The era of the "poke-stroke"

JAM said:
Grady Mathews had a stroke like that to. It always amazed me to see him stroke it one time and then shoot. :grin-square:

I guess, as the saying goes, different strokes for different folks! :p
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I've always attributed my short stroke to being born with short arms. I've had a hell of a time finding long sleeved shirts that fit my whole life.
A short bridge/stoke is just what seemed natural to me. On my rotation game break, I've always tried to follow though more than usual, however.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Ok, an attempted definition of a poke stroke:

A stroke which has a fairly- to very short backswing and a non-existent- to short follow through (some are longer). The motion of the stoke is fairly "jab" like. The acceleration of the stoke is such that the cueball has the appearance of being "punched" rather than pushed. Frequently the backswing has a similar speed to the forward swing. There is a rather large difference in appearance between power shot and soft shots, usually (but not always). Perfect example: Chao.

Definition of a full stroke:

A stroke which has a medium to full length backswing, which usually is a lot slower than the forward swing, with a smooth acceleration at the forward swing which peaks at the cueball, giving the appearance that it is being pushed rather than punched. The stroke has a full length follow through. The transition between soft shots and hard shots is fluid, often making it hard to tell wether a shot will be hit hard or softly. Perfect example: Hall. Immonen is a "hybrid" between the full stroke and the Phillipino school stroke.

Definition of Phillipino school loop stroke:
A stroke which has a fluid motion in the elbow and shoulder area, which gives the cue a wavy up-and-down motion. Long backswing.The practice strokes are usually fairly fast. The stroke gives the appearance that the cue is "thrown" into the ball, with no exaggerated follow-through. Some softer shots have decelleration. Perfect example: Efren
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Just a weird observation about this thread:

* The OP's screenname (Straightpool_99) lends itself to an advocacy of straight pool (14.1) -- which is fine. (Hey, I'm a "bird of a feather" in that department!) But then he laments what he terms as "the loss of the full stroke."

That's paradoxical, when you consider that through history, most straight poolers had what he terms is a jab or poke stroke. Take a look at any "old school" straight pooler and you'll notice what they had was a jab or poke stroke. Even the slip-strokers like Mosconi, Cicero Murphy, and "Cowboy" Jimmy Moore. Although some of the slip-strokers may've had a long backstroke, the grip hand still slid back on the [linen] grip; i.e. the grip hand moved backwards, not the cue! So what you ended up with was a poke stroke, because the actual cue tip didn't come as far back from the cue ball as it would have if the grip hand maintained its grip without slipping backwards.

All good pros adapt to the equipment, irrespective of their stroke style. And that is what it is, btw -- a style. There may be a science behind it, but perhaps the reason why some folks have a "full stroke" while others have a "punch" or "jab" or "poke" stroke may be due to muscle makeup -- i.e. ratio of fast-twitch to slow-twitch muscle fibers. And body styles to match -- i.e. ectomorph, mesomorph, or endomorph. Those with a higher concentration of fast-twitch muscle fibers (i.e. ectomorph or mesomorph) may opt for a short/jab/poke/punch stroke (whatever you want to call it). Similarly, those with a higher concentration of slow-twitch muscle fibers (endomorph) may opt for a "full" stroke.

The same range of strokes can be found in snooker, by the way.

There's no good or bad here. The key is, do you deliver the cue through the cue ball correctly? That's what separates a good stroke from a bad stroke. Pool is not a "stylistic" sport -- i.e. you don't get points for having a "prettier" stroke. Pool is an execution sport -- i.e. "did the object ball go in the hole?" Although, those with proper fundamentals *do* look better than those with wonky fundamentals. Something about that cue looking like a laser, and the sound of a properly-cued hit.

-Sean
 
I have always had the poke stroke, lately I have added , and hope to it, so it is now known as the poke and hope stroke.
 
Kim Bye said:
I would like to see some examples of this "poking" you are talking about...
Have you seen Niels, Mika or Thorsten play?
I don't see any of them using a poke stroke.
Look at the previous generation of players. They truly used a poke stroke. Mosconi, Fatts etc are as far from what constitutes a perfect stroke as you can be.
I have to agree about Earls stroke, it's a thing of beauty!
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Really?? Mosconi 'poked' the ball. You are clearly delusional.

Dale(tagging Lou as he steps out of the ring)
 
pdcue said:
Really?? Mosconi 'poked' the ball. You are clearly delusional.

Dale(tagging Lou as he steps out of the ring)
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Dale:

I agree; I don't like the term "poke" applied to a short, compact, efficient stroke either.

The OP of this thread seems to subscribe to an "all or nothing" notion when it comes to the stroke. I.e.: "unless you do a full pull-back a la Buddy Hall, you've a 'poke stroke', no argument." Which I don't agree with.

-Sean
 
FranCrimi said:
A poke stroke is a poorly timed stroke. Many pro players with short strokes had good timing.
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I agree, Fran. I don't like the term "poke" applied to a short, compact stroke.

Methinks the OP is hung up on the length of the backstroke, and a pause back there, or something along those lines.

Good players hone their timing on the back stroke related to the forward stroke, and the back stroke does not necessarily have to be slow and deliberate. Nor does it have a long pause back there, before beginning the transition to forward movement. It's all in the timing. And that may be a very personal thing.

Of course, "personal" assumes that the person has worked on good timing aspects as part of the stroke-building foundation -- i.e. the stroke is not rushed, has no wobble or yaw, and goes through the cue ball correctly.

-Sean
 
Does anyone give any weight to the rise of the 7ft table over the last 20-30 years, as a contributing factor to the decline of the modern stroke? Back in the day, everything was played on big tables, people learned to develop a stroke out of necessity... Now, the vast majority of tables being played on are 7 footers. You almost HAVE to learn a poke stroke on a 7 footer..

Just a thought...
 
sfleinen said:
There may be a science behind it, but perhaps the reason why some folks have a "full stroke" while others have a "punch" or "jab" or "poke" stroke may be due to muscle makeup -- i.e. ratio of fast-twitch to slow-twitch muscle fibers. And body styles to match -- i.e. ectomorph, mesomorph, or endomorph. Those with a higher concentration of fast-twitch muscle fibers (i.e. ectomorph or mesomorph) may opt for a short/jab/poke/punch stroke (whatever you want to call it). Similarly, those with a higher concentration of slow-twitch muscle fibers (endomorph) may opt for a "full" stroke.
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I don't know that this is correct. Most extreme power athletes (i.e. weight lifters, shot putters, etc) that rely on explosive fast-twitch musculature are endomorphs, while the long endurance athletes who need a preponderance of slow-twitch musculature are all ectomorphs.

We've met and you probably remember that I'm an endomorph, but I can warp shots in at light speed with an extremely compact stroke, with the tip a mere inch or two away from the ball and almost no backswing. I don't ordinarily shoot that way and prefer a longer, more fluid and relaxed stroke, but athletically this endo is blessed with a lot of fast-twitch muscle for activities that benefit from it.
 
Rain-Man said:
Does anyone give any weight to the rise of the 7ft table over the last 20-30 years, as a contributing factor to the decline of the modern stroke? Back in the day, everything was played on big tables, people learned to develop a stroke out of necessity... Now, the vast majority of tables being played on are 7 footers. You almost HAVE to learn a poke stroke on a 7 footer..

Just a thought...
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Absolutely agree. I cant stand watching pool on seven footers let alone playing on them. The beauty of the sport is sucked out. And you are right, no need for a long fluid stroke when your bridge length would be a third of the rail. So no incentive to learn.

Why isnt nba played on half courts, becauss the beauty is in the full court and the best play that game. The same goes for pool, the beauty is in the full table, nine foot and above.
 
Rain-Man said:
Does anyone give any weight to the rise of the 7ft table over the last 20-30 years, as a contributing factor to the decline of the modern stroke? Back in the day, everything was played on big tables, people learned to develop a stroke out of necessity... Now, the vast majority of tables being played on are 7 footers. You almost HAVE to learn a poke stroke on a 7 footer..

Just a thought...
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In Europe you have to try hard to find a bar box, the 9 foot tables are the mainstream.
 
Not really sure what this thread is "technically" about,,,, but keep this in mind, and this only my opinion! At the end of the day, whatever you do for your pre shot routine, is all fine and dandy, but what really matters is the actual contact the tip makes with cue ball! As long as that is "right" everything before and after is meaningless! Also, to this that don't really know, the contact time between tip and ball is so short that if you see it in slow motion, you would "realeyes" it all doesn't matter:)

With that said, don't get me wrong, you need proper fundamentals to get the cue ball to spin around consistently, but still, it's all in that contact time;)
 
gotta ask . . .

pdcue said:
Sooooooo, Mosconi not only poked the ball - he used a slip stroke.

GO GET THERAPY RIGHT NOW.

Dale(who wishes Lou would quit beating up on john and come help)
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I gotta ask . . .
Did he use the poke-slip or the slip poke?

I find the slip poke with a wrist flick to be most effective. That is known as the Slip Poke Flick Stroke or SPooF Stroke for short.

Hu
 
Straightpool_99 said:
What the hell?! I never said ANY of those things! You do realize that the part in blue was my response and the red and black parts were Sean, right?! I don't mean this to as patronizing as it sounds, but are you color-blind, by chance? I'd better use multi-quote from now on, I guess. There was a debate recently on wether Mosconi used a slip stroke or not. I'm not really sure, the video doesn't seem to indicate that, but the stroke Mosconi had allegedly changed his stroke mechanics, so who knows what his stroke used to look like before this, when he was in his prime. We have only second hand reports on this, no video. By his own words his stroke was a lot smoother before his illness, and I see no reason to doubt that. BTW I've never said that he poked the ball eiter FYI. What are you going to read into THIS post I wonder? Perhaps therapy is a good idea, I sure need some after this. Nobody likes it when people deliberately or for other reasons misinterpret every word you say. There is really no way to win in situations like that. Either you let the misinterpretation stand (which will then become the "truth"), or you explain every word you say so carefully that people think you are patronizing them. The more I think about it, the more I think you are trolling me, so this post is in fact a faux pas in itself, sigh...
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The comment was meant in general. Sean knows what he is talking about, tho he
and I have a bit of an issue on what does and does not rise to the level of slippage in a
stroke. Lou has first hand observation of Mosconi shooting many a 14.1 break shot.
They know of what they speak....

You, however are quite simply a clueless troll.

Dale
 
The Renfro said:
Here ya go... Neither of them got paid but Alex got within about 4-5 inches


View attachment 357102
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I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here, but is this an extremely hard shot? I watched SVB hit this shot at snookers a couple yrs back and I started practicing it for fun, I got the shot down within a few minutes! Mind you, it was on a freshly clothed gc4! I can get the cue ball just past the center of the table in my basement now, and the cloth is 3 yrs old and so much humidity the table is playing pretty slow!

Again, not trying to be an A$$! I know the shot is hard, but it's not that hard, unless I'm lucky enough to hit it well, I don't consider it to be a very difficult shot!

Sorry for my ignorance in advance!
 
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