Richie Richeson vs. Scott Frost

[spanky79]

I'm not so sure Scott plays better than Cliff in his prime. At one time, Cliff was considered the premier One Pocket player in the United States without much question. Shannon Daulton may have been the only player who could play Cliff even, and still be a slight underdog.

I don't think Scott has ever been unquestionably the best One Pocket player. Jeremy Jones, Gabe Owen and Corey Deuel might have something to say about that. And Shannon!

Currently I like this kid Josh Roberts. He's got game!

Its not even close. Cliff in his prime played Efren getting 9-7 i believe in a race to 14 and got BIG. I dont see Efren spotting Scott. Scott has beat him both times they have gambled. But I still like Efren.

Jay I respect your opinion but you say Ronnie Allen was better then Efren. If you really believe that one I cant take this evaluation seriously.

 

[jay helfert]

Its not even close. Cliff in his prime played Efren getting 9-7 i believe in a race to 14 and got BIG. I dont see Efren spotting Scott. Scott has beat him both times they have gambled. But I still like Efren.

Jay I respect your opinion but you say Ronnie Allen was better then Efren. If you really believe that one I cant take this evaluation seriously.

How do you think Scott would have played Efren in his prime? He may not have taken 9-7 then!

As for Ronnie, did you ever see him play in his prime? I did and he remains a unique One Pocket player, with skills I've never seen matched by anyone, not even Efren. Efren has a much different game than Ronnie and it would have been a great match-up for that reason. But of course we will never know.

For you to tell me about my evaluation of Ronnie Allen's One Pocket game without ever seeing him play is very interesting. You truly have no idea of how good he was. In an era of many great One Pocket players, Ronnie stood above all the rest. Plus he could gamble and bet high, and could rattle you with his conversation. I really think he would have gotten into Efren's head at some point. Ronnie wouldn't quit either. He just got tougher and tougher as the game went on. He played his best when his back was against the wall, making one amazing shot after another. Efren will look for the exit if the going gets too tough. Ronnie was the best clutch shooter I ever saw. Give him one tough shot for all the money and I would bet on Ronnie to make it every time!

 

[spanky79]

How do you think Scott would have played Efren in his prime? He may not have taken 9-7 then!

As for Ronnie, did you ever see him play in his prime? I did and he remains a unique One Pocket player, with skills I've never seen matched by anyone, not even Efren. Efren has a much different game than Ronnie and it would have been a great match-up for that reason. But off course we will never know.

For you to tell me about my evaluation of Ronnie Allen's One Pocket game without ever seeing him play is very interesting. You truly have no idea of how good he was. In an era of many great One Pocket players, Ronnie stood above all the rest. Plus he could gamble and bet high, and could rattle you with his conversation. I really think he would have gotten into Efren's head at some point. Ronnie wouldn't quit either. He just got tougher and tougher as the game went on. Efren will look for the exit if the going gets tough. Ronnie was the best clutch shooter I ever saw. Give him one tough shot for all the money and I would bet on Ronnie to make it every time!

This is a match we all would of loved to see. of course that cant happen. All I know is it is hard to think anyone ever played the game better then Efren. I am looking forward to this one pocket event. I hope the old guy Efren snaps off the youngsters.

 

[SakuJack]

Corey Deuel

Was/is Corey considered that good of a one-pocket player? Genuine question.

 

[Nostroke]

Its not even close. Cliff in his prime played Efren getting 9-7 i believe in a race to 14 and got BIG. I dont see Efren spotting Scott. Scott has beat him both times they have gambled. But I still like Efren.

Jay I respect your opinion but you say Ronnie Allen was better then Efren. If you really believe that one I cant take this evaluation seriously.

Where was that 9-7 game ?

 

[jay helfert]

Was/is Corey considered that good of a one-pocket player? Genuine question.

Let me just say this, I can't think of anyone who would give him weight. Besides Efren of course.

 

[DAVE_M]

Let me just say this, I can't think of anyone who would give him weight. Besides Efren of course.

Has Shane ever given him weight in 1P? I know he's given him huge weight in 9ball & 10ball.

 

[jay helfert]

Has Shane ever given him weight in 1P? I know he's given him huge weight in 9ball & 10ball.

Present time, Shane would have to give Corey some weight, maybe something like 8-7 and 9-8. Five years ago I doubt Shane would even play Corey One Hole. :smile:

 

[Old Nine Baller]

How do you think Scott would have played Efren in his prime? He may not have taken 9-7 then!

As for Ronnie, did you ever see him play in his prime? I did and he remains a unique One Pocket player, with skills I've never seen matched by anyone, not even Efren. Efren has a much different game than Ronnie and it would have been a great match-up for that reason. But of course we will never know.

For you to tell me about my evaluation of Ronnie Allen's One Pocket game without ever seeing him play is very interesting. You truly have no idea of how good he was. In an era of many great One Pocket players, Ronnie stood above all the rest. Plus he could gamble and bet high, and could rattle you with his conversation. I really think he would have gotten into Efren's head at some point. Ronnie wouldn't quit either. He just got tougher and tougher as the game went on. He played his best when his back was against the wall, making one amazing shot after another. Efren will look for the exit if the going gets too tough. Ronnie was the best clutch shooter I ever saw. Give him one tough shot for all the money and I would bet on Ronnie to make it every time!

This is one rarely mentioned fact about Efren. How many times has he quit after winning the 1st game and losing the 2nd? Efren always has one foot out the door. Ronnie would give up the nuts and sometimes lose, who ever heard of Efren losing any amount worth mentioning?

ONB

 

[jay helfert]

This is one rarely mentioned fact about Efren. How many times has he quit after winning the 1st game and losing the 2nd? Efren always has one foot out the door. Ronnie would give up the nuts and sometimes lose, who ever heard of Efren losing any amount worth mentioning?

ONB

Ronnie would give up the nuts and oftentimes win as well!

 

[phil dade]

For my 2 cents, I think Effren is the greatest ever. Player, shot maker everything all around. However, listen to Jay. Ronnie Allen, cash, one pocket, mouth going, balls moving to his pocket like and avalanche.....it would be quite a match.

I have said this over several posts. for those who have not seen Jay's World One pocket Challenge match for 1989, Ronnie Allen vs. Danny Diliberto, it is a must see. For all the DD critics and Ronnie doubters, by 89 they were both post peak, but wow, what a match and what shots. Danny closes out game one with a 4 railer and that is only the beginning.

I think anyone who sees this match, will enjoy it and have great respect to two great players. They rail Ronnie back to his prime and you may have second thoughts.

 

[Chops02]

I'm not so sure Scott plays better than Cliff in his prime. At one time, Cliff was considered the premier One Pocket player in the United States without much question. Shannon Daulton may have been the only player who could play Cliff even, and still be a slight underdog.

I don't think Scott has ever been unquestionably the best One Pocket player. Jeremy Jones, Gabe Owen and Corey Deuel might have something to say about that. And Shannon!

Currently I like this kid Josh Roberts. He's got game!

the last part there...about josh...so true. people better not sleep on him at smokin aces. i mean...has he lost a 1p tournament he's entered this year? i know he took the last one up there at smokin aces yet all anyone is talking about is scott. scott is a monster, but i do believe josh beat him in that tourney.

as for the match with richie...i gotta think scott's gonna be out to make a statement about being "back" after this little wrist setback. richie is an awesome stick, but i see scott winning this one without too much trouble.

 

[JAM]

"When Fast Eddie Ronnie Allen steps into the red-carpeted pit for a game of 9-ball, the Texas carnival owner will give you a $200 bet faster than Fast Eddie can chalk his cue, and the hustler will shoot as long as the aciton lasts. More money changes hands in the stands in one hour than a cashier at the bank in Johnston City sees in a week." ----> HERE

Ronnie Allen's best game was one-pocket, and there was nobody who could beat him in his prime. In fact, he played all games well, because during Ronnie's era, you had to play all games when you were on the road, hoping to make a score. You couldn't just be a one-trick pony back then, but one-pocket was his best. He was a legend when I was growing up.

Here's some vintage pool with Ronnie and his peers playing some straight pool. --> HERE

Poor Cliff Joyner's reputation got so well known as being a proficient one-pocket players that he had to give up mega weight just to get played. He definitely is a one-pocket phenom.

Scott Frost is too. Nobody has to like it playing one-pocket with Scott, even today.

But all these guys' primes, when they were hitting 'em the strongest, are in different decades These who's-the-best threads are only as good as written by those who know and saw all the players discussed. And let's also remember the equipment was much different.

My gosh, I think Grady Mathews, another one-pocket phenom, used to play on 10-foot tables. Let's not forget Grady when we're talking about one-pocket.

 

[JB Cases]

This is one rarely mentioned fact about Efren. How many times has he quit after winning the 1st game and losing the 2nd? Efren always has one foot out the door. Ronnie would give up the nuts and sometimes lose, who ever heard of Efren losing any amount worth mentioning?

ONB

Grady's exact words were, "Efren won't stand still for a beating".

In some ways though that is smart. Efren is one player that never has money problems, never has visa issues, never has backer issues, plays in every event he cares to enter and people line up to play him all day in games they can't win.

Grady was a through-ticket who bet his own and that's admirable. But it also meant that Grady had a lot of times where he went bust.

My only thought is that if people were worried about Efren being one and done they should have negotiated multiple sets or played for larger amounts. I was told several years ago that any American could come to the Phillipines and get played for up to half a million dollars. I think it was Perry's son who made that claim after I asked what the limit was.

 

[jay helfert]

Grady's exact words were, "Efren won't stand still for a beating".

In some ways though that is smart. Efren is one player that never has money problems, never has visa issues, never has backer issues, plays in every event he cares to enter and people line up to play him all day in games they can't win.

Grady was a through-ticket who bet his own and that's admirable. But it also meant that Grady had a lot of times where he went bust.

My only thought is that if people were worried about Efren being one and done they should have negotiated multiple sets or played for larger amounts. I was told several years ago that any American could come to the Phillipines and get played for up to half a million dollars. I think it was Perry's son who made that claim after I asked what the limit was.

I don't know of anyone who ever went to the Philippines looking to play Efren some One Pocket. I suspect it's never happened! In all my visits to the Philippines I never saw Efren get a One Pocket game. Mostly he played Rotation and was also the best in the world at this game for a long, long time!

 

[Ken_4fun]

I don't know of anyone who ever went to the Philippines looking to play Efren some One Pocket. I suspect it's never happened! In all my visits to the Philippines I never saw Efren get a One Pocket game. Mostly he played Rotation and was also the best in the world at this game for a long, long time!

Not doubting you Jay, but I cant imagine any game that Efren is better at than one-pocket.

I have seen videos of Ronnie Allen playing and I have seen Efren play many times and I would take Efren 100X over.

I think folks that would take Ronnie, are voting with their hearts instead of their heads.

Efren is by far the best I have ever seen.

ken

 

[desi2960]

the smoke breaks

will help slow the game down a bit, as we all know one pocket is just too fast.

 

[jtompilot]

Was/is Corey considered that good of a one-pocket player? Genuine question.

The short answer is no.

Corey is one heck of a good player and kicks better than a mule. I just think he tries to come up with some super $hit and most of the time it just doesn't work in 1P. Of course he can beat anybody any given day because he's one of the most talented players ever.

 

[gbru]

Not doubting you Jay, but I cant imagine any game that Efren is better at than one-pocket.

I have seen videos of Ronnie Allen playing and I have seen Efren play many times and I would take Efren 100X over.

I think folks that would take Ronnie, are voting with their hearts instead of their heads.

Efren is by far the best I have ever seen.

ken

I also think Efren is the best one hole player ever... but I did not see Ronnie play in his prime. And to be fair Ken, most all of the videos that I've seen are when Ronnie had hit the 50 mark. I've been told by those that knew him that he was over the hill by then. In the match between Danny and Ronnie I would say there is no way they could come close to Efren...Especially when Efren was their age.

In short, I would conclude from my limited knowledge that Efren is the best "continuous" player that ever jointed a cue stick and possibly the best ever at one pocket...But I'm not quite as old as Jay...Isn't he like 80...hahaha..?

 

[miscrewed89]

Where was that 9-7 game ?

I did not see that particular game, but I did watch Efren give Cliff 9-7 at the Chattanooga Billiard Club in 1993. Long story short... Efren made Cliff look like an idiot.

Now, Scott and Richie and smoke breaks...
The only reason I included that in my original post is because I have a hard time believing they would rather play in a nonsmoking room. Sure, it's better for the nonsmoking spectators and sweaters, but it wasn't supposed to be about them. It was supposed to be about Scott and Richie GAMBLING with each other.