titanium

Perhaps

Perhaps the o.p. Was assuming that he should not use a torch because he had heard that titanium will burn.
While it is true that titanium will burn, it is only the fine chips. Strings or dust from machining or filing that will ignite.
There is no reason that you can’t heat up a titanium pin with an open flame torch to the relatively low temperature that it takes to soften the adhesive that holds in the pin on a cue.

I am not a cue maker but, i have been in the machining trade for well over 30 years & have been working with titanium for many of those years during my career.

I really do not want to be involved in the arguments that are taking place in this thread.
I am just trying to help out the o.p.

Slim
 
SLIM said:
I am not a cue maker but, i have been in the machining trade for well over 30 years & have been working with titanium for many of those years during my career.

I really do not want to be involved in the arguments that are taking place in this thread.
I am just trying to help out the o.p.

Slim
Click to expand...
The rules of this sub-forum allow guys like you and me to chime in here and there.

:thumbup:
 
Dave38 said:
Welding equipment is MADE for welding...battery chargers are NOT. To offer advice like this is reckless endangerment...hopefully no one will even think of trying it. Make a video of you doing it to show how safe it is.......
Modern chargers have short circuit protection, but the split second that it'll possibly send current (up to 30 amps) if that fails to stop it fast enough.....poof
Click to expand...

Dave,

Just a point of clarification:

I checked my charger and it has a 150 amp boost cycle. The last time I heated a pin with it was about 4 years ago and I used 12 gauge copper solid wire. I still have some in my tool box.

I initially remarked that is was only a 60 amp boost but when I check it today I was mistaken. It has 60 and 150 amp boost settings to choose. I always used 150 amps for a short duration.

At 150 amps, the heat to the pin ramps up fast and then I shut the unit off. The five minute between power interval in my procedure was to let the machine rest. As I recall the pin came loose after the second shot of power on the 2 or 3 times i used this method.

You are correct using a very lightweight modern charger would not be a good idea. I agree as I know how they are built. This unit I have is one step under the Wheel Charger. The unit I have is also about 25 lbs and has the old school heavy duty transformer.

Rick






 
Last edited:
Mr. Wilson said:
As long as the tone is kept civil.

Thomas, you're pushing hard.
Click to expand...

Mr. Wilson,

Although I expect you will refuse to acknowledge or respond to this request - as you have always done in the past - I still feel compelled to ask you to educate me to the specific manner in which my statements have violated the rules here. I sincerely believe, given the circumstances AND in light of the comments made by others, that I've been rather mild in what I've written in this thread.

Your veiled (and not so veiled) threats are noted and acknowledged, but without some modicum of guidance it is virtually impossible to know what specific thing(s) you actually find objectionable. If you could somehow find it in your heart to point out - publicly here , or privately in a PM - where you feel I've erred it would be truly helpful, and would go a long way toward guiding the tone of my future comments. I can't imagine anyone thinking such a request is unreasonable.

As I said above, I fully expect you to ignore this request - as seems to be your way - but I would like to say that it is truly 100% sincere, and I would be remiss if I didn't at least ask.

TW

 
Thomas Wayne said:


This contradicts your premise of drilling the pin out completely. Yes, while you are using smaller diameters initially you can keep the coolant - water OR oil based - away from the wood. But when you get so close that there are only the actual metal threads left what will you do then?

You post anonymously - and are "new" here - so you can feed us any bullsh*t you want, but I've been doing this for 30+ years and I've pulled out my share of joint bolts. Some of the other guys chiming in may have pulled out more pins than I've ever even installed . My sense is that you've never actually pulled a joint pin out of a cue by simply by drilling it out [as you are proposing]. Could be wrong, but that's my take at this point.

TW
Click to expand...
Perhaps the pins you have tried removing in the past we not epoxied with DP-420 and using the same clearance. I can assure you my method works very well. If an epoxy with less strength is used I can see how the threads would break away from the wood. In this case I would use induction heat to remove the pin, but would have concern with the front end components coming loose and making a buzz in the future
 
How about starting with just the quoted post above?

Han you cite the rule you feel allows you to speak to members in this manner?

I can be very specific in which rules you broke. I'm certain you are familiar with them.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
How about starting with just the quoted post above?

Han you cite the rule you feel allows you to speak to members in this manner?

I can be very specific in which rules you broke. I'm certain you are familiar with them.
Click to expand...

I guess I would like you to be specific, if you don't mind.

Since I know from experience that you won't entertain any debate after you've made a statement I'll offer my own analysis [of the offending quote] first:

1) I point out a hard-to-forsee but very real obstacle in attempting to drill out a threaded member and still leave a pristine threaded hole when finished. I can't imagine making that point violates any rule.

2) I then ask the poster ("Cocoa") how he will deal with that issue. Again, how could that be a violation?

3) I point out that the poster ("Cocoa") is anonymous [presumably - maybe momma called him "Cocoa", but we still lack a last name] so we have no way to judge the veracity of anything he says, OR his experience in the craft. Surely it's not a violation to point out such an obvious truth... is it?

4) I use the minced oath "bullsh*t" to abbreviate what he could be offering, but in NO way do I say (or even suggest) that he IS offering that. I see others use similar minced oaths without fear of reprisal, but I also know that I am a bit of a special target for you, so if using that characterization is a violation I will be more than happy to never, ever do it again.

5) I point out that I am very experienced in the subject at hand, and that others [who also disagree with "Cocoa"] are likely to be even more experienced than I am. These are simple facts; I would be quite interested to know if pointing them out is a violation of forum rules.

6) Finally, I offer my sense that he ("Cocoa") may not be very experienced in removing joint pins - obviously this is only an opinion, which is why I refer to it as "my sense" - AND I allow that I may be mistaken in my assessment [of his knowledge, skill, or and/or experience.] Violation?

Your turn, Mr. Wilson - you offered to be "very specific", and I guess I would like to take you up on that offer.

If you feel my above summary is in any way inaccurate I would be interested in knowing how that is so. If you feel that I am wrong about which statements are (or are not) violations of the rules I would be very interested in knowing how that is so as well.

I am both willing and able to play by ANY rules you like. But I would think it's fair that we be playing on a level field, where ALL are bound by the same rules. When one member finds himself chastised - or worse yet, disciplined - without any notice of how or why that action has been taken it creates an atmosphere of inequity and "good old boys club".

When one member can freely violate any forum rule he wants because he's "buddies with the boss", while another member seems to have a big target on his forehead, that forum will inescapably gain a reputation for inequitable treatment of it's general membership. As a rational, fair minded person I would think you don't want such a reputation for this forum or for yourself - fairly earned or otherwise.

TW

 
Last edited:
Cocoa said:
Perhaps the pins you have tried removing in the past we not epoxied with DP-420 and using the same clearance. I can assure you my method works very well. If an epoxy with less strength is used I can see how the threads would break away from the wood. In this case I would use induction heat to remove the pin, but would have concern with the front end components coming loose and making a buzz in the future
Click to expand...

Silly question ... How would you know before you start your removal which method you'd use? Wouldn't TW's method mitigate any guess work or making of any impossible choice of "I'll use X method because I know exactly what epoxy some other cue maker used."
 
Cornerman said:
Silly question ... How would you know before you start your removal which method you'd use? Wouldn't TW's method mitigate any guess work or making of any impossible choice of "I'll use X method because I know exactly what epoxy some other cue maker used."
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

As usual TW is right.

How about we try something new? like a compliment and gratitude.

Thanks TW, we appreciate you sharing your experience. Hopefully one day this forum will change its attitude and more reputable makers such as your self will come back and post here again.
 
SOOOO.....Ricky gets banned for a week, then once back, the first things he posts is advice involving a 150 amp charger and a 1" exposed joint pin, that if followed, may injure or possible kill someone.....nothing from Mr. Wilson (and he was notified about the danger:wink:).....Then in the ensuing thread TW questions someone's credentials.. and TW gets warned? Something is a bit screwy here...just saying. Guess that may change once someone follows Ricky's advice and blows something up or gets injured, and someone sues the board for allowing such dangerous advice .....
:confused::confused::confused:
Dave
 
This thread is a great example of why so many great cue builders don't post here. I find it a little hard to argue with TW on this one. Apparently others don't. If someone got injured following bad advice posted in this thread, who would be at fault?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Dave38 said:
SOOOO.....Ricky gets banned for a week, then once back, the first things he posts is advice involving a 150 amp charger and a 1" exposed joint pin, that if followed, may injure or possible kill someone.....nothing from Mr. Wilson (and he was notified about the danger:wink:).....Then in the ensuing thread TW questions someone's credentials.. and TW gets warned? Something is a bit screwy here...just saying. Guess that may change once someone follows Ricky's advice and blows something up or gets injured, and someone sues the board for allowing such dangerous advice .....
:confused::confused::confused:
Dave
Click to expand...


Come on now Dave battery chargers are designed with circuit protection.

Mine has a delay on the higher amp settings that allows me to heat my pin.

Kill someone? If you don't think that people turn on chargers all of the time with a dead short on the leads by mistake, you are not living in reality.

Battery chargers are tested and have UL ratings to be safe. Shorting them only results in the protection mode to turn it off until the heat cools on the bi metal device.

I thought that you would understand that! Guess I was wrong!

Torches don't have a safety device and there is more chance to kill someone in a shop where chemicals and other combustibles exist if you lose focus for a second. You have to be careful and circumspect when doing everything in a cue shop or you will get hurt very easily.

Rick
 
Last edited:
scdiveteam said:
Come on now Dave battery chargers are designed with circuit protection.

Mine has a delay on the higher amp settings that allows me to heat my pin.

Kill someone? If you don't think that people turn on chargers all of the time with a dead short on the leads by mistake, you are not living in reality.

Battery chargers are tested and have UL ratings to be safe. Shorting them only results in the protection mode to turn it off until the heat cools on the bi metal device.

I thought that you would understand that! Guess I was wrong!

Torches don't have a safety device and there is more chance to kill someone in a shop where chemicals and other combustibles exist if you lose focus for a second. You have to be careful and circumspect when doing everything in a cue shop or you will get hurt very easily.

Rick
Click to expand...

Maybe you spent too much time underwater...or you should spend more time underwater.

Even if dead shorting a battery charger is 'safe', it is still the most ridiculous way to heat a metal pin to the ~300 degrees required to break down most epoxies.
 
SLIM said:
Perhaps the o.p. Was assuming that he should not use a torch because he had heard that titanium will burn.
While it is true that titanium will burn, it is only the fine chips. Strings or dust from machining or filing that will ignite.
There is no reason that you can’t heat up a titanium pin with an open flame torch to the relatively low temperature that it takes to soften the adhesive that holds in the pin on a cue.

I am not a cue maker but, i have been in the machining trade for well over 30 years & have been working with titanium for many of those years during my career.

I really do not want to be involved in the arguments that are taking place in this thread.
I am just trying to help out the o.p.

Slim
Click to expand...

Congrats, an educated and informative post.

BTW, pretty much any metal will oxidize in the right conditions, if the conditions are exactly right it causes enough heat to burn.
 
Do we have to overthink everything here? In our applications, titanium is no different to work with than any other metal pin. There are subtle nuances for each but nothing that requires special equipment.

I've removed hundreds of pins. I have never needed anything more than a torch, or more recently, a Miniductor.

Please remember this.... K.I.S.S.
 
ratcues said:
Do we have to overthink everything here? In our applications, titanium is no different to work with than any other metal pin. There are subtle nuances for each but nothing that requires special equipment.

I've removed hundreds of pins. I have never needed anything more than a torch, or more recently, a Miniductor.

Please remember this.... K.I.S.S.
Click to expand...
]



A serious question Ryan with all kidding aside.

I believe you have done a ton of pin torching. Why did you decide to get the Miniductor?

KISS would dictate using the torch forevermore because of the past success.

Inquiring minds wish to know!

Also do you use Butane or Map gas?

Rick
 
scdiveteam said:
]



A serious question Ryan with all kidding aside.

I believe you have done a ton of pin torching. Why did you decide to get the Miniductor?

KISS would dictate using the torch forevermore because of the past success.

Inquiring minds wish to know!

Also do you use Butane or Map gas?

Rick
Click to expand...


Rick

The answer to your question seems very obvious to me, and it's actually inline with what Ryan originally stated.

His method of choice was to simply heat the pin to break down the epoxy and allow him to remove the pin. He chose a method that was available to him, and easy and quick, the torch. Most of us fall into that exact category. Now, he finds himself doing more and more joint pin removals and chose to improve on his already proven method. It's worth spending the money on the Minductor because of the volume of pins he has to remove, and it will do the job quicker and easier. I think this decision was the epitome of "keep it simple stupid".


Royce
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top