WOW BIADO vs. PULPUL Biado forgot to call the 10 ball on the hill and lost

[runouteasy]

Here's a radical idea. Why not just have players call slop on themselves. If you double rail bank a ball by accident or miss in the corner 3 rails into side then just concede the table to the opponent. Wouldn't this stop all the nonsense? If somebody slopped in a ball and tried to play it off as called just beat them in the parking lot like the good old days.

 

[sjm]

Does call shot ever subtract anything from 14.1 in any way? Why should rotation games be any different? I just don't get it.

The only time I can see call shot taking anything away from the game is if it is call shot/call safe, with the incoming shooter have the right to force the other player to shoot again. That rule does take away the two-way shot, but I don't see how the game is better or more exciting to watch if top pros can get rewarded for failing to pocket the ball in the intended (obvious) pocket. You can still have the two-way shot in call pocket if you don't have to declare safeties.

The only reason why there is so much controversy with this tournament is that they are forcing players to physically or verbally indicate the pocket they intend to pocket the money ball into. If they played by WPA rules none of this would have occurred.

Yes, call shot makes 14.1 slower and harder to watch. I would prefer that you only called combos and caroms --- otherwise you only keep shooting if you pocket the first object ball struck. Slop would be rare indeed. I believe that call shot contributed to the end of the straight pool era and the ultimate emergence of Texas Express as the pro game. Spectators want to watch a game that keeps moving. Call shot is a step in the opposite direction.

 

[parvus1202]

First of all, when this rule was announced nobody complians, nobody says bye bye. They all played, means they accepted the rule. Now that it went against them we have all these complaints? If anyone disagree with the rules then don't play. Start a tournament where there are no rules.

 

[King T]

you got that right!

First of all, when this rule was announced nobody complians, nobody says bye bye. They all played, means they accepted the rule. Now that it went against them we have all these complaints? If anyone disagree with the rules then don't play. Start a tournament where there are no rules.

Well said!

Most of the people complaining must not gamble or play tournaments, because if the did they'd know that this is part of the game, any and all games.

Ask Chris Webber, he called a time out in the finials of the NCAA College Basket Championship and it cost Michigan the game. No one said, well he wasn't sure or hey give him a break and let them have that time out.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Two or three things came to my mind after reading this:

1) WTF!
2) How much money was bet on this match and who was the favorite?
3) What a douche move to jump around in glee after you have won a game through your opponent's error...and a trivial error, at that
4) What a dumbass move to make it to the game ball and then "forget" to call it

Whoops! That is more than two or three. Sorry.

For what it's worth, I've been on the end of this F$%*ed Up rule a couple of times. Once in a state tournament finals when I called the 8-ball in a hole and the guy said OK and I didn't put the patch by the hole and then the guy jumped up and ran to the referee and said I didn't put the patch. I was prepared to put the patch before the shot but the pocket was on the opposite long end of the table from me and it was even MORE OBVIOUS of a shot than this one. AND I DID CALL IT and he ACKNOWLEDGED IT! But I still was WRONG because I didn't put the patch, according to the rules.

With that said, I have NO PROBLEM with calling EVERY shot and EVERY hole. They say that the rolls always EVEN out, but I don't trust the math. I like the idea of knowing exactly what my opponent is shooting at and I don't mind him knowing what I'm attempting to do. The way I figure it, the best player will eventually come out winner. If that ain't ME, then so be it.

Aloha.

P.S., I also like to play where ALL fouls are called (i.e., one foot on the floor, touching any ball with anything other than the tip of the cue, etc.).

 

[Neil]

First off, the refs were an embarrassment at best. Not paying attention, not even knowing the rules themselves. Not trained at all.

As to the rule of calling the ten. Like it or not, it was the rule. Now, some are saying that it serves no purpose. Or that is should just be dismissed at times because it doesn't really change the game or give any real benefit. Or that it's unsportsmanlike to actually follow the rules set in place. Or that it is nitty to call someone on breaking the rules.

I really don't understand that kind of thinking at all. Rules are rules. You agreed to play by the rules, then play by those rules. No matter how stupid a rule it may be. Some are even saying that they would have fouled on purpose to let the guy that committed the first foul to win. After all, that is true sportsmanship.

I call total B.S. on that. Here's why- a while back, there was a rule of no contact with any ball other than the cb. Many got called for fouling because their clothing or hair touched another ball. What did that rule accomplish? Did someone's hair touching the ball affect the outcome of the game at all? NO! Yet, the rule was followed simply because it was the rule. Eventually, the powers to be decided to get rid of that rule.

Another case in point- the rule is that you can only touch the cb once. Some of the same people on here complaining about the call ten ball rule have posted with pride that they gave up ball in hand to their opponent because they felt their tip touch the cb during address. No one saw it, but they knew it happened, so they did the honorable thing and gave up ball in hand.

So, I have to ask, how did giving up ball in hand benefit the game for you? Did you touching the cb without moving it in the slightest affect what the outcome of the shot would be? NO, it did not. Yet, you feel honorable for calling the foul on yourself because that is the rule. Yet, here, you somehow totally switch sides, and feel the opposite on the rules, that it is a bad rule and shouldn't be followed, and that your opponent is in the wrong if he calls you on the foul. Doesn't make any sense, other than some on here like to play by their own set of rules and not abide by given set of rules.

 

[KRJ]

Actually, one could argue that he called the shot. It appears that he points his cue towards the side, as if saying side pocket.

In pro pool, this rule should not be there, period.

 

[pampi]

Pulpul is so ignorant.... jumping like a retarded person....

 

[HawaiianEye]

I DON'T golf, but I've NEVER heard of a guy moving up in a tournament because a player ahead of him forgot to sign his scorecard and the guy said "oh, it was a minor rule, he deserves the hole...I'll let him have it and take less money".

 

[alstl]

Glad to see Pulpul lose to Efren after he did that. The referee was going to let it slide.

Best case scenario would be for that rule to be never seen again.

 

[KRJ]

I DON'T golf, but I've NEVER heard of a guy moving up in a tournament because a player ahead of him forgot to sign his scorecard and the guy said "oh, it was a minor rule, he deserves the hole...I'll let him have it and take less money".

But tournament officials call that for golf, some jackass does not run down no report it.

The referee did not make the call, but then the moron starts jumping up and down, and suddenly the ref makes the call, even though it looks like he was not sure.....but it still appears he called the shot.

 

[BRussell]

First off, the refs were an embarrassment at best. Not paying attention, not even knowing the rules themselves. Not trained at all.

As to the rule of calling the ten. Like it or not, it was the rule. Now, some are saying that it serves no purpose. Or that is should just be dismissed at times because it doesn't really change the game or give any real benefit. Or that it's unsportsmanlike to actually follow the rules set in place. Or that it is nitty to call someone on breaking the rules.

I really don't understand that kind of thinking at all. Rules are rules. You agreed to play by the rules, then play by those rules. No matter how stupid a rule it may be. Some are even saying that they would have fouled on purpose to let the guy that committed the first foul to win. After all, that is true sportsmanship.

I think there's some ambiguity about the rules. Jay came on here and said they were told the tournament was using standard WPA rules. It appears that they either added an additional "explicitly call the 10-ball" rule, or they (incorrectly) interpreted the standard rules as requiring that. I think it matters which one it was, and whether it was written out.

It's interesting how some people fit into the "rules are rules" approach and others fit into the "rules serve the game" approach. It reminds me of Kohlberg's theories of moral development. Some people reason at a conventional level (the rules are rules approach) and other people at a post-conventional level (principles supersede rules).

 

[mudball]

So, I have to ask, how did giving up ball in hand benefit the game for you? Did you touching the cb without moving it in the slightest affect what the outcome of the shot would be? NO, it did not. Yet, you feel honorable for calling the foul on yourself because that is the rule. Yet, here, you somehow totally switch sides, and feel the opposite on the rules, that it is a bad rule and shouldn't be followed, and that your opponent is in the wrong if he calls you on the foul. Doesn't make any sense, other than some on here like to play by their own set of rules and not abide by given set of rules.

 

[Bob Jewett]

What a fktard jumping up and down like that winning due to a technicality. Karma is coming for you son.

But it is not the fault of the players or I suppose even the referee. This whole ugly, sorry mess it the fault of the idiot promoter and/or the idiot TD.

 

[Mark Griffin]

Bob is 100% correct.
You cannot blame the players - it is the officials that caused the problem. The promoter/TD should have never gone with this rule!

Why did Pulpul get the placement he did? The cue ball was not in the final position? and the 10-ball was put on the spot. Just seems a little odd.

Mark Griffin

But it is not the fault of the players or I suppose even the referee. This whole ugly, sorry mess it the fault of the idiot promoter and/or the idiot TD.

 

[Bob Jewett]

First of all, when this rule was announced nobody complians, nobody says bye bye. They all played, means they accepted the rule. Now that it went against them we have all these complaints? If anyone disagree with the rules then don't play. ...

You seem to be assuming that the players heard and understood the rule change. I think that's not a good assumption. Were you there?

If they are going to go with this confusing, goofy, ignorant, banger rule, then they should go whole hog: make the shooter mark the pocket. The patch, the size of a salad plate, could have sponsors' logos on it.

 

[Celophanewrap]

When are these players going to learn the rules? Regardless of the behavior of Pulpul there are rules to the game. Just like any other sport. You follow the rules.

Biado committed a foul and therefore did not win the game.

As far as who would want to win a game like that. Oh, maybe the player who throws a hail mary pass at the end of a game, full court shot at the end of the basketball game. They will all take the win.

In a previous thread I think it was mentioned a few times that The WPA rules indicate that in an obvious situation the pocket does not have to be called. I've never read the WPA rules, I don't know if that's a fact, but if it is maybe that difference wasn't clear to alot of these players. Even so, did anybody in the world have any question about where he intended to put the ball. A rule like this for players at that level sorta matches the reaction by Pulpul - both extremely stupid.
Every day in these forums we discuss the state of pool and the issues regarding it, why it's in the sad shape it's in. This is one example. After watching the SVB clip I watched several others, I would have to question in many cases, including the 10 ball, whether or not the shot or pocket was called. I don't know if the rule is call all of your shots/pockets, or just the 10 ball, but it would seem as though the enforcement of this rule is horribly inconsistent either way. A real pity, turned a seemingly quality event into a real joke

 

[alstl]

First off, the refs were an embarrassment at best. Not paying attention, not even knowing the rules themselves. Not trained at all.

As to the rule of calling the ten. Like it or not, it was the rule. Now, some are saying that it serves no purpose. Or that is should just be dismissed at times because it doesn't really change the game or give any real benefit. Or that it's unsportsmanlike to actually follow the rules set in place. Or that it is nitty to call someone on breaking the rules.

First of all, the refs in both the Van Boening and Biado matches only called it because Alcano and Paopao insisted on it. I saw Efren in two matches not say anything when his opponent forgot to call the 10 and the ref let it slide.

Second, that is not a standard rule and these guys play so much pool it becomes second nature for them to play by standard rules. Saying they should follow a stupid rule ignores reality, it isn't like they deliberately broke the rule.

If the made a "rule" in the US requiring people to drive on the left side of the road there would be tons of accidents because people aren't used to doing it that way.

It isn't the refs or the players, it is whoever came up with a weird rule. Come up with a weird rule - weird things happen.

 

[f210]

Jay said that it was announced in the players' meeting. Shane called the shot on the 10 ball on his 2nd win in the Alcano match so we can assume he knows about this rule.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Yes, call shot makes 14.1 slower ...

I think I don't understand this comment at all. In tournament 14.1 players rarely actually call their shots. Even in informal matches only newbies and twits actually call all their shots. Where do you see the problem, Stu?