wow, facebook blowup

[Bob Jewett]

... So hey what does Bob Jewett think about this Cyclop discussion? ...

I think quality control and good design are often large problems in pool. As for the specific problems discussed, I have never played with Cyclop balls so it's hard to give an opinion. I like the traditional colors of pool balls, but I don't mind the Aramith TV colors too much.

If the recent roll-off seen on lags (from the China open?) was due to the balls being out of round, then somebody at some company should find a new job and the TD needs to be more careful about having the right equipment available.

 

[terryhanna]

POV POOL Interview with Cyclop Representatives https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bxBqVyQnSw

 

[Lumocolor]

Both players play on the same table, using the same balls. If someone beats you while playing on an off level table with crappy balls it is safe to assume that he would still have beaten you on a level table with other balls.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Both players play on the same table, using the same balls. If someone beats you while playing on an off level table with crappy balls it is safe to assume that he would still have beaten you on a level table with other balls.

This is not an accurate statement. Very suspect.

 

[jojopiff]

Both players play on the same table, using the same balls. If someone beats you while playing on an off level table with crappy balls it is safe to assume that he would still have beaten you on a level table with other balls.

Let me say I've never lost due to the roll off (nor won) but in a given match (BCA Nationals race to 5) there might be 1-2 shots where precise position is needed. Let's say that 1-2 times go for Player A. So no, I don't believe that Player A would necessarily beat Player B "normally"

 

[CJ Wiley]

we are playing a "carnival version" of pool these days

Unfortunately you are right in your rant.

Face it, we are playing a "carnival version" of pool these days. You will never see dotted cue balls, magic racks, or jump cues in snooker because they actually care about the integrity of their game/sport. Throw in super fast cloth and one foul rules and you have what we see today.......a tic tac toe version of the "master game".

Ok I don't rant alot, I feel like ranting today

/Rant on

Companies keep inventing new stuff every few years to make things new, well guess what. It's not working, at least for me.

One of the worst invention that happened in pool was the cueball with alot of red dots, and they say "It's so that audience see the spin" well, it wasn't needed, it's something extra, no pro liked it in the first place, and imo classic was always good, the white cueball without dots.

Well look at snooker, theyre balls look the same, nothing changes in there, snooker cloth always green, balls always the same, and the cueball has no dots, and snooker keeps growing.

While in pool, they do ridiculous inventions, they change cloth from green(classic) to blue claiming its good for the eyes, which I also don't agree with, green always the best color for the eyes, but then you watch pool from the classic 90's where audience are big and all wearing suits, and watch it now, look at the difference.

I say keep inventing ridiculous things and pool audience/views will shrink even more.

/Rant off.

 

[cardiac kid]

Chris...A witness to the shot that Putnam missed, that this whole uproar is about, positively said that Putnam DOGGED IT. According to him it was not the Cyclop balls, it was Shawn Putnam just flat missed, apparently from shooting too hard!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott,

Watched the shot in real time and when repeated by the streamer the next day. I've played a rack or two on Diamond Smart / Proam tables. Even I know what shots can and can not be made. Learned Diamond pocket speed as well. Shawn made an error. Plain and simple. Don't most posters on this thread realize there were witnesses to this miss?

First year I played at the Rio BCAPL's, I struggled mightily with the Cyclop balls. Primarily the cue ball. First year since 1991 I failed to at least cash. Including Super Seniors where I felt I was a favorite. This past event, I went out of my way to practice with those ball sets. Did much, much better. Still had a skid or two. Didn't play position for the six once and find I was about to shoot the seven.

Have lots of respect for Shawn. Lost to him both times we played on the old Viking Tour. Best guess is he just mis-played the shot. As the event favorite, an excuse or two was in order. Think he took the low road. Understand his feelings as I've never missed a key ball either .

Lyn

 

[Mark Griffin]

Putnam FB

Lyn,

Shawn is trying to blame equipment for an error. Happens all the time.

Still not factual - and look at all the BS it has raised. Many people say all kinds of half truths or just outright lies.

The facts are this- the balls are fine. If there is any problem, it is almost always the cue ball. Show me a repeatable (exclusive) problem and I will fix it.

Please research all the previous AZ threads. It is not a popularity contest- it is supposed to a 'reasonable quality' issue. For a player to tell me either set is better than the other - they must know something I don't. Now prove it - with facts!

But tell me sets play bad and I call BS. I have seen and played with too many of them.

Markg

 

[CJ Wiley]

"Shawn is trying to blame equipment for an error. Happens all the time"

Are you saying that Shawn Putnam blames equipment for errors all the time?

He doesn't seem like that type of guy, but of course I'm not around him "all the time".

Brandon Shuff also points out some things about the Cyclops balls that I didn't know about. Here's his post from FaceBook

Brandon Shuff --- I met the owner/founder of the cyclops balls at the Derby last year. He's put in some hard work but I believe he's hit a dead end. I found out that the cyclops balls weigh a little more than aramith, few grams heavier but can't remember exactly how many. The guy also had tried many ways to develop a cue ball similar to the "measle" ball, but no luck because Aramith has a patent on number of dots on their cue ball. Cyclops is a shitty ball and I don't think the guy can produce any better so he's forced to market the product he already invested in. So would you right? Lol. So if you were wondering why so many top level players look like they struggle trying to draw the ball a foot or two it's because material and the weight are different. Also a rack of cyclop balls will explode louder at the breakshot because of the weight. So, using cyclops balls means the ball reactions for all shots will be different and an adjustment phase will be necessary. Brutal for the pros.
So, the first thought that comes to mind is basketball, let's watch Kobe play with different leather and weighted basketball under pressure and see if he still drains those crunch time shots with same precision and confidence.
Aramith has the better product, and they can't offer the deal cyclop does.

And Allison Fisher ----

The cyclop cue ball is 3grams heavier than the other balls in the set.
Aramith weigh the same as the measle cue ball thus making them more predictable.
12 hrs · Like · 11

Lyn,

Shawn is trying to blame equipment for an error. Happens all the time.


Markg

 

[cardiac kid]

Are you saying that Shawn Putnam blames equipment for errors all the time?

He doesn't seem like that type of guy, but of course I'm not around him "all the time".

CJ,

I've had a few balls skid, squirt, slide or whatever you wish to call it. When its happened, the in-correct movement of the ball is visible. You KNOW something went wrong. Perhaps it's my old age (70) or my eyesight 20/20 that let me not see Shawn's ball skid. I've reviewed it in my mind several times. Other people who were part of the streams "chat" group watching the shot in question came to the same conclusion. Shawn missed the shot. Plain and simple.

To be perfect honest, my 20/20 vision is 20 inches in each eye :grin: ! Well my dominant eye is 20/20 at 70 years young. I've made errors before but I do not feel this is one. JMHO.

Lyn

 

[rexus31]

Are you saying that Shawn Putnam blames equipment for errors all the time?

He doesn't seem like that type of guy, but of course I'm not around him "all the time".

Brandon Shuff also points out some things about the Cyclops balls that I didn't know about. Here's his post from FaceBook

I don't have multiple sets of either to compare like set to like set, but I did weight my Super Pro TV Set and my Cyclop Skittles Set this morning and here are the results:

Super Pro TV Set: 1 Ball: 170g; 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13 Balls: 168g; 3, 4, 6, 10, 14, 15 Balls: 167g, 12 Ball: 166g; Measle Cue Ball: 169g.
Cyclop Skittles Set: All Balls including the Cue Ball weighed in at 169g except for the 3 Ball which weighed in at 168g.

With the sets I have, Cyclop is more consistent. I've not had any roll off of the object balls and can't speak to the Cue Ball because I prefer the Measle Ball. I think they play great and prefer them over the Super Pros because they stay clean longer.

 

[CJ Wiley]

My solution is to not play, but some of these pros must compete

My favorite is the Centennial Balls, all others are a distant 2nd. Skids happen with all balls, usually the cue ball jumps slightly and you can even hear the "thud" on contact.

The missed shot was probably the last straw for Shawn. When someone has his perspective they can see a multitude of things wrong, they just have to pick one.

My only complain is the balls are not visually appealing. They could have picked a lot of colors to separate the 6 and 7.....it's hard to believe they actually did any research and development to arrive at those colors. Who cares if they look good on a web cam, it's the players that have to use them.

Shawn picked this particular thing to vent on and I think we can all relate. I've been to some tournaments that I literally couldn't think of anything positive to say. My solution is to not be around these situations, however, some of these pros must compete to fulfill their destinies....or even make some money if that's their incentive.

CJ,

I've had a few balls skid, squirt, slide or whatever you wish to call it. When its happened, the in-correct movement of the ball is visible. You KNOW something went wrong. Perhaps it's my old age (70) or my eyesight 20/20 that let me not see Shawn's ball skid. I've reviewed it in my mind several times. Other people who were part of the streams "chat" group watching the shot in question came to the same conclusion. Shawn missed the shot. Plain and simple.

To be perfect honest, my 20/20 vision is 20 inches in each eye :grin: ! Well my dominant eye is 20/20 at 70 years young. I've made errors before but I do not feel this is one. JMHO.

Lyn

 

[Mikjary]

ALL I KNOW IS I'VE NEVER RANTED OR GOTTEN PISSED OFF AT ANYTHING IN MY LIFE! OR THREW THINGS, PUNCHED WALLS, KICKED ANYTHING OR EVEN ABUSED MY POOL EQUIPMENT! At least not that I recall today, anyways.

Best,
Mike

PS I just remembered I threw a hammer yesterday, but nobody was around to see it...didn't count. Felt good to vent.

 

[Mark Griffin]

Putnam

No- I am saying equipment gets blamed by players all the time. I did not mean it to interpreted that Shawn complained all the time. Sorry for nit being clearer.

Brandon Shuff is wrong on his weights.
Allison Fischer is wrong on her weights.
My numbers match rexus31 (and many others) exactly. Surely there can be variance but I'm not buying 3 grams after checking 20 sets.

Now- if anyone doubts me, my office is in Henderson, Nv. We have couple hundred sets you can come weigh- including about 40-50 Aramiths (which are for sale)!

I just want to deal in facts. I don't care about Brunswick Centennials. They are great balls but cannot be used for obvious reasons. And this is not a popularity contest. I am just saying either ball is a good product and is fine for pool tournaments.

Markg

Are you saying that Shawn Putnam blames equipment for errors all the time?

He doesn't seem like that type of guy, but of course I'm not around him "all the time".

Brandon Shuff also points out some things about the Cyclops balls that I didn't know about. Here's his post from FaceBook

 

[watchez]

I just want to deal in facts. I don't care about Brunswick Centennials. They are great balls but cannot be used for obvious reasons. And this is not a popularity contest. I am just saying either ball is a good product and is fine for pool tournaments.

Markg

Beyond the weight issue which you have resolved......is the finish on the Cyclop balls the same as the Aramith and is the material the balls are actually made out of the same as well? Just curious.

 

[CJ Wiley]

For me it's the visual presentation, I agree they all play virtually the same.

I'm surprised Brandon and Allison don't know how to use scales, and of course, that's not their area of expertise.

For me it's definitely the visual presentation, I presume they all play virtually the same. Looks may just be in the mind, but it's a difficult thing to change. It's like seeing your favorite car in pink......it's still the car you like, you just don't want to admit it.

To think of going to a big tournament with all the "whistles and bells" and seeing those colored balls would be a huge let down. This is just me personally, I'm sure there's players that don't care, for me it's like seeing the golf ball anything but white, or football in a rainbow color......it's depressing even writing about, in this case I'm a purist.

No- I am saying equipment gets blamed by players all the time. I did not mean it to interpreted that Shawn complained all the time. Sorry for nit being clearer.

Brandon Shuff is wrong on his weights.
Allison Fischer is wrong on her weights.
My numbers match rexus31 (and many others) exactly. Surely there can be variance but I'm not buying 3 grams after checking 20 sets.

Now- if anyone doubts me, my office is in Henderson, Nv. We have couple hundred sets you can come weigh- including about 40-50 Aramiths (which are for sale)!

I just want to deal in facts. I don't care about Brunswick Centennials. They are great balls but cannot be used for obvious reasons. And this is not a popularity contest. I am just saying either ball is a good product and is fine for pool tournaments.

Markg

 

[youngstownkid]

I didn't think balls skid when you shoot it hard, thought that only happened inconsistently at a med slow speed, then consistent skids at slow speeds...might just be my super aramith pros or the way (or substance, no wax Pledge) I clean them tho

 

[thebaby]

Why change something that is not broken

Post Deleted.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

I'm surprised Brandon and Allison don't know how to use scales, and of course, that's not their area of expertise.

Maybe there's a possibility that they don't use the same scales you use?




Perhaps they could remove the nails from the pan and replace them with a ball? It probably wouldn't require much expertise.

 

[Johnnyt]

I like the cheap, dirty, beer stained set of balls that use to be on bar tables. Balls that that are sticky and faded. I feel it gives me an edge over the players that freak over less than perfect balls, cloth, rails, too much noise and lighting. Johnnyt