I have a question that is begging to be answered?

[SJDinPHX]

What should I do then, lay around the house and get old and grumpy.....how's that plan working out for you?

No..By all means, just continue braging, whining, and complaining !..While I continue doing the 'old grumpy thing'.........>>>

 

[realkingcobra]

No..By all means, just continue braging, whining, and complaining !..While I continue doing the 'old grumpy thing'.........>>>

View attachment 383587

You know that old saying don't you, "what can't get up, can't get out"....LOL

 

[poolhustler]

Old Gold Crown's can be fixed up pretty nice !!!

 

[cubswin]

I don't own a table, so have no reason to learn all about them.

 

[Type79]

Gold Crown I

Why are there so many AZ members that are such experts on cues, tips, chalk....sparing no expense when it comes to going after and getting that THING of value to you, sometimes even waiting years and years to get that cue you want. Talking about ever use tip to hit the market, even to the point of nit picking it to death, right along with the newest crazy chalk....BUT, when it comes to your pool table (s) most of you, and I'm not saying all of you, BUT most of you don't give a shit about checking out the person's work, and if they're any good at their job....yet you'll hire them unchecked? And further more, a lot of you own pool tables I wouldn't even consider working on as a lot of them are just not worth the investment. ...yet, there it is, right there....surrounded by your $$$$$$$$'$ of dollars worth of of cues?....I mean, not only do a lot of you not own a Diamond pool table, you don't even own a Gold Crown....why is the most important part of this game the deciding factor as to where you cheap out with the money?

I agree. It is, and has been, a buyer's market for top of the line used tables for a very long time. There are other fine tables, but when it comes to value, I can't imagine why a player would buy anything other than a used Gold Crown. They are so cheap, it is actually sad.

Someone mentioned the Anniversary and Centennial but those are in another price category.

Years ago, actually in 1995, just a few years after I bought my house, I bought a table. There was only ever one table ever in my mind and that was a Gold Crown. I was lucky that the table I found at the time turned out to be a GCI, I say lucky because in 1995 I didn't really know the differences in the various GC models.

Being still slightly naive and before the internet was in full swing, I did my best to get it setup properly which at the time meant contacting a Brunswick dealer.

I had it covered with Simonis and the total for the purchase of the table, setup including the Simonis cloth, a set of Aramith balls, and 4 Dufferin house cues for the guests was ~$2,500.

That's my story.

 

[Dockter]

My Buddy has one of those Turds in his basement. A nice enuff table, but the pockets are gopher holes that will attract a ball like the gravity from a Black Hole.

Not very enjoyable playing on it because it just doesn't test your skill like even a bar table can. Yes, the pockets are worse than a bar box.

Yeah, you can miss by a diamond and it still seems to pull to the pocket lol. Honestly I just got it off craigslist a couple weeks ago for 30 dollars and I knew it wouldn't be a great table. I just got it to practice my stroke and because my girlfriend was tired of me going to the bar a couple hours a night just to shoot. Someday I'll have a nice table but that day is a ways off.

 

[TATE]

but I told him not to say a word to anyone that I was there until AFTER I had left....so much for being unemployed Tate!

I think you have me confused with someone else - I never said you were unemployed and would not wish that upon you.

 

[realkingcobra]

Old Gold Crown's can be fixed up pretty nice !!!

They certainly can, and they can be made to play with the best playing tables on the planet as well.

 

[realkingcobra]

I agree. It is, and has been, a buyer's market for top of the line used tables for a very long time. There are other fine tables, but when it comes to value, I can't imagine why a player would buy anything other than a used Gold Crown. They are so cheap, it is actually sad.

Someone mentioned the Anniversary and Centennial but those are in another price category.

Years ago, actually in 1995, just a few years after I bought my house, I bought a table. There was only ever one table ever in my mind and that was a Gold Crown. I was lucky that the table I found at the time turned out to be a GCI, I say lucky because in 1995 I didn't really know the differences in the various GC models.

Being still slightly naive and before the internet was in full swing, I did my best to get it setup properly which at the time meant contacting a Brunswick dealer.

I had it covered with Simonis and the total for the purchase of the table, setup including the Simonis cloth, a set of Aramith balls, and 4 Dufferin house cues for the guests was ~$2,500.

That's my story.

Unless you had it refinished at some point in time, that's a GC2....GC1'S were never offered with a stained finish, that wasn't offered until the GC2s' were available, in fact the stained finish is the only thing that separates the difference between the 2 models. All the changes to a GC2 came out on the GC1 first...except the stained look.

 

[realkingcobra]

I think you have me confused with someone else - I never said you were unemployed and would not wish that upon you.

I have to apologize to you Tate, I mentioned to respond to Allen Browns comment about me having to get a job pushing shopping baskets at Walmart because I was going to lose all my business by being picky about the tables I choose to work on.....so, I'm sorry:embarrassed2:

 

[realkingcobra]

So let me get this straight......you are running low on work and need to make some money, but you refuse to work on tables that aren't high end and up to your standards.

Oh and by they way....nice job on coming on the largest Billiard site in the world and talking down to some of your future customers because they don't have the money to buy a higher quality table. That's an excellent business plan if you ask me. You'll be pushing carts at Wal-Mart soon.

Sounds like you own one of them piece of shit pool tables I'm talking about, and your feelings got hurt because somewhere in the back of your mind you were thinking about sending me a PM asking me to fix it up to play like a Diamond....LMFAO

 

[realkingcobra]

I also want to add that Matt was one of the best customers I've ever had the privilege of working with, he was right there to help sand, move parts around, lift slate. Anything he could do to help, he was right there, so I feel he was a customer when I showed up, and a good friend when I left....thank you for all your help and support Matt, it was appreciated:thumbup:

 

[shadowmoss]

I understand what your saying in this thread. That is why I have a 100 year old Brunswick Rochester 5x10 Set up by our own New England HOF and great Pool table mech. Hurbie Lehman.

 

[JC]

I mean, not only do a lot of you not own a Diamond pool table, you don't even own a Gold Crown....why is the most important part of this game the deciding factor as to where you cheap out with the money?

I gave away the best gold crown within 100 miles to get a diamond.

My cues are nothing special.

JC

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

Pool Tables

First I would like to say I really like Diamond Pool tables because they are easier to play than other tables. This is why so many people like them. Faster table less stroke required, less power = better accuracy. Are they better tables? I would say they are different and very well made but better than a Gold Crown? Not really just different.

My friend bought a used GC III installed for 1,500.00. It plays very well but could use new rails. You quoted me 1,500.00 to replace the rails (I assume with a re-felt). I had another table mechanic who installed this table quote 850.00 to replace the rails and re-felt the table. He been doing tables probably as long as you if not longer. Is he as good as you? Probably not since I have been told your the best table mechanic in the country but he is still very good.

If you replaced the rails and re-felted the table versus the other table mechanic would I be able to tell the difference? Probably not but my check book would.

If I had a Brunswick Centennial that needed to be completely restored and I had unlimited funds would I pick you over the other table mechanic? Damn straight I would want you.

I play with a 4 point no veneer cue that was hand made taking over 2 1/2 years to make that I paid 950.00 for it. This cue maker seasons the wood using no chemicals at all turning the butt shafts once every few months. It was made to my exact specifications and plays as good as any cue that I have owned (I have owned a Bender, Lambros, Scruggs, Judd, Hunter Classic and more that I don't remember right now).

Lastly to answer your basic question. Why buy a Diamond pool table when there are only a hand full in the area I live? I would play great on a fast Diamond table but will be in trouble playing on old Valley tables here locally. If I was a pro playing on Diamond tables all of the time I certainly would own a Diamond table but I'm not a pro. The table I play on is an Olhausen (around 15 years old) 46 x 92 that was factory made with 1" wider rails than the standard Olhausen tables. I have had several players say it plays as good as a Gold Crown probably close to a Gold Crown but not quite there but its good enough for me.

By the way I make a very good living and could afford a Mercedes (my wife owns a 2003 320 SLK with 61k) but I drive a 2013 Subaru Legacy 3.6R which is good enough for me.

 

[Steve Dickey]

Glen,
I hope all is going well with you. Sounds like Matts wait was worth the wait!!
I'll take a swing at your question as I, as I suspect many others, have headed down the same path when it comes to a pool table. The first few years of learning the game, most simply don't have the skills to know a great playing table from a 'polished turd". It is generally during this phase that, given the space and income, one begins to think about purchasing a table. The primary factor, other than size, is how it looks. When a furniture table with acceptable aesthetics can be found, and at one quarter the cost of a Diamond or Gold Crown, the decision is simple.
It's not till one's skills increase beyond certain level, if they ever do, that the realization the table plays poorly begins to set in. Now the research phase begins. What does it take to make a table play well? Sites like this, and to a large extent your contributions, go a long way in sorting out all the possible options in an attempt to get a table that plays well.
As far as not checking out the mechanics ahead of time or recognizing crappy work, without extensive research, what are we to check out when looking at the fully assembled table? We talked a bit about the similarities in our professions, the ability to cover over or hide much of what really matters. A layman only sees a large bed of fresh new cloth. Job looks great. Does the Owner know what cushions should be placed on his table? Weather they are even available for his particular table any more. What the sub-rail thickness, angles, ect., should be used for that profile? Weather or not they are stapled out? Are they adequately anchored to the slate? With enough wiggle room to get the rails bodily into the correct position? Did the mechanic seal the underside of the rails? Are the sub-rails extended with the proper miters and down angles? Is the slate anchored to the frame or into stripped out holes in the frame? Is the slate crowned? Are the slates super glued or might a seam pop soon? Unless you have done the research, you will have no idea as to why the table plays poorly, or what the mechanic did or did not do right.
A quick comment about working on lesser tables. The money, materials and time required to get some tables to play correctly would not be worth it to most. If you don't have a frame that is beefy enough to support the slate and rails are you going to start by building a new frame? Pointless. Why not improve on it a little bit? Because it still does not play well and your name is on the final product.
Lastly, when it comes to cues, anybody can judge if the points are the same length or sharp, number of inlays, materials, if it is warped. Im many respects does not require special knowledge.

Steve

 

[realkingcobra]

Glen,
I hope all is going well with you. Sounds like Matts wait was worth the wait!!
I'll take a swing at your question as I, as I suspect many others, have headed down the same path when it comes to a pool table. The first few years of learning the game, most simply don't have the skills to know a great playing table from a 'polished turd". It is generally during this phase that, given the space and income, one begins to think about purchasing a table. The primary factor, other than size, is how it looks. When a furniture table with acceptable aesthetics can be found, and at one quarter the cost of a Diamond or Gold Crown, the decision is simple.
It's not till one's skills increase beyond certain level, if they ever do, that the realization the table plays poorly begins to set in. Now the research phase begins. What does it take to make a table play well? Sites like this, and to a large extent your contributions, go a long way in sorting out all the possible options in an attempt to get a table that plays well.
As far as not checking out the mechanics ahead of time or recognizing crappy work, without extensive research, what are we to check out when looking at the fully assembled table? We talked a bit about the similarities in our professions, the ability to cover over or hide much of what really matters. A layman only sees a large bed of fresh new cloth. Job looks great. Does the Owner know what cushions should be placed on his table? Weather they are even available for his particular table any more. What the sub-rail thickness, angles, ect., should be used for that profile? Weather or not they are stapled out? Are they adequately anchored to the slate? With enough wiggle room to get the rails bodily into the correct position? Did the mechanic seal the underside of the rails? Are the sub-rails extended with the proper miters and down angles? Is the slate anchored to the frame or into stripped out holes in the frame? Is the slate crowned? Are the slates super glued or might a seam pop soon? Unless you have done the research, you will have no idea as to why the table plays poorly, or what the mechanic did or did not do right.
A quick comment about working on lesser tables. The money, materials and time required to get some tables to play correctly would not be worth it to most. If you don't have a frame that is beefy enough to support the slate and rails are you going to start by building a new frame? Pointless. Why not improve on it a little bit? Because it still does not play well and your name is on the final product.
Lastly, when it comes to cues, anybody can judge if the points are the same length or sharp, number of inlays, materials, if it is warped. Im many respects does not require special knowledge.

Steve

I agree with you 100%, but I still find it hard to believe that some table owners can be such experts in some areas, yet fall flat on their face in other areas. With pool tables being such a huge part of this game, they just seem to be the most over looked as well.

 

[realkingcobra]

First I would like to say I really like Diamond Pool tables because they are easier to play than other tables. This is why so many people like them. Faster table less stroke required, less power = better accuracy. Are they better tables? I would say they are different and very well made but better than a Gold Crown? Not really just different.

My friend bought a used GC III installed for 1,500.00. It plays very well but could use new rails. You quoted me 1,500.00 to replace the rails (I assume with a re-felt). I had another table mechanic who installed this table quote 850.00 to replace the rails and re-felt the table. He been doing tables probably as long as you if not longer. Is he as good as you? Probably not since I have been told your the best table mechanic in the country but he is still very good.

If you replaced the rails and re-felted the table versus the other table mechanic would I be able to tell the difference? Probably not but my check book would.

If I had a Brunswick Centennial that needed to be completely restored and I had unlimited funds would I pick you over the other table mechanic? Damn straight I would want you.

I play with a 4 point no veneer cue that was hand made taking over 2 1/2 years to make that I paid 950.00 for it. This cue maker seasons the wood using no chemicals at all turning the butt shafts once every few months. It was made to my exact specifications and plays as good as any cue that I have owned (I have owned a Bender, Lambros, Scruggs, Judd, Hunter Classic and more that I don't remember right now).

Lastly to answer your basic question. Why buy a Diamond pool table when there are only a hand full in the area I live? I would play great on a fast Diamond table but will be in trouble playing on old Valley tables here locally. If I was a pro playing on Diamond tables all of the time I certainly would own a Diamond table but I'm not a pro. The table I play on is an Olhausen (around 15 years old) 46 x 92 that was factory made with 1" wider rails than the standard Olhausen tables. I have had several players say it plays as good as a Gold Crown probably close to a Gold Crown but not quite there but its good enough for me.

By the way I make a very good living and could afford a Mercedes (my wife owns a 2003 320 SLK with 61k) but I drive a 2013 Subaru Legacy 3.6R which is good enough for me.

Yes, a person can tell the difference between tables as far as how they play, has nothing to do with the price.

 

[peppersauce]

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Do you happen to have any close-up pics of those pocket castings mounted flush and the modification for the GC IV pockets, Glen? I've always thought there ought to be a way to do that but I've never seen it actually done. Beautiful work, btw.

 

[3kushn]

I agree with you 100%, but I still find it hard to believe that some table owners can be such experts in some areas, yet fall flat on their face in other areas. With pool tables being such a huge part of this game, they just seem to be the most over looked as well.

It starts with the rooms. Most rooms haven't a clue or they simply don't care. To your point they probably don't have to care and its easier not to. Their income is in cues,, food and drink, not table maintenance. Their customers never have a chance to see what it's like to play on a well set up table and therefore there's little demand.

Jump into the carom table business. It'll drive you crazy. We all know everything there is to know.:wink:

My table is the best playing table on the planet, set up by Yura who I have drive 800 miles to my house. Know one else is allowed to touch my table. Except me of course.