Paul Mottey's Beethoven Symphony #5
best,
brian kc
best,
brian kc
"Tribute" cues? Seriously?
- Thread starter Monstermash
- Start date
I'm familiar with the Meucci cue and stand by my comments that it is an incongruous design and one that from a design standpoint, shares nothing in common with the Steinway cue.
Oooooo.
Are you sure you want to bring up the name of Mottey in a discussion about copies?
If someone sends an image to Joel asking him to build something he will, materials and wood and veneer colors will be different. In those pictures I don't see exact copies. Here is what Joel wrote to me about this...
Hey Bud,
Most of my clients are wanted to do there design.I'm only making cues to feed my family.
Thanks for being there to stood up me.
Thanks bud,
Joel
Many will tell you exactly that...
Really? Gilbert, Coker, Fisher, Webb, Morgan, Hill, Cole, Stacey, Pierce, Omen and the list goes on and on of good cue makers who build SW style or tribute cues because people want it now and at a better price. SW are overpriced and cookie cutter cues, totally overrated and your options for customization suck.
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"They are usually made by some crappy maker in Asia" --Your ASS!
I love the SW design. They made it popular. Simply elegant in my opinion. That being said I think it's one thing to make a SW style cue. However when every cue from a cuemaker is in the SW style that's just not right. That is literally being a copycat. Not calling out anybody, no need to. I made a cue 15 years ago --- 5 curly maple points into a purple heart forearm, brown phenolic joint and buttcap. Several people said it looked like a SW. The rings weren't indexed style with veneers, they were simple solid surface rings. The buttsleeve was plain curly maple, no 1" ring above the buttcap. 5 points, not the usual 6 hi/low. I had to point out all of these differences, more than once.
Still haven't made a SW tribute. Who knows, maybe one day. But I won't be changing my style and start cranking them out by the hundreds.
Still haven't made a SW tribute. Who knows, maybe one day. But I won't be changing my style and start cranking them out by the hundreds.
Sure, so let get this straight.. You "stand up" for someone being indiscriminate with no respect for the craft nor others and THIER families.
AND, stealing food out of the mouth of someone else's family is ok if your trying to "feed YOUR family"?
The fact is there are sooo many ways to change things up on a look so deciding to copy a picture rather than change things up a bit is no only laziness but theft to boot...
Not sure how many times I have to repeat myself, the man makes what people ask him to. They are not exact copies and have his signature or logo on them, he makes subtle changes to the original design and sometimes combinations of many designs. Joel does also make original designs, basically the guy can make whatever you want. Calling someone a thief is a bit much when some of these so called design elements were taken from others.
Not sure how many times I have to repeat myself, the man makes what people ask him to. They are not exact copies and have his signature or logo on them, he makes subtle changes to the original design and sometimes combinations of many designs. Joel does also make original designs, basically the guy can make whatever you want. Calling someone a thief is a bit much when some of these so called design elements were taken from others.
Go ahead, tell me that at least 4 of the cues in this thread are not direct copies and that from the first and even second glances most anyone WOULD'NT think they were made by Tad or Carmeli...
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=379525
Who cares?
If Joel signs his cues we know who built it. Seriously why does this matter. You know as well as I do you are not collecting them or passing them off for something they are not, it is a non issue. I purchased a cue from someone in Iowa that was told they had a John Davis cue and it turned out to be a Davidas. The original seller, shady dealer in Chicago, was the one that mislead him. I sucked it up, let the seller know he got screwed and moved on with a partial refund. Lesson learned, life goes on.
Not sure how many times I have to repeat myself, the man makes what people ask him to. They are not exact copies and have his signature or logo on them, he makes subtle changes to the original design and sometimes combinations of many designs. Joel does also make original designs, basically the guy can make whatever you want. Calling someone a thief is a bit much when some of these so called design elements were taken from others.
If Joel signs his cues we know who built it. Seriously why does this matter. You know as well as I do you are not collecting them or passing them off for something they are not, it is a non issue. I purchased a cue from someone in Iowa that was told they had a John Davis cue and it turned out to be a Davidas. The original seller, shady dealer in Chicago, was the one that mislead him. I sucked it up, let the seller know he got screwed and moved on with a partial refund. Lesson learned, life goes on.
I keep seeing that so much crap is put on Joel davidas, is it because he is from the Philippine and not a U.S. cuemaker . I have seen a lot of U.S. cuemakers cues on here being called tribute cues. Brian Parks had a prewet that was stolen and then had Eddie Cohan make him one that damn near looked exactly like the prewet I mean it's a beautiful cue I would want one built like it by Eddie . How about hoppe style cues every cue maker makes a hoppe style cue are they copys too?
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Hi Jay;
Wasn't looking to drag Paul Mottey into the copy discussion, at all. Just pointing out another cue with a keyboard in its design.
And, for the record; the Paul & Ellen Drexler Steinway cue is a total badass and, imo, stands up as a unique design, regardless of whether or not there has been other cues that featured keyboards in their design.
If you are making a tribute cue to Steinway and Sons, who are, of course, world renowned piano makers, would you inlay wagon wheels or geese?
I love that Drexler cue, as well as the Mottey, and even the moochie looks nice (but nowhere near as deluxe as the others).
And thank you Dean for setting me straight on the Mottey being the Cotton Club, and not the Symphony #5. You're a lucky dog to have had one or more of them. :smile:
I had an Ariel C TAD tribute cue (see below) in which his shop flip-flopped the famous TAD ring colors so there wouldn't be any confusion and they even signed in the buttsleeve. I wasn't offended by this, especially given that Ariel took measures to make sure there wouldn't be confusion. With that said, I've had a number of people who saw it ask if it was a TAD, until they looked closer. :wink:
Reminds me of a couple of old Verl Horn cues that were boughtand sold as Bushkas - I guess those weren't signed?
best,
brian kc
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I know there must be a special place in hell for people like me. :grin-square:
best,
brian kc
best,
brian kc
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Whether you "flip flopped" the colors or not it STILL looks like a Tad.. Virtually NO ONE can differentiate colors to a design. It's the layout that draws your eye and you're Carmeli cue has TAD written all over it.
Hi Jay;
Wasn't looking to drag Paul Mottey into the copy discussion, at all. Just pointing out another cue with a keyboard in its design.
And, for the record; the Paul & Ellen Drexler Steinway cue is a total badass and, imo, stands up as a unique design, regardless of whether or not there has been other cues that featured keyboards in their design.
If you are making a tribute cue to Steinway and Sons, who are, of course, world renowned piano makers, would you inlay wagon wheels or geese?
I love that Drexler cue, as well as the Mottey, and even the moochie looks nice (but nowhere near as deluxe as the others).
And thank you Dean for setting me straight on the Mottey being the Cotton Club, and not the Symphony #5. You're a lucky dog to have had one or more of them. :smile:
I had an Ariel C TAD tribute cue (see below) in which his shop flip-flopped the famous TAD ring colors so there wouldn't be any confusion and they even signed in the buttsleeve. I wasn't offended by this, especially given that Ariel took measures to make sure there wouldn't be confusion. With that said, I've had a number of people who saw it ask if it was a TAD, until they looked closer. :wink:
Reminds me of a couple of old Verl Horn cues that were boughtand sold as Bushkas - I guess those weren't signed?
best,
brian kc
Which came first, the wall art or the cue? If the wall art than it's a cue that took direct inspiration from another medium which to me is OK.... Now if anyone wants to copy the CUE, well then that's a different story. I'd say to them "go find your own wall art"
The sad thing about this, if you understand what goes into making a cue like this, then you understand that the quality of these CAN NOT be very good. I think this is where the disconnect really is. If the people that think these tributes are OK, don't understand that it takes hundreds of hours to design, and build a cue of this magnitude. lots of test fitting, and double checking everything is perfect. Not to mention the actual build time to build a cue proper, that will stay straight, and the inlays will never pop.
I've seen a master cue builder work, and it is truly art. I've also seen a hack artist work, and it is not the same.