curving an object ball....

(((Satori))) said:
Dr. Dave's line is a more accurate representation of how much the object ball curved imo.

The angle of the picture does not allow for accuracy when you make the line follow the path through the ball at rail and the ball in the first frame because the object ball jumps off the rail.
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Also, the ball compresses the cushion and slides down the rail during rebound. That's why I started the line with the OB off the cushion a bit. That results in a better measure of the actual curve after rebound. Another thing we need to be careful with is the effect of the airborne CB on camera perspective. If the camera angle is oblique and the CB hops, the 3D perspective might fool us into thinking the ball is curving more (or less) than it actually is.

I will try to shoot some video tomorrow with two cameras ... one a view similar to John's, and another looking straight down the rebound path. I will also try different angles and speeds (but mostly fast) to see what is possible on my equipment.

Regards,
Dave

PS: I would have shot the video today, but I decided to dedicate the day to improving my BU Exam II score. I managed to improve my PR by one point, but I was still 4 points shy of a perfect score. I won't rest until I get a perfect score ... I think it is quite possible on the Masters-level Exam II. I think a perfect score on the Doctorate-level exam would be a lot, lot tougher to achieve, even for a top pro. I'll post the video on the AZB BU sticky thread after I get it edited and uploaded.
 
HalfDeadEd said:
you're one of my favorite pool players but, it doesn't look like it curves more than a half ball.

did you watch the video i posted?
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Thanks! But even a half a ball makes a pretty big difference when playing banks. ( better angle coming into the pocket is one the reasons I hit em like that )



What vid? Thanks again,JB
 
BRussell said:
I see it spinning, but I can't see that it's curving.
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I put a straight line on the r) edge of the ball, as it travelled it's final foot or so.

Held it there in a manner that extrnted it to the banking rail and it didn't roll in any straight line.

Looked like it was going pretty slow, but I will still be it didn't roll off! Woulda been nice to see it full speed too...
 
John, thanks for taking the time to record the video and post it for us. As well as answering questions. Not too many pros come on here, let alone post and answer questions. Very cool of you! :thumbup:
 
John Brumback said:
It does take a good "stroking method". My new term I just now came up with,hehe. Thank you!!. JB
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Sssssshhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Don't give it ALL away.
Gotta keep some of that voodoo stuff a secret. :smilewinkgrin:

Nice shot on the video by the way.
Puts an end to any doubt.:D
 
I've watched Fargo do that enough times to know I didn't imagine it. At times I swear it broke 2-3 inches over the distance from the rail to the pocket,enough that it was clearly noticeable.

I also quit trying to get him to explain HOW he did it. I came to the conclusion that there are some things,as bad as I hate to admit it,I can't reproduce on command. Tommy D.
 
You just have to put that gobble English on em... Thats what we call it here in Western Ky... Cue ball will gobble up the pocket instead of jaw out:wink:
 
Charlie Hustle said:
John, thanks for taking the time to record the video and post it for us. As well as answering questions. Not too many pros come on here, let alone post and answer questions. Very cool of you! :thumbup:
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Agreed and seconded!

Thank you, John. Great stuff
 
I think I have proved a good point here,and it's a simple one for some of ya:D...would you rather bank into a small pocket or a big one? Oh and by the way...that's called a method,not some stinking system. :D

I have had a few top players ask me why I'm putting this stuff out there for free and I just said I like tryin to help them folks on AZB and that I have sold quite a few dvds on there too!! So I just want to say thanks to all the friends and fans that I have met and to all the ones that have bought my dvds.I think it's a good trade!! Thanks again!!!.. John Brumback
 
John Brumback said:
I think I have proved a good point here,and it's a simple one for some of ya:D...would you rather bank into a small pocket or a big one? Oh and by the way...that's called a method,not some stinking system. :D

I have had a few top players ask me why I'm putting this stuff out there for free and I just said I like tryin to help them folks on AZB and that I have sold quite a few dvds on there too!! So I just want to say thanks to all the friends and fans that I have met and to all the ones that have bought my dvds.I think it's a good trade!! Thanks again!!!.. John Brumback
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Thanks, John. What you're talking about only works with cross side banks, right? I mean the closer the OB hits to the side pocket on the banking rail the bigger the other side pocket becomes (the gate of the pocket is max'd out).......so, like you demonstrated, over cutting with speed and tad of inside, high english or just a center ball stun can shorten or bend it back. What you use is, I guess, dependent on how close the OB is to the banking rail?

What about all the other 1-rail banks, like straight backs and cross corners? Unlike the side pockets which have their opening facing perpendicular to the long rail, the 4 corner pocket openings are facing at a 45 degree to the short and long rails. How do you approach those shots. To make those pockets "bigger", you have to do the opposite of the cross side banks, right?

Oh, yeah, nothing wrong with systems. Why are you dissing them? Many players, amateurs and pros alike use them. Here's one pro that likes systems.......don't ask him to arm wrestle, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3U-qUPU134&t=0m55s
 
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DTL said:
Thanks, John. What you're talking about only works with cross side banks, right? I mean the closer the OB hits to the side pocket on the banking rail the bigger the other side pocket becomes (the gate of the pocket is max'd out).......so, like you demonstrated, over cutting with speed and tad of inside, high english or just a center ball stun can shorten or bend it back. What you use is, I guess, dependent on how close the OB is to the banking rail?

What about all the other 1-rail banks, like straight backs and cross corners? Unlike the side pockets which have their opening facing perpendicular to the long rail, the 4 corner pocket openings are facing at a 45 degree to the short and long rails. How do you approach those shots. To make those pockets "bigger", you have to do the opposite of the cross side banks, right?

Oh, yeah, nothing wrong with systems. Why are you dissing them? Many players, amateurs and pros alike use them. Here's one pro that likes systems.......don't ask him to arm wrestle, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3U-qUPU134&t=0m55s
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Doesn't matter how far off the rail or which pocket it is,my method still works. I like methods for the shot at hand,not systems,but whatever you wanna do go right ahead:smile: John B.
 
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DTL said:
Over cutting the OB on a straight backs and cross corners makes the corner pockets smaller in terms of how the OB is approaching the pocket. The corner pockets are biggest at the spot on the short rail closest to the diagonal corner pocket (or closest to the opposite side pocket on the long rail). So under cutting straight backs with outside english (twisting the OB) makes corner pockets bigger.

When shooting a ball down the rail into the corner pocket, you only have a 1/2 pocket to hit. So the further out in the middle of the table you get, the larger the corner pocket becomes.
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I think parts of the idea are..

Come in more straight on towards the pocket
Lessen the variance of the rebound angle
Get that knuckleball action so it doesn't rattle as much

Or maybe im wrong. I get that a lot. :thumbup:
 
DTL said:
View attachment 413982

This straight back on the 9 ball to the bottom right corner shows the 1 ball to be a slight undercut target and the 5 ball to be a slight overcut target on the short rail.........in between would be a perfect geometric angle in, angle out to the pocket.

The one ball has a bigger pocket than the five.

So to make the pocket bigger here you have to undercut it at the 1 ball target with outside english (left) which transfers right english to the OB, twisting it toward the pocket.

Shooting the 9 ball with an overcut at the 5 ball target and you'll have to hold it up like in JB's demonstration, but that makes this corner pocket smaller.
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Geometrically maybe so... Effectively I don't think so maybe because of the turn on the cueball holding it up....

I understand what you are saying but if you are banking the 9ball I am going to hazard a guess that the hold up has a higher percentage for most players which is why actual bank players would prefer to hit it that way... As John said there is a method to banking the balls that he prefers.. After watching and filming him for years I can tell you a hold up is always preferred over using english to open the angle unless there is an obstacle... This is definitely where "in theory" and "in practice" are separate things...
 
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