 22 (cause he wouldn't get out of my way when shooting) - it wasn't until 2.5yrs ago, that i even had a clue about "pros" and "tourneys" and i had a "connection":

OCT 2011 - KK9 & buddies did their annual trip to the US Open. when he got home, i asked if Tiger Woods had won? KK9 looked at me like i'd lost my mind....

DEC 2011 - KK9 was watching some Mosconi stream at 10pm. i asked what that was (see above cause i learned my lesson!). he said, "ït's THE OLYMPICS of POOL". we landed in Vegas @ 9am.

Mosconi Cup, was my 1st intro to the real pool world. and O.M.G. it ruined me for all other tourneys. the dynamics inhouse, the background on the players, the banter w/ the Brits, celebrating w/ Team EUR (cause we are good sports!) - exhilarating doesn't even begin to cover it....

my point is marketing. i know that Matchroom doesn't want to pay the US royalties for the music during stream, but if they/SkySports would only open it up & televise here, i think they might be pleasantly surprised in their return. likewise, yáll should experience the real thing.

 

[one stroke]

for what it's worth, here are 2 short stories about marketing. while i've been playing since i was 16 in Detroit, and met some guy named Earl when i was 22 (cause he wouldn't get out of my way when shooting) - it wasn't until 2.5yrs ago, that i even had a clue about "pros" and "tourneys" and i had a "connection":

OCT 2011 - KK9 & buddies did their annual trip to the US Open. when he got home, i asked if Tiger Woods had won? KK9 looked at me like i'd lost my mind....

DEC 2011 - KK9 was watching some Mosconi stream at 10pm. i asked what that was (see above cause i learned my lesson!). he said, "ït's THE OLYMPICS of POOL". we landed in Vegas @ 9am.

Mosconi Cup, was my 1st intro to the real pool world. and O.M.G. it ruined me for all other tourneys. the dynamics inhouse, the background on the players, the banter w/ the Brits, celebrating w/ Team EUR (cause we are good sports!) - exhilarating doesn't even begin to cover it....

my point is marketing. i know that Matchroom doesn't want to pay the US royalties for the music during stream, but if they/SkySports would only open it up & televise here, i think they might be pleasantly surprised in their return. likewise, yáll should experience the real thing.

It's brand affiliation at its finest it's a easy sell ,,with a series of commercials with past clips Americans will watch

1

 

[CJ Wiley]

Not just "a show"........"THE SHOW" LoL

I accept your apology.

My bad CJ, I forgot to mention that it was when we went for the dinner, not at the dinner.

 

[CJ Wiley]

they only captured about 50% of the potential

Yes, the best way is to always go "with the grain," not against it. Pool has some really special assets that have not been brought into the spotlight except in the movies 'The Hustler' and 'The Color of Money' and they only captured about 50% of the potential.

'The Godfather' is what led to 'The Sopranos' - this should be a "sample example"

I agree with CJ.

Why "market or change" pool to suit tv audiences? Pool is what it is. If people don't want to watch it on the telly box, so be it.

It is what it is.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the Mosconi Cup is a great show.

I agree, the Mosconi Cup is a great show....it was actually better back in 1996 when they used the artificial smoke in the intros, and that's another story.

Matching is leading and leading is matching.
But I digress.
The Mosconi Cup is an ideal tv production, and has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that no 'underbellyish' elements are necessary to promote the sport with a high degree of success, both monetarily and in terms of respect and pride.

The title is respected, the team spots are coveted, its a fierce rivalry and is marketed as such, and it has astounding viewership, its dam near perfect.....and it has not a speckle of underbelly in it anywhere. God himself watches the Mosconi Cup.

This is the type of attention pool needs to build membership, build positive sponsor relations, and stay strong in the long run, not another flash in the pan.

 

[leto1776]

Once again, CJ excels in making a thread about himself.

Whether or not the MC is just a tv show or not has nothing to do with half the team sitting out the China invitational.

 

[takeitdown]

You guys and these saving pool threads. Nobody cares about it but the few who still play. It's not the same. Even the handicapping and league BS isn't real pool. It's a fringe sport just embrace that. Really doesn't matter if it were on TV or not.

 

[Mr. Bond]

Yes, the best way is to always go "with the grain," not against it. Pool has some really special assets that have not been brought into the spotlight except in the movies 'The Hustler' and 'The Color of Money' and they only captured about 50% of the potential.

'The Godfather' is what led to 'The Sopranos' - this should be a "sample example"

And school shootings are at an all time high. Video games with violence probably sell the most. Bullying is such an issue that there are actually marketing campaigns to stop it. Gang life is as strong as it ever was, and McDonalds target market is children eating more crap. Can you say " mommy I wanna be a hustler? "

Maybe it's time to set a better example and a higher standard, rather than exemplify bar-room gambling and misbehaving adults.

Listen to me sounding like captain prude over here. I have to laugh at myself sometimes lol.

Don't misunderstand what I'm getting at, a good production needs characters etc etc. Pool is overflowing with characters. But in all actuality, the elements of pool that may sell the most are not the same as the elements that will build a stronger industry overall.

Getting some kids into the halls to act like Tom Cruise will not bring about a professional tour, or heighten the level at which our pros compete on the world stage. ( And technically it doesnt have to, and it could still be somewhat successful) But you are talking about appealing to a specific demographic rather than appealing to all demographics, which is akin to selling popcorn but no drinks.

Do we want viewers to think...

gee wiz, that looks fun, I think I wanna go shoot a few games and get in on some action?

Or,

gee wiz, my son and I are going to start training for the collegiate championship, he could win a scholarship and have opportunities to travel the world and compete. It will teach him about discipline and skill. Some day he might even be able to represent his country in an international event, and we'd be very proud if he did.


But hey, it's a free country and a free enterprise system.
Good luck with your tv show.

 

[one stroke]

Yes, the best way is to always go "with the grain," not against it. Pool has some really special assets that have not been brought into the spotlight except in the movies 'The Hustler' and 'The Color of Money' and they only captured about 50% of the potential.

'The Godfather' is what led to 'The Sopranos' - this should be a "sample example"

I would really like to know what that spike would have been without the fast growing APA in those yrs ,I attribute most of the spike to them , not to movies

1

 

[Celtic]

If a player grew up tough hustling for a living, a good promoter can use that to their advantage. People like to see that kind of stuff if it is done right.

You are completely correct but drastically understated it TBH.

Look at the movies about pool. Look at what they show, look at what they feel the actual entertainment and draw of the sport is, in every single movie about pool or TV show episode that shows pool the common element is gambling and hustling. Every single book about pool or biographies about pool players focuses heavily on gambling and life on the road.

Somehow pool has always tried to make it's mark and gain and audience through tournaments, but that is not where the general publics interest in pool truly lies and it never has been.

If pool wants a resurgence and to gain more interest from the public then nothing could probably do that better then a reality TV show that followed gamblers across the USA. A reality TV show that is basically "Playing off the Rail". Get a couple strong players and road partners to hit the road together. Get them to travel all over the USA to gamble the local talent. Have them enter some of the major events like DCC of course and the US-Open but at the tournaments a great deal of the footage would be of the "green room".

The production of such a show would cost peanuts compared to most shows. You need one or two guys with reasonably decent video cameras to travel with the players, you need to pay for transportation, and you need gambling stakes which are not necessarily costs if the players win sometimes.

You need a player or two with some charisma and who plays fairly fast. Scott Frost would be such a player but his 1-pocket focus would hurt the show, you can show that game once in a while but rotation pool and/or 8-ball would do better for getting people to watch the show. Alex and Corey back in their early days would have been awesome for something like this.

You could also do this on a larger scale and follow a guy like SVB around the world. Film him playing in international events, film him playing his huge challenge matches against people all over the world, film his backers with the wads of hundred dollar bills. This would potentially be huge for everyone involved. The backers, SVB, the camera guys, they could all have a percentage of possible profits if/when the show sells, so even if the excursion ends up with a loss after the editing of the trip and the matches and marketing of the show to a network it could be a profitable venture.

Also for a guy like SVB if he was actually on a weekly reality TV show that got even marginal at best viewership this would be a HUGE boost to his overall fame and increase his sponsorship value many times over. It would benefit the backers and the sport in general because IF something like that hit TV and had reasonable viewership it would have the potential to make this sport explode by adding all those potential viewers and fans and thus adding a lot more money as well as sponsors finally take notice of the increasing popularity of pool.

 

[one stroke]

You are completely correct but drastically understated it TBH.

Look at the movies about pool. Look at what they show, look at what they feel the actual entertainment and draw of the sport is, in every single movie about pool or TV show episode that shows pool the common element is gambling and hustling. Every single book about pool or biographies about pool players focuses heavily on gambling and life on the road.

Somehow pool has always tried to make it's mark and gain and audience through tournaments, but that is not where the general publics interest in pool truly lies and it never has been.

If pool wants a resurgence and to gain more interest from the public then nothing could probably do that better then a reality TV show that followed gamblers across the USA. A reality TV show that is basically "Playing off the Rail". Get a couple strong players and road partners to hit the road together. Get them to travel all over the USA to gamble the local talent. Have them enter some of the major events like DCC of course and the US-Open but at the tournaments a great deal of the footage would be of the "green room".

The production of such a show would cost peanuts compared to most shows. You need one or two guys with reasonably decent video cameras to travel with the players, you need to pay for transportation, and you need gambling stakes which are not necessarily costs if the players win sometimes.

You need a player or two with some charisma and who plays fairly fast. Scott Frost would be such a player but his 1-pocket focus would hurt the show, you can show that game once in a while but rotation pool and/or 8-ball would do better for getting people to watch the show. Alex and Corey back in their early days would have been awesome for something like this.

You could also do this on a larger scale and follow a guy like SVB around the world. Film him playing in international events, film him playing his huge challenge matches against people all over the world, film his backers with the wads of hundred dollar bills. This would potentially be huge for everyone involved. The backers, SVB, the camera guys, they could all have a percentage of possible profits if/when the show sells, so even if the excursion ends up with a loss after the editing of the trip and the matches and marketing of the show to a network it could be a profitable venture.

Also for a guy like SVB if he was actually on a weekly reality TV show that got even marginal at best viewership this would be a HUGE boost to his overall fame and increase his sponsorship value many times over. It would benefit the backers and the sport in general because IF something like that hit TV and had reasonable viewership it would have the potential to make this sport explode by adding all those potential viewers and fans and thus adding a lot more money as well as sponsors finally take notice of the increasing popularity of pool.

Would it get viewers yes who benefits from that other than people directly involved that remains to be seen ,, it's not like they are making millions in the sport and one quick look at the earnings where a NYC trash man makes more than just a small handful players

Anyone could go on you tube and see even getting 100 people to watch a match is a great accomplishment ,, so it really has no star appeal ,, so just where exactly is the appeal ,, ,, there is none ,,

1

 

[Dunnn51]

Great Idea but,...

You are completely correct but drastically understated it TBH.

Look at the movies about pool. Look at what they show, look at what they feel the actual entertainment and draw of the sport is, in every single movie about pool or TV show episode that shows pool the common element is gambling and hustling. Every single book about pool or biographies about pool players focuses heavily on gambling and life on the road.

Somehow pool has always tried to make it's mark and gain and audience through tournaments, but that is not where the general publics interest in pool truly lies and it never has been.

If pool wants a resurgence and to gain more interest from the public then nothing could probably do that better then a reality TV show that followed gamblers across the USA. A reality TV show that is basically "Playing off the Rail". Get a couple strong players and road partners to hit the road together. Get them to travel all over the USA to gamble the local talent. Have them enter some of the major events like DCC of course and the US-Open but at the tournaments a great deal of the footage would be of the >>>> Tournament pit <<<<

The production of such a show would cost peanuts compared to most shows. You need one or two guys with reasonably decent video cameras to travel with the players, you need to pay for transportation, and you need gambling stakes which are not necessarily costs if the players win sometimes.

You need a player or two with some charisma and who plays fairly fast. Scott Frost would be such a player but his 1-pocket focus would hurt the show, you can show that game once in a while but rotation pool and/or 8-ball would do better for getting people to watch the show. Alex and Corey back in their early days would have been awesome for something like this.

You could also do this on a larger scale and follow a guy like SVB around the world. Film him playing in international events, film him playing his huge challenge matches against people all over the world, film his backers with the wads of hundred dollar bills. This would potentially be huge for everyone involved. The backers, SVB, the camera guys, they could all have a percentage of possible profits if/when the show sells, so even if the excursion ends up with a loss after the editing of the trip and the matches and marketing of the show to a network it could be a profitable venture.

Also for a guy like SVB if he was actually on a weekly reality TV show that got even marginal at best viewership this would be a HUGE boost to his overall fame and increase his sponsorship value many times over. It would benefit the backers and the sport in general because IF something like that hit TV and had reasonable viewership it would have the potential to make this sport explode by adding all those potential viewers and fans and thus adding a lot more money as well as sponsors finally take notice of the increasing popularity of pool.

You show them "taking the cheese" all through the reality show all season long. They,(the audience) would know they can win for money, show the audience how they do against the best for glory instead. :smile:

 

[TCo]

You made your bed

It is an emotional connection that would draw viewers. Love or hate. It is NOT the game, it probably has NEVER been the game.

- MN Fats – personality not player. Had viewers
- The Hustler, NOT a movie about pool, it’s movie about an emotionally broken person who has an awakening. Had viewers.
- Color or Money, NOT about pool. Emotional bankruptcy, uses someone to relive his conman youth. Had viewers.

Pool is a backdrop for any of the “pool” movies we know. The sad thing is the con-man piece of “Eddie” in each of these movies is what non-pool-world people view the pool world as being.

To make it worse, think of a newbie post-1986 COM: Drops a little bit on a cue, hits an upscale pool room and comes across someone that misrepresents who they are and their skill to play them – he gets conned out of a couple hundred which, because he works for his money, gives up the game.

Fast forward to the present day “BooHoo” era of pool and that guy has kids that find that cue and he won’t introduce them to the game.

If the BS line fits, wear it, “The Game is the Teacher” nice work, “Game Over”
<insert dying pacman sound here>

 

[one stroke]

What's really funny is if pool ever gets big on TV here and it spills into big money Tourneys ,, say goodbye to the American pool player ,,


1

 

[CJ Wiley]

the "will" in this day in age comes with a price, the price of individual perception

What many people miss when I refer to the "Match, Pace and Lead" scenario {in marketing} is you can lead the general public into the "image" you want {them to process}...instead of the "image" they choose {to have}.

This {process} has been done in football, baseball, hockey, golf, and especially NASCAR. People watch NASCAR so they can root FOR and AGAINST drivers....even to the point of wanting to see them crash. It's not about cars driving around in circles, it's about "good and bad," "life and death," and "my guy/your guy".....some people even root for the "BUD CAR" because they drink Budweiser....what a coincidence.

This didn't happen in all sports by accident, it was designed and very few "real eyes" they've been programmed as part of the matrix......and they "think" they have free will. LoL - the "will" {in this day and age} comes with a price, the price of individual perception.....the "masses" perceive what they're supposed to, not what they want to.

'The Game is the Teacher'

You show them "taking the cheese" all through the reality show all season long. They,(the audience) would know they can win for money, show the audience how they do against the best for glory instead. :smile:

 

[one stroke]

What many people miss when I refer to the "Match, Pace and Lead" scenario {in marketing} is you can lead the general public into the "image" you want {them to process}...instead of the "image" they choose {to have}.

This {process} has been done in football, baseball, hockey, golf, and especially NASCAR. People watch NASCAR so they can root FOR and AGAINST drivers....even to the point of wanting to see them crash. It's not about cars driving around in circles, it's about "good and bad," "life and death," and "my guy/your guy".....some people even root for the "BUD CAR" because they drink Budweiser....what a coincidence.

This didn't happen in all sports by accident, it was designed and very few "real eyes" they've been programmed as part of the matrix......and they "think" they have free will. LoL - the "will" {in this day and age} comes with a price, the price of individual perception.....the "masses" perceive what they're supposed to, not what they want to.

'The Game is the Teacher'

These are all past time sports all of them were big even before TV ,, NASCAR became popular because of its home roots and product affiliation ,, that's how they edged out Indy and cart racing,, people watch the sport first and in time pic there drivers not the other way around
Same in every other sport ,,
I type this as I'm watching World Cup and like millions of others I can't name 2 players
The Sport is the teacher
1

 

[PINKLADY]

It is an emotional connection that would draw viewers. Love or hate. It is NOT the game, it probably has NEVER been the game....

this is what i was trying to say earlier. and have said in the past, when i've taken polls at various halls - "name me 5 pros".

for approx 30yrs of playing, not once, in 15 states, have i ever been informed about the Pros. till KK9. it was his "scoop" on each player's history, that got me involved. and it started with Jay's book, and The Million Dollar Match....

Mosconi is like rugby. and NASCAR. and football. pitting US against THEM. and we watch for the trainwreck. cause we're invested in the players' lives.

otherwise, pool is boring - i'd rather be shooting.

 

[one stroke]

this is what i was trying to say earlier. and have said in the past, when i've taken polls at various halls - "name me 5 pros".

for approx 30yrs of playing, not once, in 15 states, have i ever been informed about the Pros. till KK9. it was his "scoop" on each player's history, that got me involved. and it started with Jay's book, and The Million Dollar Match....

Mosconi is like rugby. and NASCAR. and football. pitting US against THEM. and we watch for the trainwreck. cause we're invested in the players' lives.

otherwise, pool is boring - i'd rather be shooting.

Us against them is the country affiliation ,not player affiliation ,, same as sport city affiliation ,, the names change but the game remains ,, go into any bar right now that's watching World Cup and there's plenty of people watching that don't have a clue what players are playing ..I have watched thousands of pool matches and never knew who was playing ,,

1

 

[CJ Wiley]

Baseball is much more boring than pool and it's the "national pastime"

Poker is much more boring than pool.... they discovered "the magic Hole Card bullet"

Baseball is much more boring than pool....they discovered "the magic Marketing bullet"

NASCAR is much more boring than pool..... they discovered "the magic Crash bullet"

Golf is much more boring than pool..... they discovered "the magic Tiger bullet"

Foot ball is much more boring than pool..... they discovered "the magic TV bullet"

If anything pool is MORE BORING now than back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.....is ther a reason? Of course, they refuse to acknowledge pool's "magic bullet".....the reasons are always simple when we have "real eyes" to "realize" the "real lies"......'The Game is the Teacher'

this is what i was trying to say earlier. and have said in the past, when i've taken polls at various halls - "name me 5 pros".

for approx 30yrs of playing, not once, in 15 states, have i ever been informed about the Pros. till KK9. it was his "scoop" on each player's history, that got me involved. and it started with Jay's book, and The Million Dollar Match....

Mosconi is like rugby. and NASCAR. and football. pitting US against THEM. and we watch for the trainwreck. cause we're invested in the players' lives.

otherwise, pool is boring - i'd rather be shooting.