Why has no one beat Mosconi's high run?

[SJDinPHX]

Yes there have been unconfirmed runs that may have beat him... Not my question.

Why in todays state of the game, when competition is tougher than ever... Why do we not have umpteen players capable of running 500+ balls?.....Was he really that good? Table conditions? Nobody plays straight pool anymore? Etc.

Please share your thoughts. (I am using this question as a survey in my sociology class, so your answeres are greatly appreciated)

There are several very simple explanations for this being the case, and you answered a few of them yourself...Most importantly, straight pool is probably the least played discipline now, and has been for quite some time...And there are 'umpteen' players who could have cracked it years ago !...14.1, is, and has been dying for over 50 yrs.

The the few quality players that still enjoy the game (Schmidt, Pennigar,etc.) practice, and play it on fairly tight 4.5 X 9's, rather than the very forgiving 4 X 8, that Mosconi set his 526 record on... Also 8 ft. tables are becoming a rarity anymore !

Lastly, while it was still an impressive run, I would have to say, that any run of over 350-375 balls, would be MUCH more difficult on todays equipment, than a run of 526 on a sloppy 4 X 8.. Especially in an action, or tournament situation, as opposed to a an exhibition, like Willie's was !

SJD

 

[PoolBoy1]

Name one player who gets paid to go around the country playing exhibition straight-pool on 8 foot tables with 5" corners all year .

Believe it or not most folks are sick of 9 Ball. Breaking w/special cue and making 3 balls and running 6 in most cases is boring! Only thing going to save the pieces of pool left is streaming. I predict it will not help rooms but sales will go up for home use. They will not be Diamond 9' tables with tight pockets. They will be 7+8 footers with wide mouths. Just like Golf , longer courses, lots of rough, traps = slow play which killed the local game.

 

[nineballsafety8]

Who says there are no 8 footers with buckets?

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[nineballsafety8]

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[KRJ]

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That's the second nicest gap I've seen today

 

[leto1776]

There are several very simple explanations for this being the case, and you answered a few of them yourself...Most importantly, straight pool is probably the least played discipline now, and has been for quite some time...And there are 'umpteen' players who could have cracked it years ago !...14.1, is, and has been dying for over 50 yrs.

The the few quality players that still enjoy the game (Schmidt, Pennigar,etc.) practice, and play it on fairly tight 4.5 X 9's, rather than the very forgiving 4 X 8, that Mosconi set his 526 record on... Also 8 ft. tables are becoming a rarity anymore !

Lastly, while it was still an impressive run, I would have to say, that any run of over 350-375 balls, would be MUCH more difficult on todays equipment, than a run of 526 on a sloppy 4 X 8.. Especially in an action, or tournament situation, as opposed to a an exhibition, like Willie's was !

SJD

I know everyone on here loves to sing the praises of Diamond, but just because they don't make 8' tables,mthat's hardly makes 8' tables rare. Texas is absolutely full of them, and many homes and social clubs have them.

Also, while tight pockets are in vogue nowadays (although they were hardly uncommon back then), so is super fast cloth, which helps the stack break apart more easily; so while one aspect of the game has gotten more difficult, another has gotten easier.

 

[leto1776]

This is what WIKI says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Mosconi

"Mosconi set the world record by running 526 consecutive balls without a miss during a straight pool exhibition in Springfield, Ohio on March 19–20, 1954. To this day the record has not been toppled and many speculate it may never be bested. A handwritten and notarized affidavit[12] with the signatures of more than 35 eyewitnesses exists as proof of this feat.

The record was set on a 4 × 8 foot Brunswick table with 5 1/4 inch corner pockets at the East High Billiard Club. Today's standard for tables may be considered more difficult to play on than this exhibition table in the sense that longer shots are required (today's standard tables are 9 x 4 1/2 ft) with 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 inch pockets, but today's tables may be considered easier to play on in the sense that there is more room for the balls to spread, creating unfettered shots. Mosconi competed successfully on 4 1/2 × 9 and 5 x 10 ft tables. The 526-ball record just happened to be on a 4 × 8 ft table, a size seldom used in professional play, but used for the billiard club exhibition that day. In fact, the room owner expected the exhibition to take place on the room's 9 foot table. That table was not a Brunswick, so Willie was required to play on one of the Brunswick 8 foot tables."

Now we need to point out a few other things:
1) Willie was born in 1913 and the run was in 1954...(40+ years old)
2) Willie started playing when he was a kid...played Ralph Greanleaf in exhibition when 6 years old
3) Predominately played 14.1 throughout his career

So, Willie was playing predominately 14.1 as a PROFESSION for 30 years and his HIGHEST run was 526 and he was considered the BEST pool player EVER by MANY.

What is the odds of a player today less than 40 years old who plays 14.1 rarely beating that record? Everybody will say the table was EASY! Well if it was so EASY, then why didn't Willie run 900?

I think it may be one of those "fluke" days that may NEVER be repeated...but, who knows?

Aloha.

Wiki is not always the most credible source of info, due to self and anonymous editing. That article mentioned the room had 9' and 8' tables. I believe more credible sources in the past have stated that the room had older 10' tables, not 9ft.

 

[deanoc]

My guess is because nobody plays nearly as good as willie

 

[rrich1]

I know everyone on here loves to sing the praises of Diamond, but just because they don't make 8' tables,mthat's hardly makes 8' tables rare. Texas is absolutely full of them, and many homes and social clubs have them.

Also, while tight pockets are in vogue nowadays (although they were hardly uncommon back then), so is super fast cloth, which helps the stack break apart more easily; so while one aspect of the game has gotten more difficult, another has gotten easier.

3 pool rooms here in town are nothing but 8ft diamonds

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[one stroke]

On an 8 foot table I don't think it would take anywhere near two years to do it if 250K was the payoff.

Can't imagine the presure of 250k on the line those big pockets would be shrinking to golf ball size once someone got anywhere near that number




1

 

[book collector]

The only irrefuteable way , would be to do it on a 4x8 .
When does anybody play straight pool on a 4x8?
The biggest obstacle is incentive , if someone put a million dollar prize to beat it , it's likely someone would.
It doesn't look like those things are going to happen any time soon so ............

 

[iusedtoberich]

My guess is because nobody plays nearly as good as willie

Yep. This is the best answer.

 

[Straightpool_99]

I'm so sick and tired of this shit....Face it, Mosconi was a 14.1 MONSTER. I hate the people who just keep grinding him down, pulling him down into the dirt. "Mosconi was nowhere near as good as the players today" and similar crap. At least they don't go after Greenleaf the same way, I guess nobody cares about him. Heck, in todays world nobody cares about stuff that happened 5 minutes ago. It's a wonder the psychiatrists can even diagnose someone with ADD...how can they possibly tell?

The pocket size on the record table is increasing so rapidly that I fear they are reaching critical mass soon and will consume us all! The first time I heard about it they were 4 and 3/4 inches, now they are 5 1/2....

8 foot tables are everywhere, and Willies record still stands. Nobody has beaten it, because nobody can. Some may be able in theory, but in practice they have not been able to pull it off. This is not horseshoes or handgrenades, close doesn't count. All the whining primadonnas who try to belittle the record make me SICK:

 

[Eurotroll]

Wouldn't it take 3 to 6 months to even find a 8 foot table?

But, you're right, it would probably be done in less than a year....

That's fun because in my city all tables are 8ft :grin:

 

[midnightpulp]

I'm so sick and tired of this shit....Face it, Mosconi was a 14.1 MONSTER. I hate the people who just keep grinding him down, pulling him down into the dirt. "Mosconi was nowhere near as good as the players today" and similar crap. At least they don't go after Greenleaf the same way, I guess nobody cares about him. Heck, in todays world nobody cares about stuff that happened 5 minutes ago. It's a wonder the psychiatrists can even diagnose someone with ADD...how can they possibly tell?

The pocket size on the record table is increasing so rapidly that I fear they are reaching critical mass soon and will consume us all! The first time I heard about it they were 4 and 3/4 inches, now they are 5 1/2....

Agreed. Willie probably wouldn't even give a shit about the record anyhow. I've heard stories of him telling friends that he's run much more in practice, which would be on a tougher table of course.

And Greenleaf is one the top 5 most naturally gifted cueists ever. By any normal standards, he was too drunk/hungover to make a ball, yet he dominated his era and even beat a young Irving Crane back-to-back, who was part of the next era of players. Then, decidedly past his prime, and probably near death from booze related sicknesses, he finished 3rd in the World 3 cushion championship in 1942.

Note: Greenleaf's era played on 5' x 10' tables. Bet that cloth was real good, too.

 

[RiverCity]

Real answer? No one knows his aiming system.......... :thumbup:

 

[Zphix]

Real answer? No one knows his aiming system.......... :thumbup:

I seem to recall reading an article on Mosconi, pretty he sure he called his aiming system "JDM" or "just don't miss?"

 

[Keith Jawahir]

Had to dig through his FB to find it, but Shane recently ran 305 at Steinway. That should be added to the list of high runs linked elsewhere in the thread.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Real answer? No one knows his aiming system.......... :thumbup:

This is the AZB form of Godwin's Law in action.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... "Mosconi was nowhere near as good as the players today" and similar crap. ... Nobody has beaten it, because nobody can. ...

I think it is pointless to try to compare players from very different eras. I've talked to players who were around during Mosconi's peak and the consensus seems to be that he was about 30% better than anyone else. That is, in a long 14.1 match, he could be expected to beat the competition by, say, 1000-700.

On the other hand, Mosconi gave exhibitions multiple times per day when he was touring, always playing 14.1. How many exhibitions these days include a 14.1 match? And the record is for an announced exhibition. Higher records exist for practice runs, including one by Mosconi in the 600s.