Darren Forfeits Beloit

RBC said:
2strong

I understand and respect your thoughts, but as one directly involved in the industry, I do have a few comments.

I don't think Darren compared being a Pro with a 9 to 5. That was someone else, and I think they were talking about the differences, not similarities.

As for "drinking on a work night", I don't there's anyone who regularly finishes as well as Darren does. Whatever he chooses to do, it's working for him.

Now, about the money, a backers supporting Pro Pool. The OP bought Darren in the calcutta. He didn't pay his entry, or send him to the tournament, or pay his hotel. He was a bystander who was trying to capitalize through a gamble. I wouldn't call buying a player in a calcutta an effort to support anything about pool. In actuality, it takes money from pool as opposed to putting it in. Gambling in pool, which is what a calcutta is, has nothing to do with the finances of the pool industry or pro pool. It's just like when a group of local players all want to go to the pool room and gamble with each other. Most don't want to spend any money at the room because that takes away from their stake. Often, they even expect table time to be free. All the money that changes hands is between them. None of it goes to the room owner. And, those very players will be the ones complaining when the pool room goes out of business.

Pool needs more people spending some of their hard earned dollars to enjoy a night out playing pool, and less players out there trying to make their car payment.

Royce
Click to expand...

Royce, with all due respect I know about guys like the OP. And they are good for Pool and our business! These are the guys who spend money in poolrooms on food and drinks and table time, without complaining for a minute about the prices. These are the guys who buy pool cues, cases and accessories and don't quibble over the price. These are the guys who lend a helping hand to players with a little money or backing when needed. They are the lifeblood of the current tournament scene! We need more guys like this, not less. I would be thanking BJ for being there if I were the room owner, not criticizing him for participating in the Calcutta.

Actually Royce, you are a lot like BJ, you have stepped up in a big way to support professional pool in this country and I thank you for that. Whether you realize it or not you and BJ have a symbiotic relationship here, both with a similar interest in our sport and the money to make a difference. You need him and others like him to be part of our world. I feel for BJ right now and hope he gets over the hurt he feels for his loss last weekend. $4,900 is not chump change in anyone's book! I really do want BJ to remain involved in Pool in any capacity.

I will only say this to BJ if he is still reading this thread. Welcome to the club buddy! I've suffered innumerable losses over the years and keep coming back for more, because there have also been rewards too. One for instance is my first L.A. Open over twenty years ago. I took a bath to the tune of $20,000 PLUS! I came back the next year anyway and got boycotted by the Men's Pro Tour for my efforts. How do you think I felt and I'm still here plugging away. :)
 
Last edited:
I didn't drink and i don't drink at tournaments while I'm still in the tournament..
I simply slept in because i was shattered and didn't hear the alarms.

I Make a comfortable living and started to invest my money also.
but obviously after paying taxes and expenses its not easy only a handful of players make a decent living.. most of the other players rely on stake horse and from tournaments alone its virtually impossible to make any profit at the end of the year.

Most jobs are tough and sometimes don't pay enough to live a decent life.. but i would say 80% of pool players trying to make it as pro are all broke and owe money everywhere. and that makes it harder for them guys to close out matches for sure.

Unfortunately pool a Very lonely sport most of the traveling alone staying alone and dealing with everything alone.. So mistakes will happen more in a sport like pool than most other sports.. If pool paid like golf, tennis,etc Something like this would never happen because big team of people around them at the events ..But also they wouldn't be playing 9hours of intense pool from 10am -1am all day then back on at 10am the following day.

I hope i never do it again but i can't guarantee it,But it will happen again many times just hope its not me.

But for sure i will make sure i got room calls, family calling me if possible and anything else to wake me up.

Sorry to everyone involved once again this be my final post on this matter ,and thanks for all support appreciate it.

Darren
 
Ken_4fun said:
The expenses would be taken off his taxes, as expenses. I make a little more than that, and I am telling you can live comfortably on that amount.

Ken
Click to expand...

Maybe in West Virginia... not where I live.
 
Last edited:
RBC said:
2strong
...
Now, about the money, a backers supporting Pro Pool. The OP bought Darren in the calcutta. He didn't pay his entry, or send him to the tournament, or pay his hotel. He was a bystander who was trying to capitalize through a gamble. I wouldn't call buying a player in a calcutta an effort to support anything about pool. In actuality, it takes money from pool as opposed to putting it in. Gambling in pool, which is what a calcutta is, has nothing to do with the finances of the pool industry or pro pool. It's just like when a group of local players all want to go to the pool room and gamble with each other. Most don't want to spend any money at the room because that takes away from their stake. Often, they even expect table time to be free. All the money that changes hands is between them. None of it goes to the room owner. And, those very players will be the ones complaining when the pool room goes out of business.

Pool needs more people spending some of their hard earned dollars to enjoy a night out playing pool, and less players out there trying to make their car payment.

Royce
Click to expand...

Wow...you couldn't be more wrong!

Why do you think Dave Coles spends over an hour prior to the tournament -shutting down the practice tables- in order conduct a calcutta? for the amusement of the gamblers?

No...the calcutta, whether it's at the Carom Room, White Diamonds, or Smoking Aces, is an integral part of the event. The calcutta heightens interest, creates excitement, and draws people into the room (or onto the stream) who otherwise would not have been there. Those people, in turn, support the PPV and buy the burgers, fries, and liquor. And it's exactly that money which allows Dave Coles to NOT CHARGE the players any green fees, or tournament fees. And it's also that money which allows Dave to add the $4,000 that went directly into the pockets of Shane, Sky, Corey, and Darren.

Sorry, but to say that a calcutta "takes money from pool as opposed to putting it in." Or to say "Gambling in pool,..., has nothing to do with the finances of the pool industry or pro pool" are statements that display a lack of understanding of economics.
 
It was me that made a comparison to a Carpenter in response to several previous posts comparing what Darren does to a more normal job. In particular it cost him 3k$ just to be there.

I have the greatest respect for anyone working for a living and in no way meant to deride any profession just to highlight the differences. Any way of making a living these days is tough.
 
BJTyler said:
Wow...you couldn't be more wrong!

Why do you think Dave Coles spends over an hour prior to the tournament -shutting down the practice tables- in order conduct a calcutta? for the amusement of the gamblers?

No...the calcutta, whether it's at the Carom Room, White Diamonds, or Smoking Aces, is an integral part of the event. The calcutta heightens interest, creates excitement, and draws people into the room (or onto the stream) who otherwise would not have been there. Those people, in turn, support the PPV and buy the burgers, fries, and liquor. And it's exactly that money which allows Dave Coles to NOT CHARGE the players any green fees, or tournament fees. And it's also that money which allows Dave to add the $4,000 that went directly into the pockets of Shane, Sky, Corey, and Darren.

Sorry, but to say that a calcutta "takes money from pool as opposed to putting it in." Or to say "Gambling in pool,..., has nothing to do with the finances of the pool industry or pro pool" are statements that display a lack of understanding of economics.
Click to expand...

I agree. We have a "no masters" tournament here in Des Moines that recently has gotten close to 100 players in it. The Calcutta gets very juicy on this and I guarantee that a lot of those people don't just buy a horse and leave. They spend money in the establishment and watch their horse or other players. While situations like this suck, calcuttas are a great part of this game imo.
 
Just as a clarification.

I did not say calcutta's are bad for pool.

I did not say calcutta's are bad for pool rooms.

I did not say that the room owner does not support pro pool.

I simply rebutted 2strong4u's statement that the OP was supporting Pro Pool.

I do believe that calcutta's are good for events like this one. They bring more spectators to the room, and if anyone has read any of my posts about Pro Pool, the one common thing in all of them is that we need more spectators. Pro Pool must have an audience before it can have big money and sponsorship.

I do believe the room owner support's Pro Pool. Yes, he could make a profit from this event, but the chances are not in his favor. Remember, he has to do better than he normally would on an average weekend of regular business to call the event profitable.

I do believe the room owner, who graciously chose not to take any of the calcutta money, hopes the calcutta will draw more people to watch. That's good for him and Pro Pool.

This isn't my first Rodeo. I've been in pool for 25 or 30 years, and the last 10 years making my living from it. I've been around and involved in many many calcutta's. I know how they work. I know the buyers, I know the "corporations" that get formed, and I've even seen many different strategies for calcutta's. I've had personal conversations with high level pro players specifically about calcutta's and asked how they felt about them.


My point is this.

Calcutta buyers, myself included, are gambling with hopes to make a profit.

If the pot grows to $15,000, or $50,000 or even $100,000, none of that must go to Pro Pool. None of that money has to go to the room. The winning buyer certainly can give the player a jelly roll, and he can spend some or all of his winnings at the room, or even on a new cue or shaft. But that doesn't mean that his reason for participating in the calcutta was to support pro pool.


Royce
 
RBC said:
Just as a clarification.
...
My point is this.

Calcutta buyers, myself included, are gambling with hopes to make a profit.

If the pot grows to $15,000, or $50,000 or even $100,000, none of that must go to Pro Pool. None of that money has to go to the room. The winning buyer certainly can give the player a jelly roll, and he can spend some or all of his winnings at the room, or even on a new cue or shaft. But that doesn't mean that his reason for participating in the calcutta was to support pro pool.


Royce
Click to expand...

Sorry...but when I buy one of your cues, the reason has nothing to do with my desire to support your business. I am merely trying to selfishly improve my game. Does that mean I'm not a supporter of your business? Or does that make me a less valued customer?

Whether my intentions for participating in the calcutta were to support the tournament and its players, or to make a profit, why is that relevant??

The fact is....I hung around the carom room 8-12 hours each day, spent between 50-100 bucks on food and liquor each day, backed another player into the smaller tournament, purchased two other players in that event's auction, and had previously purchased a 180 day pass from Big Truck so I wouldn't miss any of the action in this and other events.

Whether I intended to or not, I -and nearly every other calcutta investor- clearly supported this event and the pro players in the event.
 
Last edited:
Ken_4fun said:
Who in the hell would be dumb enough to live in New York or Jersey?

Ken
Click to expand...

Yeehawww!

redneckstyle_solutions_to_common_daily_problems_77.gif
 
RBC said:
2strong

I understand and respect your thoughts, but as one directly involved in the industry, I do have a few comments.

I don't think Darren compared being a Pro with a 9 to 5. That was someone else, and I think they were talking about the differences, not similarities.

As for "drinking on a work night", I don't there's anyone who regularly finishes as well as Darren does. Whatever he chooses to do, it's working for him.

Now, about the money, a backers supporting Pro Pool. The OP bought Darren in the calcutta. He didn't pay his entry, or send him to the tournament, or pay his hotel. He was a bystander who was trying to capitalize through a gamble. I wouldn't call buying a player in a calcutta an effort to support anything about pool. In actuality, it takes money from pool as opposed to putting it in. Gambling in pool, which is what a calcutta is, has nothing to do with the finances of the pool industry or pro pool. It's just like when a group of local players all want to go to the pool room and gamble with each other. Most don't want to spend any money at the room because that takes away from their stake. Often, they even expect table time to be free. All the money that changes hands is between them. None of it goes to the room owner. And, those very players will be the ones complaining when the pool room goes out of business.

Pool needs more people spending some of their hard earned dollars to enjoy a night out playing pool, and less players out there trying to make their car payment.

Royce
Click to expand...

Nothing is further from the truth.

Less action = less interest= less pool

The puritanical view of pool where gambling is frowned upon has failed. Gambling has always been the draw. Otherwise it's just guys poking balls with a stick.

Look at how few bother to watch pro pool at SBE and even Turning Stone. It's pathetic really. It's not because the game is boring or complicated. It's because people aren't invested in the outcome.
 
lfigueroa said:
Royce, I think your claim about the the calcutta money not supporting pool in any way is off base.

I don't think anyone can claim to know where calcutta money ends up. But it is money that is part of the pool/pool room economy. Who knows. The guy who wins calcutta dough might even end up buying a couple of OB shafts with their winnings.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
Gambling money has no home. It's there for the taking.

Lou did you buy mutual funds with Barron's money??? I'm sure most of it went right back into the game sonehow.

Without action pool isn't the same. Compare needing to runout to win 800 versus win a break and run patch. Come on let's be real.
 
2strong4u said:
Gambling money has no home. It's there for the taking.

Lou did you buy mutual funds with Barron's money??? I'm sure most of it went right back into the game sonehow.

Without action pool isn't the same. Compare needing to runout to win 800 versus win a break and run patch. Come on let's be real.
Click to expand...

Poker blew up because of all the pretend money, not because it is gambling. ;)
 
Island Drive said:
Darren, everything you said parallels the past 30 + years of my play experience (cept the US Open) with the only difference is the nut was $1,000 instead of the current $2K nut.
Click to expand...

Darren posted that after he missed his match, he was upset enough that he decided to fly home that day. Just curious was he able to change his flight with no cost cause when I look to fly out on a moments notice, it is usually an astronomical difference when compared to booking well in advance and could be why the nut was $2k.
 
BJTyler said:
Wow...you couldn't be more wrong!

Why do you think Dave Coles spends over an hour prior to the tournament -shutting down the practice tables- in order conduct a calcutta? for the amusement of the gamblers?

No...the calcutta, whether it's at the Carom Room, White Diamonds, or Smoking Aces, is an integral part of the event. The calcutta heightens interest, creates excitement, and draws people into the room (or onto the stream) who otherwise would not have been there. Those people, in turn, support the PPV and buy the burgers, fries, and liquor. And it's exactly that money which allows Dave Coles to NOT CHARGE the players any green fees, or tournament fees. And it's also that money which allows Dave to add the $4,000 that went directly into the pockets of Shane, Sky, Corey, and Darren.

Sorry, but to say that a calcutta "takes money from pool as opposed to putting it in." Or to say "Gambling in pool,..., has nothing to do with the finances of the pool industry or pro pool" are statements that display a lack of understanding of economics.
Click to expand...

The more money the more interest and when the guy who got burned by the no show says he's not doing it anymore means less money to the Calcutta and to the room lose a couple of these now you talking less added money
Hell if I'm running that venue and one of my high rollers horse misses the gate I'm comping his tab because I want him back next yr
It's not rocket science

1
 
Last edited:
one stroke said:
The more money the more interest and when the guy who got burned by the no show says he's not doing it anymore means less money to the Calcutta and to the room lose a couple of these now you talking less added money
Hell if I'm running that venue and one of my high rollers horse misses the gate I'm comping his tap because I want him back next yr
It's not rocket science

1
Click to expand...

What are you going to do to his tap?

ykoAOeX.gif
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top