man witnessed sad action last night - 2 idiots in a pool room

[BmoreMoney]

Another point I think is worth mentioning. Starting at a relatively young age, I saw and learned pretty much all the moves. These were invaluable life lessons that I was able to carry into my adult life and have been able to use to protect myself in countless situations. So may call it common sense, maybe street smarts but whatever you want to call it there are SOOO many lacking it now adays. There are so many people out there each and every day just looking to rip people off with this or that and the reason so many people get ripped of today is because they lack this knowledge. In a real pool room you will see the absolute best and absolute worst of people. Knowing these things early on will help you throughout your entire life.

 

[dabarbr]

His story is pure bullshit, and I say that because I've played pool for money for a long.....long time. This I know to be the truth when it comes to making money gambling, if you're playing someone for money....and you can get that first bet or race to what ever....under YOUR belt, your opponent will lose as much as they're willing to lose chasing down that first amount of money lost. To many times ive won $100 from my opponent chasing the first $10 they lost. Once I had them on the hook, chasing that $10....I could afford to play games with him losing a game here and there, but always just keeping that first $10 lost suckling more and more out of him. Only when he'd said he'd had enough did I consider giving up some weight to get more money out of him, but I was also paying very close attention to IF he still had more cash on him to lose....if not, I didn't want to give up weight and play him on the wire, so we'd quit when he said he'd had enough...and that was that. Now, if I saw him in the pool room later on, I'd wait until he'd come up to me and ask to play again, if he didn't approach me, then I'd bump into him sooner or later and ask him if he wantediluvian to play again....same as we played the last time. If he turned me down, then....and only then did I offer him a chance to get his money back....but I always let him set the terms of playing again, I never offered a spot first. If his terms offered was less than what I was willing to give him, then the play began....if his terms was more weight than I was willing to give up, then I would counter him with a different match up. If he didn't like my offer....then we wouldn't play at that time. BUT....sooner or later, he'd be in the pool room another time, and offer to play me with the counter terms he'd first offered, and I'd beat him until he was broke again.

I never played anyone my speed or better very often in my own pool rooms because then I'd have to play at my true speed, which would cost me more money in the long run than I could have made playing someone of my own speed.

I'll never forget the time I pulled my second tour in Germany. I was stationed in Garlstadt, GR, hadn't been there but about a month, already beating every player who come in the post recreation center when I finally got to meet the so called best player on post....Benjy Brooks. He was pretty good, real good actually....but I get him playing 9ball, 8ball, 8ball last pocket, 6ball....and finally banks....over the next couple of weeks, in which I learned the harest lesson of all, being the best don't pay shit. I could never get action with anyone.on post again....but Benny on the other hand, was playing everyone left and right for money. The lesson I learned was that everyone was playing Benny as a way of seeing if thsir game had improved enough to play me.....because if the couldn't beat Benny....then they didn't want to play me.....so, Benny thanked me with giving me a $100 because before I showed up....he couldn't make a dime anymore in the pool room as he'd already beaten everyone in the past and all his action had died so he wasn't making shit.

But, Benny was nice enough to take me all over Germany to all the action spots as an unknown so I could still make some money....but of course....50% of what I'd win was his...LMAO


Bottom line here is, yes, hustling IS a form of art, whereas gambling is for the suckers!!!!

The truth is that what you say is the truth. There is beauty also in watching two players hustling each other and hiding their speed and as time goes on both games get better because neither one wants to get stuck. No profit if you get stuck and trying to at least get even. Many times they will quit before you get even.
The truth is everyone wants the best of it if money is involved.

 

[realkingcobra]

The truth is that what you say is the truth. There is beauty also in watching two players hustling each other and hiding their speed and as time goes on both games get better because neither one wants to get stuck. No profit if you get stuck and trying to at least get even. Many times they will quit before you get even.
The truth is everyone wants the best of it if money is involved.

Breaking even was always bad business. If my opponent buried me from the start, and I fought my way back k to even...they pulled out of the action because they didn't want to take the chance.of losing. If I ever let a weaker player get back to even by slacking off, they'd quit in a NY second....or want some kind of spot to keep playing to which I'd always refuse to give up weight....without having their money in my pocket first:thumbup:

 

[BmoreMoney]

Breaking even was always bad business. If my opponent buried me from the start, and I fought my way back k to even...they pulled out of the action because they didn't want to take the chance.of losing. If I ever let a weaker player get back to even by slacking off, they'd quit in a NY second....or want some kind of spot to keep playing to which I'd always refuse to give up weight....without having their money in my pocket first:thumbup:

RKC, I have a strong belief that many that post here on various topics have never been there - done that. I think they are " idealistic " people and probably live their " real " lives exactly the same. It's quite easy to put forth your opinion when in reality although you " think " you know what you're talking about but have nothing more than a thought.

 

[Johnny Rosato]

It's lame, I agree. I can honestly say I've never hustled anyone! I have played for money, but I never lay down. I always play my hardest (unless I'm playing kids, non-player friends or something like that). At times people have misjudged my speed, but that was their mistake, not from me hiding my ability. Pool to me is a sport, and I prefer not to hang out with lowlifes more than I absolutely have to, nor do I want to rob beginners of their money. I'm playing to get better, primarily. If I choose to play you for money, it's because I respect you and your game, not because I see you as a lamb to be slaughtered.

Pool is in the gutter for many reasons, but the culture displayed in this thread has at least some of the blame. It extends all the way up to the top. Every time someone starts anything in pool it ends up with the top guy running away with everyones money or at least trying to. The entire Bonus Ball venture, and the IPT as well were hustles on a gigantic scale. They were not successful hustles, but they were hustles none the less. The entirety of modern pool history is a long line of failed hustles, and a few successful ones, that in fact did even more damage! COC scandal, anyone?

Very well said !!!

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I am going to blow some money at a Casino tomorrow, I hope some helpful soul doesn't try to stop me.

Right a grown man in his 40s, if he chooses to spend money gambling and losing then let him. No need to step in and help.

 

[Poolplaya9]

That is only because you continue to bring this up with me. The " hood culture " as you so eloquently put it is not so that person doesn't face jistice, it's so that justice can be dealt with amongst their own - which pretty much always happens.

I have mentioned something similar one time. It was the perfect analogy here. That hardly amounts to "continuing to bring it up with you".

As for the rest, I think you are just playing dumb. There is no way anybody is really that dense. The "keep your mouth shut" mentality from criminals is 99% precisely so they can get away with their activity and escape justice. You are obviously incredibly naive and you damn sure aren't remotely close to being street smart like you think you are.

 

[Poolplaya9]

RKC, I have a strong belief that many that post here on various topics have never been there - done that. I think they are " idealistic " people and probably live their " real " lives exactly the same. It's quite easy to put forth your opinion when in reality although you " think " you know what you're talking about but have nothing more than a thought.

Will you please try to use just a little bit of logic just one time somewhere in this thread? Just a little bit? Just once? You don't even have to have ever even played pool to know that deceiving someone to take advantage of them is wrong. This isn't rocket science dude. Your experience level in pool is immaterial to being able to see this. But for the record I personally have some experience and have been gambling at pool longer than you have, have owned a pool hall, have been fully and heavily immersed and involved in the culture for a long time, etc. None of it is needed to see the obvious though.

Your excuse that "well everybody in pool does it so that makes it somehow right" is a dumb excuse with no logic. By that same logic, if I start to hang out only with murderers is it now somehow ok if I murder somebody since everybody I hang out with does it too? The "well everybody else is doing it so that makes it right" argument is dumb. There is no logic there.

Not to mention that the "it is the pool culture" argument is wrong to begin with too. It is not the pool culture. Yes hustling and deceiving to take advantage of people is accepted by more people in pool than it is by society in general but it still is only the culture of a very small segment people who play pool. There are something like forty million people who play pool in the US (or whatever the latest figure is). How many of them are hustlers? Less than 1% probably. Even among serious players who play often, at least once a week, what percentage do you think are hustling? Maybe 5%? What about among those that gamble often, what percentage of them are hustlers? Maybe 20%--maybe?

It is a small segment no matter how you look at it and it is a minority no matter how you slice it. A minority of people is never the culture. Hustling is just the culture of the hustlers. All you have really managed to say in this thread is "well all the hustlers hustle". Well no sh!t sherlock. Of course all hustlers are hustlers. Of course hustling is the culture among hustlers. But most pool players, serious pool players, and even most pool players who gamble not hustlers. Hustlers are a minority any way you cut it and it is not the culture except among hustlers.

But even if it was the culture and 100% of pool players did it, it doesn't make it right. It just means that everybody in that culture is doing wrong. Yours and other peoples attempts to justify it are laughable and lack any logic whatsoever. You aren't even able to be honest with yourselves. Just stop lying and admit that yeah of course it is wrong to try to deceive someone to take advantage of them but you like to do it anyway because you need the money or just to see how good you can be at deceiving people or whatever your reason. But stop lying to yourself and us as it makes one not look very smart when you try to argue something ludicrous.

If you still want to be silly and try to insist that deceiving someone to take advantage of them in pool is somehow not wrong when it is wrong in literally every other case in the entire world, then we are still waiting to hear your LOGICAL explanation for why it is ok in pool when it is wrong everywhere else. If you can't lay out a logical argument (which you can't but again lets hear it if you think you can) then just admit the truth, that of course it is wrong, there is nothing logical about pool that would make it some exception, but you just like it anyway for whatever your reasons.

 

[jburkm002]

What's the difference if two players play a race for $1000 or play $100 a game? If player A is much better than player B. Player A still comes out ahead $1000. Is one gambling and the other is hustling?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[KissedOut]

RKC, I have a strong belief that many that post here on various topics have never been there - done that. I think they are " idealistic " people and probably live their " real " lives exactly the same. It's quite easy to put forth your opinion when in reality although you " think " you know what you're talking about but have nothing more than a thought.

You are right. People who have never lived in the gutter shouldn't comment about the stink.

You don't even see the problem because you are so steeped in it.

Maybe you guys really believe it is an art form to extract as much money as possible from someone via deception. How sad for you. You are kings in a little corrupt dirty world. Yay.

 

[Neil]

.........................
If you still want to be silly and try to insist that deceiving someone to take advantage of them in pool is somehow not wrong when it is wrong in literally every other case in the entire world, then we are still waiting to hear your LOGICAL explanation for why it is ok in pool when it is wrong everywhere else. If you can't lay out a logical argument (which you can't but again lets hear it if you think you can) then just admit the truth, that of course it is wrong, there is nothing logical about pool that would make it some exception, but you just like it anyway for whatever your reasons.

I have one word for you- poker.

 

[alstl]

Will you please try to use just a little bit of logic just one time somewhere in this thread? Just a little bit? Just once? You don't even have to have ever even played pool to know that deceiving someone to take advantage of them is wrong. This isn't rocket science dude. Your experience level in pool is immaterial to being able to see this. But for the record I personally have some experience and have been gambling at pool longer than you have, have owned a pool hall, have been fully and heavily immersed and involved in the culture for a long time, etc. None of it is needed to see the obvious though.

Your excuse that "well everybody in pool does it so that makes it somehow right" is a dumb excuse with no logic. By that same logic, if I start to hang out only with murderers is it now somehow ok if I murder somebody since everybody I hang out with does it too? The "well everybody else is doing it so that makes it right" argument is dumb. There is no logic there.

Not to mention that the "it is the pool culture" argument is wrong to begin with too. It is not the pool culture. Yes hustling and deceiving to take advantage of people is accepted by more people in pool than it is by society in general but it still is only the culture of a very small segment people who play pool. There are something like forty million people who play pool in the US (or whatever the latest figure is). How many of them are hustlers? Less than 1% probably. Even among serious players who play often, at least once a week, what percentage do you think are hustling? Maybe 5%? What about among those that gamble often, what percentage of them are hustlers? Maybe 20%--maybe?

It is a small segment no matter how you look at it and it is a minority no matter how you slice it. A minority of people is never the culture. Hustling is just the culture of the hustlers. All you have really managed to say in this thread is "well all the hustlers hustle". Well no sh!t sherlock. Of course all hustlers are hustlers. Of course hustling is the culture among hustlers. But most pool players, serious pool players, and even most pool players who gamble not hustlers. Hustlers are a minority any way you cut it and it is not the culture except among hustlers.

But even if it was the culture and 100% of pool players did it, it doesn't make it right. It just means that everybody in that culture is doing wrong. Yours and other peoples attempts to justify it are laughable and lack any logic whatsoever. You aren't even able to be honest with yourselves. Just stop lying and admit that yeah of course it is wrong to try to deceive someone to take advantage of them but you like to do it anyway because you need the money or just to see how good you can be at deceiving people or whatever your reason. But stop lying to yourself and us as it makes one not look very smart when you try to argue something ludicrous.

If you still want to be silly and try to insist that deceiving someone to take advantage of them in pool is somehow not wrong when it is wrong in literally every other case in the entire world, then we are still waiting to hear your LOGICAL explanation for why it is ok in pool when it is wrong everywhere else. If you can't lay out a logical argument (which you can't but again lets hear it if you think you can) then just admit the truth, that of course it is wrong, there is nothing logical about pool that would make it some exception, but you just like it anyway for whatever your reasons.

I rarely discuss politics because you can lose friends and because nobody changes their mind but Hillary hired some experts deleted 33,000 emails to cover up some shady business and she is probably going to be the next president of the country. When the politicians engage in trade negotiations it is done in private and then you go to work one morning to discover your job has been shipped overseas. Deceiving people is more prevalent in pool than in the rest of society? The people running the country do it every day for far higher stakes than what pool players play for.

 

[pvc lou]

It appears to me that your main "logical device" is to belittle and insult your readers' intelligence.

I have mentioned something similar one time. It was the perfect analogy here. That hardly amounts to "continuing to bring it up with you".



As for the rest, I think you are just playing dumb. There is no way anybody is really that dense. The "keep your mouth shut" mentality from criminals is 99% precisely so they can get away with their activity and escape justice. You are obviously incredibly naive and you damn sure aren't remotely close to being street smart like you think you are.

 

[MikieG]

I have been playing for 28 years now. When i realized i wasnt going pro, i decided to build cues. I love cue games as much as the next guy.
That said, we wonder why billiards is loosing interest. It is viewed as a scummy game played in seedy places by the scurge of society.
I have watched kids come into the game and think this is really what it is all about.

 

[realkingcobra]

Will you please try to use just a little bit of logic just one time somewhere in this thread? Just a little bit? Just once? You don't even have to have ever even played pool to know that deceiving someone to take advantage of them is wrong. This isn't rocket science dude. Your experience level in pool is immaterial to being able to see this. But for the record I personally have some experience and have been gambling at pool longer than you have, have owned a pool hall, have been fully and heavily immersed and involved in the culture for a long time, etc. None of it is needed to see the obvious though.

Your excuse that "well everybody in pool does it so that makes it somehow right" is a dumb excuse with no logic. By that same logic, if I start to hang out only with murderers is it now somehow ok if I murder somebody since everybody I hang out with does it too? The "well everybody else is doing it so that makes it right" argument is dumb. There is no logic there.

Not to mention that the "it is the pool culture" argument is wrong to begin with too. It is not the pool culture. Yes hustling and deceiving to take advantage of people is accepted by more people in pool than it is by society in general but it still is only the culture of a very small segment people who play pool. There are something like forty million people who play pool in the US (or whatever the latest figure is). How many of them are hustlers? Less than 1% probably. Even among serious players who play often, at least once a week, what percentage do you think are hustling? Maybe 5%? What about among those that gamble often, what percentage of them are hustlers? Maybe 20%--maybe?

It is a small segment no matter how you look at it and it is a minority no matter how you slice it. A minority of people is never the culture. Hustling is just the culture of the hustlers. All you have really managed to say in this thread is "well all the hustlers hustle". Well no sh!t sherlock. Of course all hustlers are hustlers. Of course hustling is the culture among hustlers. But most pool players, serious pool players, and even most pool players who gamble not hustlers. Hustlers are a minority any way you cut it and it is not the culture except among hustlers.

But even if it was the culture and 100% of pool players did it, it doesn't make it right. It just means that everybody in that culture is doing wrong. Yours and other peoples attempts to justify it are laughable and lack any logic whatsoever. You aren't even able to be honest with yourselves. Just stop lying and admit that yeah of course it is wrong to try to deceive someone to take advantage of them but you like to do it anyway because you need the money or just to see how good you can be at deceiving people or whatever your reason. But stop lying to yourself and us as it makes one not look very smart when you try to argue something ludicrous.

If you still want to be silly and try to insist that deceiving someone to take advantage of them in pool is somehow not wrong when it is wrong in literally every other case in the entire world, then we are still waiting to hear your LOGICAL explanation for why it is ok in pool when it is wrong everywhere else. If you can't lay out a logical argument (which you can't but again lets hear it if you think you can) then just admit the truth, that of course it is wrong, there is nothing logical about pool that would make it some exception, but you just like it anyway for whatever your reasons.

You're so full of shit I can smell you all the way to my house. When GROWN adults agree to play pool for money or for what ever the bet is, it is done so WILLINGLY. You're like a politician who wants to call it immoral, unless of course you're getting something out of it. Alcohol, cigarettes, fast foods, TVs, computers, cell phones and drugs are all bad for everyone, including you, yet you accept all of the bullshit shoved down your throat as being ok, even though uncountable dollars are being made off the public sheep in this country....as being ok. Income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, Capitol gains taxes, lottery taxes.....all those taxes are ripping you off on a daily basis, like it or not, no matter what....you're going to support a tax stealing money from you and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Gambling playing pool is a choice, NO ONE is reaching into your wallet and taking your money without your permission, like it or not. Don't like pool played for money, then DON'T PLAY POOL FOR MONEY, is that simple. Who are YOU to even think you have a right to judge what other pool players do when it comes to gambling playing pool?

 

[realkingcobra]

I have been playing for 28 years now. When i realized i wasnt going pro

There you have it in a nut shell...."Pro"....in today's world, what does that even mean? The problem with pool not going anywhere is because EVERYONE playing thinks they have a right to play with the best players on the planet at anytime in any pool tournament that they can buy their way into which seriously blurs the line between what makes a Pro and the rest of the dead weight players. When there is no defining line between the best and the rest, there is no representation of this sport on a Professional level that the world can see as the best there is in this sport, and without that level of separation there will never be any professional level sponsors to support a bunch of rag tag pool players who want to share the lime light with the best there is for fear of being left out and cast aside as not good enough to belong in the same class of players. No, pool players would rather remain selfish and delut this sport with their presence, rather than draw a line in the sand and push the top 128 plyers in the world over that line as the best of the best, to represent this sport on a professional basis that the world might enjoy watching PROFESSIONAL POOL PLAYERS represent this sport for the good of all, and for the good of the sponsors so that they continue to look at this sport as having our shit together.....FINALLY!

 

[MikieG]

When you can encounter the "PROs" in the very same pool rooms the rest of us deadwood player shoot in and they are there cunducting themselves in the same way the rest of the yahoos are for chump change, how do you suggest there be a line in the sand?
When was the last time you saw Michael Jordan down the ghetto hustling one on one with the locals? Or when have you saw the Williams sisters over on the highschool courts playing deadwood players for $20 a serve? How about Tiger Woods hustling down at the municipal course for $5 a hole?
So, yes there is most definately a division between pros and deadwoods. Just NOT in pool.
And that is because of the way we as players conduct ourselves and our sport.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I'll be blunt .
If one of the participants are not your friend or relative or someone you really know, his action is none of your business.
And even if he was your friend, you might get in trouble in trying to save him.
And that might not be even coming from the people hustling him. HE might be the trouble to you. I've been on that end of the stick . I saw a friend lose thousands and I told him he needed to quit on this guy and get back to him month later after he's improved. He went nuts on me telling me I belittled his game . A year or two later, he was down some 100K to another person whom I told him not to play unless he got a spot. Would not listen. Then he came back to me asking for help how he would recover his money.

People's action at the pool hall is really not your business unless YOU ARE PART OF IT. Sooner or later, one will learn a lesson about this.

I've seen matches where the sucker needed a few balls or games to even have a chance to win a set . I said nothing. Even if the guy hustling is notorious to be an action knocker himself . I know one person threatened to shoot him for being an action knocker at Hard Times. But, that time when he was robbing a poor kid, nobody said nothing .

 

[realkingcobra]

When you can encounter the "PROs" in the very same pool rooms the rest of us deadwood player shoot in and they are there cunducting themselves in the same way the rest of the yahoos are for chump change, how do you suggest there be a line in the sand?
When was the last time you saw Michael Jordan down the ghetto hustling one on one with the locals? Or when have you saw the Williams sisters over on the highschool courts playing deadwood players for $20 a serve? How about Tiger Woods hustling down at the municipal course for $5 a hole?
So, yes there is most definately a division between pros and deadwoods. Just NOT in pool.
And that is because of the way we as players conduct ourselves and our sport.

Let me ask you something if you think you're so damn smart to throw around the names of Pro's from other sports as if that gives your bullshit some kin of validation. Did basketball start out with PRO'S? Did baseball start out with PRO'S? Did golf start out with PRO'S? How about football, did that start out with PRO'S? YOU and the mentality of everyone like you, by the millions are the set back to pool becoming a real sport. Pool is older than all the sports Isited above, and yet.....400+ years later, is still so unorganized it's sickening, and it's all because of property like you, because you refuse to show this sport the respect it deserves.....and get the hell out of the way and let there be some organization brought forth that DOES separate players by skill level so that there's no doubt that if someone is called a Pro, it's because they've earned that right! Not to be mistaken by someone who just simply says....I play at Pro level....because you can beat everyone at your local bar. When someone asks, what does it take to be a Professional pool player....instead of 35 pages of bullshit answers and ideas, the answer would be as simple as....show the world you have more skills that the top 128 players in the world currently holding the rank of "PRO" status!!!! That my dear boy is what draws the line between SEMI-PRO....and "PRO"....leaving the rest of the worlds players in the sandbox with the rest of us "AMATEURS " THEN, AND OLNY THEN will this sport have a chance of gaining the sponsors it so richly deserves making PROFESSIONALS the money and endorsement deals they've earned, just like all other PROFESSIONAL SPORTS FIGURES!!!

 

[BmoreMoney]

I have mentioned something similar one time. It was the perfect analogy here. That hardly amounts to "continuing to bring it up with you".

As for the rest, I think you are just playing dumb. There is no way anybody is really that dense. The "keep your mouth shut" mentality from criminals is 99% precisely so they can get away with their activity and escape justice. You are obviously incredibly naive and you damn sure aren't remotely close to being street smart like you think you are.

Actually, in just one thread alone, you mentioned it to me 3 or 4 times - at least. If you care to make a wager on that that is worth my time I'll look it up. I know your type, shooting dice on the corner is wrong because..... drinking a beer on your sidewalk I wrong because..... doing this or doing that is wrong because.....I get it. But remember what forum your on and try to understand while maybe it's not your thing it's a lot of others and you have NO RIGHT to pass judgement- EVER even as much as you think you can. Btw, I see in your most recent blathering you said DUDE, BRO.