Taiwan TOI

[CJ Wiley]

Francisco Bustemante had all the qualities when he came over in the early 90s

Why are you following me around asking me to watch a video about somebody I've never seen before and that you obviously know all about, then cherry pick a line out of my post, and then post a lengthy article about how wrong one line in the post is? Or should I say, part of a sentence?

IOW, please bait somebody else because it's becoming personal when you do that. I don't really care about every monster player out there. I have no interest in getting to know who's who in the pool world. When you ask me a question you already know the answer to, it makes me think you're looking for attention or baiting me. Can you see what I'm trying to tell you? I think you do.

Thanks for the links. He is a strong player, like I said. Time will tell how strong. Players are like the tides. They ebb and flow from year to year. The true greats stay on top until a faster gun comes along.

Best,
Mike

There are plenty of these so called "monster players," however they have to also be marketable. The Philippines have produced some of these type players, and they're still around today in the spotlight (over-seas)......and I'm sure there will be others very soon.

Francisco Bustemante had all the qualities when he came over in the early 90s. I seriously doubt if anyone will ever play any better than Francisco did on his best days, AND have the looks, charisma and poise..

 

[Mikjary]

There are plenty of these so called "monster players," however they have to also be marketable. The Philippines have produced some of these type players, and they're still around today in the spotlight (over-seas)......and I'm sure there will be others very soon.

Francisco Bustemante had all the qualities when he came over in the early 90s. I seriously doubt if anyone will ever play any better than Francisco did on his best days, AND have the looks, charisma and poise..

Exactly right. That was my point. The monster players come along every year and peak. They play top notch and for different reasons, their game fades. Some stay on top, if they continue to grind out the action and/or fight in the tourney world while promoting and showcasing their talent..

When I rate an unknown player's ability with a quick glance, I say they're at least a certain level of proficiency. They might be the next CJ, but it takes more than one race to find that out.

I'm not going to say or know who they can beat unless I see them around for awhile and how they match up. Once I can clock their speed, I don't have to say, "at least" anymore.

Best,
Mike

BTW, (not @ CJ) to me, "at least" means the they are more than a certain level and could be a lot more...reading comprehension factoid for nit pickers. :grin:

 

[peteypooldude]

There you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGZd3CBa0vQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8urZfrq81D4

This is 10 ball rating game and his scores are pretty good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADP6M7WO1Ic

:grin:

It's funny that there's a sign that says " no gambling " and a guy standing right below it with cash in hand

 

[spartan]

Why are you following me around asking me to watch a video about somebody I've never seen before

One sentence is enough to get you in knots and accuse me of being follower. Goodness if had taken more sentences you would probably accuse me of being molester
Follow you? Don't flatter yourself, you are not Shakira or Taylor Swift

@Spartan, another video at 15 years of age,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhbmPcyW26I

Thanks, arps. 15 wow that was age he won Cebu tourney

 

[CJ Wiley]

He pointed to the wall, and said "that sign says no gambling too".

It's funny that there's a sign that says " no gambling " and a guy standing right below it with cash in hand

I saw a guy jump a ball at a pool room that doesn't allow "jump shots". He pointed to the wall, and said "that sign says no gambling too". That's one of the best come-backs I've heard in awhile. LoL

 

[CJ Wiley]

Good players are pretty common

Exactly right. That was my point. The monster players come along every year and peak. They play top notch and for different reasons, their game fades. Some stay on top, if they continue to grind out the action and/or fight in the tourney world while promoting and showcasing their talent..

When I rate an unknown player's ability with a quick glance, I say they're at least a certain level of proficiency. They might be the next CJ, but it takes more than one race to find that out.

I'm not going to say or know who they can beat unless I see them around for awhile and how they match up. Once I can clock their speed, I don't have to say, "at least" anymore.

Best,
Mike

:

I agree, Mike, there are always these scenarios.


Good players are pretty common, what's exceptional is the marketability of players like Fransisco Bustemante, Rodney Morris, Dennis Hatch, Johnny and Earl Strickland.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I saw a guy jump a ball at a pool room that doesn't allow "jump shots". He pointed to the wall, and said "that sign says no gambling too". That's one of the best come-backs I've heard in awhile. LoL

I played pool with John Waihee (the Governor of Hawaii 1986-94) in Hawaiian Brian's and he was standing next to a "NO SMOKING" sign and he was smoking.

He also was using an original Balabushka that he bought out of the pro shop for $8000.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If you just cue it a HAIR outside of center it will deflect a half diamond on a 4'-5' shot.

This is a huge exaggeration. Even high-squirt house cues don’t produce half that much squirt.

This is why I strongly recommend NOT using center ball because{a slight stoking error} will happen and you won't be able to tell which side of center you "might" have hit.

CB goes left when you cue it right of center and vice verse – what’s the mystery?

I know one thing, you will not know for sure unless you start favoring one side of the cue ball

Favoring one side of the CB, a little or a lot, doesn’t change the number of misses in both directions from cueing errors. A better stroke fixes that, not a gimmick.

and TOI is the best side because that's where your contact point is. Think about this, and it will make more and more sense.

If you want to believe this, I think it may be better not to think about it too much.

pj
chgo

 

[TATE]

This is a huge exaggeration. Even high-squirt house cues don’t produce half that much squirt.


CB goes left when you cue it right of center and vice verse – what’s the mystery?


Favoring one side of the CB, a little or a lot, doesn’t change the number of misses in both directions from cueing errors. A better stroke fixes that, not a gimmick.


If you want to believe this, I think it may be better not to think about it too much.

pj
chgo

Hi Patrick,

Good to see you posting again and welcome back. We seem to have had a knowledge gap around here since you left.

Chris

 

[Masayoshi]

This is a huge exaggeration. Even high-squirt house cues don’t produce half that much squirt.


CB goes left when you cue it right of center and vice verse – what’s the mystery?

The mystery is that a contact on a center ball-intended hit can come with 3 different outcomes, right, center, or left. Right and left will often have much different results in deflection, curve, and position than what was intended with a center ball hit. Using a little bit of left english, on the other hand, can only result in center, a little left, and slightly more left. The two "bad" hits; center and slightly more left, wont change the outcome of the shot a whole lot because "slightly more left" will have similar deflection, curve, and cue ball action to "a little left" and center ball is not subject to deflection or curve (although position might not go as intended).

Favoring one side of the CB, a little or a lot, doesn’t change the number of misses in both directions from cueing errors. A better stroke fixes that, not a gimmick.

Favoring one side of the cue ball doesn't change the cueing misses in either direction, but it does change the expected results of the intended shot because the two possible poor hits: slightly more english than expected or center ball, will generally give results closer to your intention than having unintended english on a center ball shot. If someone has a poor enough stroke to hit outside english when you intended to use inside, TOI probably will be counter productive to their game.

If you want to believe this, I think it may be better not to think about it too much.

pj
chgo

I think its debateable. For most people, it is easier to visualize the action of outside english rather than inside english. Plus, most position shots that require getting from one end of the table to the other are easier and require less cue ball travel with outside.

 

[CJ Wiley]

rules are just guidelines to politicians

I played pool with John Waihee (the Governor of Hawaii 1986-94) in Hawaiian Brian's and he was standing next to a "NO SMOKING" sign and he was smoking.

He also was using an original Balabushka that he bought out of the pro shop for $8000.

That's funny, I guess rules are just guidelines to politicians.

 

[CJ Wiley]

We were not put on this planet to play pool, so what seems natural is often limiting

There's much more to using TOI than many realize, of course with out experiencing it a player will not get the benefit. Playing pool at the highest level is not something one can learn with an actual pool table, and the desire to overcome natural tenancies. We were not put on this planet to play pool, so what seems natural is often limiting.

For many pool players it's a natural tendency to want to spin shots in with outside "helping" English. This technique is very useful, especially if you're trying to change the natural angle of the cue ball after contact. There's another way to do this if you want to "master a shot" so you can hit the three parts of the pocket. To do this you must become more accurate and develop a "FEEL" for the pocket. This isn't any more difficult, it just requires you to simplify your Game and reduce calculations.

There are three {main} calculations you make to be accurate using "outside English," 1st) - you must judge the immediate deflection and 2nd) - you must judge how much the spin brings the cue ball "back" to it's original "shot line". 3rd) - you must decide where to hit the cue ball to accomplish the intended shot. (these calculations are related, but not necessarily connected like they are with the TOI Technique)

You will find it's necessary to hit these shots at a variety of speeds and a variety of spins to do what you need with the cue ball. This takes a LOT of different calculations because speed effects deflection AND spin. Where you hit the cue ball and how far over to get your "outside English" also effects deflection AND spin.

Over the course of hours, you will have to make numerous calculations and instinctive judgments to make every shot as planned. With the 'Touch Of Inside' system of play I am showing you how to reduce the amount of calculations and instinctive judgments considerably.

The TOI Technique shows you how to hit one "theme" of speeds, one "theme" of spins, and one "theme" of deflection. I have played many players in my life and the only concern I had was if they would play long enough. Because, even though this edge against other accomplished players may be only 1-2%, it will show up over time.

If you're cutting a ball at a "half ball" angle down the rail to the left and using "outside" (right English") you cue ball is immediately going to deflect into the object ball slightly. To overcome undercutting it you will need to spin the cue ball to make it curve back and the spin will help cut it in. This may "FEEL" like it's helping the cut, but IS IT REALLY?

You are having to hit the speed correctly, the spin correctly, the contact point (shot line) correctly and hit the cue ball precisely to do this. I'm sure you do this very well, but how about under pressure? How do you make all these calculations playing a champion player? This is where your unconscious will start to falter and break down.

You are simply over whelming yourself with these calculations and when you add pressure? I don't know, how does it effect you, do you play better or worse? How about over the course of a 5-10 hour set, do you rely on your game to get better and better or do you have "ups and downs?" With the TOI Technique I teach players how to use (as much as possible, of course there's exceptions, and less that you may think) ONE SPEED - ONE SHOT ANGLE REFERENCE (center or edge) - ONE TIP TARGET (the "Touch" of Inside).

The one thing you guard against {using TOI} is overcutting the ball, however, if you're going to miss a shot would you rather over cut it or under cut it? I don't know about you, but when I under cut a shot I feel like a "dogged it," however, when I over cut a shot I feel like I know what I need to do to correct what I did wrong.

TOI increases consistency, which strengthens confidence and makes your Game strong, reliable, and very intimidating.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...slightly more english than expected or center ball, will generally give results closer to your intention than having unintended english on a center ball shot.

Sorry, but this is simply wrong. Hitting left or right of where you want to has the same effect whether you're trying to hit centerball or trying to favor one side. "Too much left" produces the same result as "unintended left" (and vice verse). Confining the error to one side of the cue ball doesn't change anything.

I understand how it can seem like more or less of the same is better than some vs. none, but that's a visualization error and flawed logic.

pj
chgo

 

[Masayoshi]

Sorry, but this is simply wrong. Hitting left or right of where you want to has the same effect whether you're trying to hit centerball or trying to favor one side. "Too much left" produces the same result as "unintended left" (and vice verse). Confining the error to one side of the cue ball doesn't change anything.

I understand how it can seem like more or less of the same is better than some vs. none, but that's a visualization error and flawed logic.

pj
chgo

No, not really. If you are only talking about deflection, I will agree with you, an off set hit is an off set hit, but when you take into account speed adjustments made for curve and throw, which cancel out deflection at low offsets and the right speed, hitting off center from the out set and adjusting for the effects of the off center hit is superior to trying to hit center ball and not accounting for those affects.

You could say that it is possible to adjust your speed so that the curve and throw of an off set hit cancels out deflection the same as an intended off center hit, except for the fact that inside english effectively throws the ball more than outside english at small offsets, therefore a universal adjustment for either wont work, and besides, nobody does that when hitting center ball anyways.

You also ignore the point about position. Allowing your position to be dictated by the random chance of whichever side of the cue ball you happen to hit might be adequate for many situations, but in situations where you have to have the cue ball going in the correct direction or you have to have the cue ball die off the rail rather than run, it is better to make sure you are cueing with the correct english or in a worst-hit scenario, no english.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Thanks for the detailed and sincere response, Masayoshi; I appreciate it - but I still disagree.

...when you take into account speed adjustments made for curve and throw, which cancel out deflection at low offsets and the right speed, hitting off center from the out set and adjusting for the effects of the off center hit is superior to trying to hit center ball and not accounting for those affects.

Adjusting for the effects of an off center hit only adjusts for that off center hit - favoring one side of the cue ball doesn't make the adjustment any more universal. A successful shot is like a straight shot with no squirve - any stroke error is like layering another complete shot on top of the original shot, with its own independent squirve issues undiminished by the adjustments you've made for the intended shot.

You also ignore the point about position. Allowing your position to be dictated by the random chance of whichever side of the cue ball you happen to hit might be adequate for many situations, but in situations where you have to have the cue ball going in the correct direction or you have to have the cue ball die off the rail rather than run

Whatever direction you want the CB to go, with or without rail interaction, is affected in the same way by an inaccurate hit whether you're favoring one side or not. "Too much left spin" is the same as "unintended left spin" and "too little left spin" is the same as "unintended right spin" - both change the CB path in the same way.

it is better to make sure you are cueing with the correct English

Only the correct amount of English is "the correct English". More or less is not better just because it's in the same direction.

pj
chgo

 

[Bambu]

There's much more to using TOI than many realize, of course with out experiencing it a player will not get the benefit. Playing pool at the highest level is not something one can learn with an actual pool table, and the desire to overcome natural tenancies. We were not put on this planet to play pool, so what seems natural is often limiting.

For many pool players it's a natural tendency to want to spin shots in with outside "helping" English. This technique is very useful, especially if you're trying to change the natural angle of the cue ball after contact. There's another way to do this if you want to "master a shot" so you can hit the three parts of the pocket. To do this you must become more accurate and develop a "FEEL" for the pocket. This isn't any more difficult, it just requires you to simplify your Game and reduce calculations.

There are three {main} calculations you make to be accurate using "outside English," 1st) - you must judge the immediate deflection and 2nd) - you must judge how much the spin brings the cue ball "back" to it's original "shot line". 3rd) - you must decide where to hit the cue ball to accomplish the intended shot. (these calculations are related, but not necessarily connected like they are with the TOI Technique)

You will find it's necessary to hit these shots at a variety of speeds and a variety of spins to do what you need with the cue ball. This takes a LOT of different calculations because speed effects deflection AND spin. Where you hit the cue ball and how far over to get your "outside English" also effects deflection AND spin.

Over the course of hours, you will have to make numerous calculations and instinctive judgments to make every shot as planned. With the 'Touch Of Inside' system of play I am showing you how to reduce the amount of calculations and instinctive judgments considerably.

The TOI Technique shows you how to hit one "theme" of speeds, one "theme" of spins, and one "theme" of deflection. I have played many players in my life and the only concern I had was if they would play long enough. Because, even though this edge against other accomplished players may be only 1-2%, it will show up over time.

If you're cutting a ball at a "half ball" angle down the rail to the left and using "outside" (right English") you cue ball is immediately going to deflect into the object ball slightly. To overcome undercutting it you will need to spin the cue ball to make it curve back and the spin will help cut it in. This may "FEEL" like it's helping the cut, but IS IT REALLY?

You are having to hit the speed correctly, the spin correctly, the contact point (shot line) correctly and hit the cue ball precisely to do this. I'm sure you do this very well, but how about under pressure? How do you make all these calculations playing a champion player? This is where your unconscious will start to falter and break down.

You are simply over whelming yourself with these calculations and when you add pressure? I don't know, how does it effect you, do you play better or worse? How about over the course of a 5-10 hour set, do you rely on your game to get better and better or do you have "ups and downs?" With the TOI Technique I teach players how to use (as much as possible, of course there's exceptions, and less that you may think) ONE SPEED - ONE SHOT ANGLE REFERENCE (center or edge) - ONE TIP TARGET (the "Touch" of Inside).

The one thing you guard against {using TOI} is overcutting the ball, however, if you're going to miss a shot would you rather over cut it or under cut it? I don't know about you, but when I under cut a shot I feel like a "dogged it," however, when I over cut a shot I feel like I know what I need to do to correct what I did wrong.

TOI increases consistency, which strengthens confidence and makes your Game strong, reliable, and very intimidating.

Regardless of which side of the ball is hit, deflection, speed and spin need to be calculated. Sometimes swerve too. The main difference is that outside spin eliminates throw, inside usually does not. Perhaps that's why for most players, outside spin is easier to use.

I'm also thinking, as far as margin of error goes: If I try to hit a touch of either side of the cue ball but hit center instead, I cant imagine the ball still going in. I mean if you miss your mark you miss your mark. It's all a matter of how "off" you were.

 

[ENGLISH!]

The mystery is that a contact on a center ball-intended hit can come with 3 different outcomes, right, center, or left. Right and left will often have much different results in deflection, curve, and position than what was intended with a center ball hit. Using a little bit of left english, on the other hand, can only result in center, a little left, and slightly more left. The two "bad" hits; center and slightly more left, wont change the outcome of the shot a whole lot because "slightly more left" will have similar deflection, curve, and cue ball action to "a little left" and center ball is not subject to deflection or curve (although position might not go as intended).

Favoring one side of the cue ball doesn't change the cueing misses in either direction, but it does change the expected results of the intended shot because the two possible poor hits: slightly more english than expected or center ball, will generally give results closer to your intention than having unintended english on a center ball shot. If someone has a poor enough stroke to hit outside english when you intended to use inside, TOI probably will be counter productive to their game.

I think its debateable. For most people, it is easier to visualize the action of outside english rather than inside english. Plus, most position shots that require getting from one end of the table to the other are easier and require less cue ball travel with outside.

:thumbup2: Good Post.

You must play real pool & not Video Game Pool.

 

[ENGLISH!]

No, not really. If you are only talking about deflection, I will agree with you, an off set hit is an off set hit, but when you take into account speed adjustments made for curve and throw, which cancel out deflection at low offsets and the right speed, hitting off center from the out set and adjusting for the effects of the off center hit is superior to trying to hit center ball and not accounting for those affects.

You could say that it is possible to adjust your speed so that the curve and throw of an off set hit cancels out deflection the same as an intended off center hit, except for the fact that inside english effectively throws the ball more than outside english at small offsets, therefore a universal adjustment for either wont work, and besides, nobody does that when hitting center ball anyways.

You also ignore the point about position. Allowing your position to be dictated by the random chance of whichever side of the cue ball you happen to hit might be adequate for many situations, but in situations where you have to have the cue ball going in the correct direction or you have to have the cue ball die off the rail rather than run, it is better to make sure you are cueing with the correct english or in a worst-hit scenario, no english.

Another good post.

In other words, one can have a plan for an intended offset hit, but one can NOT have a plan for an accidental unintended offset hit because one does not even know to what side the offset hit will be.

 

[Masayoshi]

Thanks for the detailed and sincere response, Masayoshi; I appreciate it - but I still disagree.


Adjusting for the effects of an off center hit only adjusts for that off center hit - favoring one side of the cue ball doesn't make the adjustment any more universal. A successful shot is like a straight shot with no squirve - any stroke error is like layering another complete shot on top of the original shot, with its own independent squirve issues undiminished by the adjustments you've made for the intended shot.

Actually, at certain speeds and ideally the shot speeds you should be trying to play at for most of your shots, the curve self corrects as long as the offset doesn't get extreme. There is a point where deflection just becomes too great for the curve (and throw) to overcome, but within a reasonable margin of error, more deflection from a larger offset just equals more curve (and throw) to cancel it out and with the right speed, it is pretty much the same shot until you go pas center ball.

Whatever direction you want the CB to go, with or without rail interaction, is affected in the same way by an inaccurate hit whether you're favoring one side or not. "Too much left spin" is the same as "unintended left spin" and "too little left spin" is the same as "unintended right spin" - both change the CB path in the same way.


Only the correct amount of English is "the correct English". More or less is not better just because it's in the same direction.

pj
chgo

I have to disagree with you on that for the simple fact that nobody plays shape on the premise that the only successful shot is exactly how you intended to hit it. We design our shots to have margin of error and a slight over or under spin is easier to account for than the opposite spin of what you intended or spin when you intended not to spin.

 

[peteypooldude]

This is a huge exaggeration. Even high-squirt house cues don’t produce half that much squirt.


CB goes left when you cue it right of center and vice verse – what’s the mystery?


Favoring one side of the CB, a little or a lot, doesn’t change the number of misses in both directions from cueing errors. A better stroke fixes that, not a gimmick.


If you want to believe this, I think it may be better not to think about it too much.

pj
chgo

Stomping in mud puddles already lol. Stan and I guess CJ now ......,Gimmick really