Pro level players entered in Bca open events

Kid Dynomite said:
Mr. Stock,

It seems a shame that these players get so good that the BCA has no choice but to abandon them. Why not a Semi-Pro division or some other event that would allow these "Regional Monster" to perticipate in the BCA. What is there for Jeff Beckly, Shawn Wilkie, Brian Deska, & etc.

This issue of players improving in the system to the point where the current system and organization have NOTHING for them exists and is real. These players used to be able to enter the pro event previously and with the move to invitational, there is no where for them to "GO" but back home!

Nice to know that if you get "TOO GOOD" you can forget about playing league!!!

I agree with the decision, just think you should be able to create a substitute division or tournament for this group of people that fall "IN-BETWEEN" pro and amateur.

Regional leagues could be PARTNERS with you and send 4 players each from GSBT, APT, MEZZ, ABCA=Joe Tucker league & etc. They pay airfare and hotel for 4 players and put some of the prize money into a prize fund. You collect a slight administrative fee and these players get to participate. The Regional owners are just like your league operators. Nothing preventing the league operators to EXPAND into the regional leagues??? Or the regional owners partnering to have a MEGA tournament once a year. Especially, since piggy backing events keeps cost down.

Just some food for thought!!!

Sincerely,
KD
Mike Wilson
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They can all play in the BCAPL I believe. It's just they can't sneak into the OPEN division. Only those that fly under the radar can do that. :thumbup: or is it :mad:

There are several other divisions. The problem is that most pool players are looking to make a score and once they have to play in the Masters Division (or higher) they are no longer stealing playing on a bar table.

Not too many people play just for the title. In a sense, I think this is where the APA gets it right with the U.S. Amateur Championship. You don't really play for anything but they seem to fill up the tournament each year.

Maybe C.S.I. should think about trying to get the winners of those upper divisions some face time. Give them a big trophy and plaster their faces all over the internet. Appeal to their vanity a bit more. I don't know -- do something different. You can increase the prize fund but if a pool player isn't stealing they aren't going to play. But hey - if you give them a fancy trophy and some recognition maybe they will.

I could be wrong.
 
Kid Dynomite said:
Mr. Stock,

It seems a shame that these players get so good that the BCA has no choice but to abandon them. Why not a Semi-Pro division or some other event that would allow these "Regional Monster" to perticipate in the BCA. What is there for Jeff Beckly, Shawn Wilkie, Brian Deska, & etc.

This issue of players improving in the system to the point where the current system and organization have NOTHING for them exists and is real. These players used to be able to enter the pro event previously and with the move to invitational, there is no where for them to "GO" but back home!

Nice to know that if you get "TOO GOOD" you can forget about playing league!!!

I agree with the decision, just think you should be able to create a substitute division or tournament for this group of people that fall "IN-BETWEEN" pro and amateur.

Regional leagues could be PARTNERS with you and send 4 players each from GSBT, APT, MEZZ, ABCA=Joe Tucker league & etc. They pay airfare and hotel for 4 players and put some of the prize money into a prize fund. You collect a slight administrative fee and these players get to participate. The Regional owners are just like your league operators. Nothing preventing the league operators to EXPAND into the regional leagues??? Or the regional owners partnering to have a MEGA tournament once a year. Especially, since piggy backing events keeps cost down.

Just some food for thought!!!

Sincerely,
KD
Mike Wilson
Click to expand...


There are several divisions. Leisure, Open, advanced, master, and grand master.
 
Be careful, I got red rep for implying the same thing.

Who cares who plays in it, get up and play. I'm waiting for the follow up post of "I played and drew Danny M. and beat him, man I played really well"

De$action said:
Time to put your big boy pants on and just play and give your self a chance to beat a good player!!!! Your writing yourself off from the beginning. Everyone has to pay their dues. I'm no open player but I can play a little bit, the long reason for that is because I payed my dues and played killers everyday!!! SORRY JUST HAD TO VENT. There has been a lot of talk about this kind of stuff lately
Click to expand...
 
u12armresl said:
Be careful, I got red rep for implying the same thing.

Who cares who plays in it, get up and play. I'm waiting for the follow up post of "I played and drew Danny M. and beat him, man I played really well"
Click to expand...

No, you got a red rep for not reading what was posted before your reply and making a snide APA comment.

I kind of agree.. I mean, why even have a AAA league for baseball? They should just play in the pros or don't play at all - same goes for college "athletes". Even hobbyists should either compete nationally/globally on even footing or they should just stay home and watch TV. Same with cue makers, either put out a $5000 cue or get a job. Don't even get me started on cooking. That's what you're saying, right?

I'll try just about anybody, but I'm not spending a week's vacation and a chunk of cash just to do my best imitation of a mopped floor.

Confusion is starting to set in now.. you're complaining about Mastermaker or others not being allowed in the bottom division, but then you follow it up by saying people should go for the gold? Feel free to say how he should've just signed up for the GM division to begin with.
 
u12armresl said:
Be careful, I got red rep for implying the same thing.

Who cares who plays in it, get up and play. I'm waiting for the follow up post of "I played and drew Danny M. and beat him, man I played really well"
Click to expand...

While I agree with the concept of taking your licks and stepping up and playing with the big boys. This isn't exactly what we are talking about. For many, going to this tournament is a once in a lifetime deal. And if you are playing in the OPEN division with the understanding that you should be able to at least compete in that division -- then it shouldn't be littered with Master players.

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to get all ready to play your first match and you discover you are playing against guys that you have zero chance of even being competitive with.

The time to step up and play is when you are standing in front of the brackets and you see a name that you really wished wasn't there. This is a little different.
 
I was to play in the Men's Division but then got a note from CSI saying I had been moved to the Women's Division. So I called Mark and asked him why and he said: "Cause you're a pussy."

Does anyone have a couple of size 28 dresses I can borrow for a week?
 
Want to get the Open players that qualify for the Advanced (or higher) to come back the following year? If you cash out $1000 or more, they should withhold your entry fee for the following year.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
I was to play in the Men's Division but then got a note from CSI saying I had been moved to the Women's Division. So I called Mark and asked him why and he said: "Cause you're a pussy."

Does anyone have a couple of size 28 dresses I can borrow for a week?
Click to expand...

I'd think it would be easier if you just ordered 1 size 56 dress. :duck:

watchez said:
Want to get the Open players that qualify for the Advanced (or higher) to come back the following year? If you cash out $1000 or more, they should withhold your entry fee for the following year.
Click to expand...

Not quite sure what the ratio is, but our regional adds heavily to the upper divisions. The entries are a bit more, but the payouts increase through the divisions even though the participation is lower. The temptation is very high to sneak into a lower division when the payout for the Open is around $10k, A's is about $4k, Masters $2.3k and GM is $1700.
 
Banks said:
No, you got a red rep for not reading what was posted before your reply and making a snide APA comment.

I kind of agree.. I mean, why even have a AAA league for baseball? They should just play in the pros or don't play at all - same goes for college "athletes". Even hobbyists should either compete nationally/globally on even footing or they should just stay home and watch TV. Same with cue makers, either put out a $5000 cue or get a job. Don't even get me started on cooking. That's what you're saying, right?

I'll try just about anybody, but I'm not spending a week's vacation and a chunk of cash just to do my best imitation of a mopped floor.

Confusion is starting to set in now.. you're complaining about Mastermaker or others not being allowed in the bottom division, but then you follow it up by saying people should go for the gold? Feel free to say how he should've just signed up for the GM division to begin with.
Click to expand...

Damn it John, you're getting too good at this satire thing. I'm taking the easy way out this year. Playing the Super Seniors (:eek:) again. Bill S says it should be a walk in the park! Didn't realize he meant Jurassic Park!!!!

Lyn
 
Banks said:
Not quite sure what the ratio is, but our regional adds heavily to the upper divisions. The entries are a bit more, but the payouts increase through the divisions even though the participation is lower. The temptation is very high to sneak into a lower division when the payout for the Open is around $10k, A's is about $4k, Masters $2.3k and GM is $1700.
Click to expand...

I'd be willing to bet that if you made the payouts equal (and why should they be if the amount of entries aren't equal?) that a lot of players woud still try to sneak into the Open simply because the competition is easier.

It is hilarious - all these peope coming on here saying that no one should ***** and everyone should play even. Well, it appears that the higher skillled players don't want to play even either. That is the problem.

People that have posted in this thread, who have WON divisions, and now they post they won't be playing cause they can't compete?? So their definition of competing is being a favorite to win.
 
You better reread things and tell me where I complained about Danny or anyone playing.



Banks said:
No, you got a red rep for not reading what was posted before your reply and making a snide APA comment.

I kind of agree.. I mean, why even have a AAA league for baseball? They should just play in the pros or don't play at all - same goes for college "athletes". Even hobbyists should either compete nationally/globally on even footing or they should just stay home and watch TV. Same with cue makers, either put out a $5000 cue or get a job. Don't even get me started on cooking. That's what you're saying, right?

I'll try just about anybody, but I'm not spending a week's vacation and a chunk of cash just to do my best imitation of a mopped floor.

Confusion is starting to set in now.. you're complaining about Mastermaker or others not being allowed in the bottom division, but then you follow it up by saying people should go for the gold? Feel free to say how he should've just signed up for the GM division to begin with.
Click to expand...
 
watchez said:
I'd be willing to bet that if you made the payouts equal (and why should they be if the amount of entries aren't equal?) that a lot of players woud still try to sneak into the Open simply because the competition is easier.

It is hilarious - all these peope coming on here saying that no one should ***** and everyone should play even. Well, it appears that the higher skillled players don't want to play even either. That is the problem.

People that have posted in this thread, who have WON divisions, and now they post they won't be playing cause they can't compete?? So their definition of competing is being a favorite to win.
Click to expand...

I think one of the big things here is that this is a league tournament. A lot of people are doing this recreationally, so they're encouraged to participate through handicapping that gives them hope that they can cash. These are people that already spend time playing league and probably don't want to waste money, more time and a good part of their vacation time to get beat down. The division participation is probably a pretty good representation of the balance of players in the BCA(80% low, 15% A, 4% M and 1% GM, if that.)

The DCC is a great example of a tournament that's run on even footing. The atmosphere is built for old-school gambling and pool star-gazing. They each are catering to the crowd that they are followed by.

If you take a look at the divisions, you can also see names such as Chip Compton competing in the Masters division, not the GM. Pool is a funny thing. Oregon did pretty well last year, too, but you certainly wouldn't consider this a place to earn your stripes and pay your dues playing monsters.
 
watchez said:
Want to get the Open players that qualify for the Advanced (or higher) to come back the following year? If you cash out $1000 or more, they should withhold your entry fee for the following year.
Click to expand...

Steve,

Played in the CCS Nationals in Mississauga, Ontario this past April. They did exactly that in the Advanced 8 Ball (Masters) with the players finishing 7/8 getting next years entry paid but no cash payout. Finishing 5/6 got me the exact same payout only they gave me the cash! Not sure which is more incentive to return next year. Think there were 31 entries at $175.

Have no problem with your suggestion of withholding entry fees. Really isn't going to change the attendance. Round trip flights from Rochester (or Buffalo) to Vegas run about $550. Playing in the Advance or Masters is roughly $175 entry fee. Must arrive Friday before play begins and stay till at least Wednesday after play ends. At the Rio, it means another $400 to $500. To break even, a player would have to finish at least SECOND in the Masters or 5/6 in the Advanced just to break even. Most guys have proven they would just eat the entry fee rather that go out to lose money. Time has shown becoming a BCAPL Master or being thought to be that caliber is a dead end for a league player.

Last time I played Masters, there were well over two hundred entries. Last year there were about 36. Even if you add in the recently created Advanced Division with its 130 plus players, attendance is still way down. Withholding an entry fee will not change this. JMHO.

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
Steve,

Played in the CCS Nationals in Mississauga, Ontario this past April. They did exactly that in the Advanced 8 Ball (Masters) with the players finishing 7/8 getting next years entry paid but no cash payout. Finishing 5/6 got me the exact same payout only they gave me the cash! Not sure which is more incentive to return next year. Think there were 31 entries at $175.

Have no problem with your suggestion of withholding entry fees. Really isn't going to change the attendance. Round trip flights from Rochester (or Buffalo) to Vegas run about $550. Playing in the Advance or Masters is roughly $175 entry fee. Must arrive Friday before play begins and stay till at least Wednesday after play ends. At the Rio, it means another $400 to $500. To break even, a player would have to finish at least SECOND in the Masters or 5/6 in the Advanced just to break even. Most guys have proven they would just eat the entry fee rather that go out to lose money. Time has shown becoming a BCAPL Master or being thought to be that caliber is a dead end for a league player.

Last time I played Masters, there were well over two hundred entries. Last year there were about 36. Even if you add in the recently created Advanced Division with its 130 plus players, attendance is still way down. Withholding an entry fee will not change this. JMHO.

Lyn
Click to expand...

Lyn -

If you or anyone else is playing in the BCAPL with the intention of going to Vega$ to come out ahead on your expenses, you need to do some serious re-evaluating. Just like any pool tournament, two or three people (or teams) make money. Everyone else goes home even at best or loser.

But if you want an excuse to go to Vega$, have something to do while there besdes trying to hit the jackpot slot machine, see some old friends, make some new friends, get some competition all in an atmosphere that is professionally run and organized, then you should jump at the chance to play in the BCAPL. I've been going every year since 1998 and look forward to it every year.

And I wouldn't advertise it as withholding the entry fee --- I would let people know they 'won' a free entry fee to next year. Attendance would go up. And if they don't show up, still obviously put the entry fee $$$ in the prize pool to benefit those that do attend.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
I was to play in the Men's Division but then got a note from CSI saying I had been moved to the Women's Division. So I called Mark and asked him why and he said: "Cause you're a pussy."

Does anyone have a couple of size 28 dresses I can borrow for a week?
Click to expand...

Haha...I got em once (but I am a size 6):D
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Last year in the men's 8 ball open BCA, I matched up with a George Mastermaker. Hmm...that name sounded familiar...who am I thinking of...

Anyway I asked him and sure enough it was Danny...I guess that is his middle name or something. I played pretty well and ended up winning the match and knocking him out of the tourney. I won 1 or 2 more and then lost. Do I belong in the Open division? Probably. I got 65th. I'd say Danny or a player like him should have their shot at the tourney. I think if you get like top 8 or something you are bumped up to the advanced division. I see no problem with this. Danny is a very nice guy and was glad to meet him. I played a great match and had something to feel good about. Win-win to me. If he had beat me, well then I had the chance to play a great player.

KMRUNOUT
 
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