justin386 flooded the market.
What happened to the cue market lately?
- Thread starter Cuemaster98
- Start date
greed is main reason, buyers want more for less, sellers want to sell less for more.
then it's ignorance, if knowledge on cue market is spread by dealers, then buyers are just looking through a key hole. then a lot of cuemakers of great quality but low production went unnoticed.
then, it's fear, fear is a result of ignorance, the question "what if" popped up all the time, then comparison with other cues that fit their budget.
My interest in bigger cues ended last year when I had a chance to talk to a big cue collector. now I have clear criteria in mind that I will strictly follow when buy cues for me or my friends.
Yes, I may be having my contribution burying the already dead cue market.
then it's ignorance, if knowledge on cue market is spread by dealers, then buyers are just looking through a key hole. then a lot of cuemakers of great quality but low production went unnoticed.
then, it's fear, fear is a result of ignorance, the question "what if" popped up all the time, then comparison with other cues that fit their budget.
My interest in bigger cues ended last year when I had a chance to talk to a big cue collector. now I have clear criteria in mind that I will strictly follow when buy cues for me or my friends.
Yes, I may be having my contribution burying the already dead cue market.
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THAT'S freaking CLASSIC!!
Supply and demand, a tale as old as time. High end makers whose names have been well promoted and whose production is low will command higher prices. For custom cues in general there are many good makers out there who can build good cues. And for playability there are many many production cues, from all over the world which are good enough to play high level pool with.
And then there are raffles.... Raffles at over inflated prices suck a lot of money out of the room. People are entitled to whatever profit they can make but it is clear that if a lot of buyers are participating in raffles where the total price of the item is well above market then the net result is a less items moved for far more money. That leaves less money on the table for those trying to sell conventionally.
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And then there are raffles.... Raffles at over inflated prices suck a lot of money out of the room. People are entitled to whatever profit they can make but it is clear that if a lot of buyers are participating in raffles where the total price of the item is well above market then the net result is a less items moved for far more money. That leaves less money on the table for those trying to sell conventionally.
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I would say this though as a case maker we are seeing a lot of orders for storage cases so it feels like people are still buying a lot of cues. They could just be transferring their cues into our cases but we hear a lot of "I want the case in before my new cue gets here" stories as well.
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Over the last couple years I've seen one cue on the wanted/for sale forum which I considered a good deal for a cue I would want to play with. The rest are either low level cues or overpriced.
It's really surprising how much cue prices have risen. Merry widows are going for $1,000.
It's really surprising how much cue prices have risen. Merry widows are going for $1,000.
Coffee out my nose. Actually, I'm not a collector. I did buy a model M from the 2nd catalog Palmer back in the day after a friend twisted my arm because he could get a good deal if he ordered two. Then I got busy with life for a few decades while the Palmer just sat in a closet.
My current playing cue is a Josey made in 2007. 4 sharp points and veneers, titlist style. It plays so sweet for my taste, I've quit looking.
So...thank you Keith Josey. I've quit looking for that magic cue. I'm sure this has saved me money over the past decade.
The cue market will fluctuate based on the breadth of justin386's finances.
That's no shit
:smile:
Here is the problem -- for a several years people could bilk others out of their cues by saying, the economy is down so the price of cues is down. Now that the economy is back, they don't want to pay a premium price for cues they once stole. But that is why I like SW, cause even during all of that b.s., the prices never waivered and kept going up. Keep selling em for premium prices boys, when I am ready to sell, I'll be able to pay cash for that boat in Florida.
Yes, they are priced way high because of Maker Status. They may be
asking high prices, but most are selling. I see these Cues listed over
and over again, sometimes for years.
LOL... That's the long way of saying "Supply & Demand" :thumbup:
I'm no economist, so this isn't an attempt to answer the OP question; but, just the 3 things that come to MY mind when I thought about it. All three actually revolve around "time".
1. Technology. In this era (time) we have access to highly sophisticated technology that allows folks to pump out a high volume of cues in a short period of time. (I'm thinking of CNC machines etc.). We've developed methods to measure the quality of a good hitting cue, and we can replicate that on a consistent mass production basis.
2. Generational as far as cue makers. While folks like Balabushka, Rambow, Huebler, and Szamboti (Gus) blazed the way in building cues, the second generation of cue makers has now matured. Folks like Scruggs, Mottey, Stroud, and Janes are reaching an age where they are considering retirement, or at least slowing down on the work level. (and sadly in some cases passing on all too soon.)
3. Generational as far as customers. Today's incoming crop of players have grown up with cell phones, game boys, and the Internet. They're used to instant gratification. They don't want to wait 6 months to 2 years (or more) for a new cue.
To my line of thinking, this leads to a higher /volume/ of "supply and demand" when it comes to the CNC factory replicated, rounded points, get 'em out the door cues than the hand tooled masterpieces that our older AZB members are so fond of. BUT - with such a large number of less active 2nd generational master builders - then the supply of the "unique" cues goes down, and thus the demand goes up. So supply down and demand up is going to lead to higher values IMO.
Now I'm not knocking either the mass production cues, OR the next generation of cue makers. But as the names of the past become legend - the number of people trying to create their own destiny becomes larger than it was in years past. Just the things this thread has made me consider.
(edit: The names are most certainly NOT meant to be all inclusive - that list would be too hard for my meager mind to put together)
1. Technology. In this era (time) we have access to highly sophisticated technology that allows folks to pump out a high volume of cues in a short period of time. (I'm thinking of CNC machines etc.). We've developed methods to measure the quality of a good hitting cue, and we can replicate that on a consistent mass production basis.
2. Generational as far as cue makers. While folks like Balabushka, Rambow, Huebler, and Szamboti (Gus) blazed the way in building cues, the second generation of cue makers has now matured. Folks like Scruggs, Mottey, Stroud, and Janes are reaching an age where they are considering retirement, or at least slowing down on the work level. (and sadly in some cases passing on all too soon.)
3. Generational as far as customers. Today's incoming crop of players have grown up with cell phones, game boys, and the Internet. They're used to instant gratification. They don't want to wait 6 months to 2 years (or more) for a new cue.
To my line of thinking, this leads to a higher /volume/ of "supply and demand" when it comes to the CNC factory replicated, rounded points, get 'em out the door cues than the hand tooled masterpieces that our older AZB members are so fond of. BUT - with such a large number of less active 2nd generational master builders - then the supply of the "unique" cues goes down, and thus the demand goes up. So supply down and demand up is going to lead to higher values IMO.
Now I'm not knocking either the mass production cues, OR the next generation of cue makers. But as the names of the past become legend - the number of people trying to create their own destiny becomes larger than it was in years past. Just the things this thread has made me consider.
(edit: The names are most certainly NOT meant to be all inclusive - that list would be too hard for my meager mind to put together)
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And the cue prices go up or down based on his reviews.
" This cue does not have a pro-taper. I hate it. Why do cue makers make shafts with a stiff taper?" That cue's prices go down the toilet after that .
The cue market has not been the same since the recession in Japan happened.
What we have here is the 25th Anniversary Edition of the "State of the Cue Market" thread.
Dealers aren't killing the market, the market is flooded. If you loaded all of the cues for sales on an ark, it would sink. There are +22,000 on the eBay US website alone and that doesn't take into account the tens of thousands new cues entering the market from production makers.
If you want to focus on non-production cues (I hesitate to call all non-production cues, custom cues.) There could be as many as 1,000 people representing themselves as cuemakers who affect the market. Yesterday I saw a cue for sale by a newby cuemaker that was priced the same as a very nice Samsara/John Davis cue. I see other people paying north of 1k for cues from guys who haven't made 10 sticks.
That's the part of the market I don't understand. And no, these are not future Balabushka/Szamboti legends in the making.
Dealers aren't killing the market, the market is flooded. If you loaded all of the cues for sales on an ark, it would sink. There are +22,000 on the eBay US website alone and that doesn't take into account the tens of thousands new cues entering the market from production makers.
If you want to focus on non-production cues (I hesitate to call all non-production cues, custom cues.) There could be as many as 1,000 people representing themselves as cuemakers who affect the market. Yesterday I saw a cue for sale by a newby cuemaker that was priced the same as a very nice Samsara/John Davis cue. I see other people paying north of 1k for cues from guys who haven't made 10 sticks.
That's the part of the market I don't understand. And no, these are not future Balabushka/Szamboti legends in the making.
Pool cues simply cost too much.
I bought one of the first Predators when they came out....around 1992 or 1993 I think it was.
I paid $300 and thought it was highway robbery...but I had a rich girlfriend who was financing the show.
That cue still plays very well too.
(I don't want to hear any of that stuff about "the price of everything has gone up", etc. etc.) :boring2:
Pool cues STILL cost too much........wayyyy too much
I bought one of the first Predators when they came out....around 1992 or 1993 I think it was.
I paid $300 and thought it was highway robbery...but I had a rich girlfriend who was financing the show.
That cue still plays very well too.
(I don't want to hear any of that stuff about "the price of everything has gone up", etc. etc.) :boring2:
Pool cues STILL cost too much........wayyyy too much
Lol 
funny thing is I don't think there's that many good quality cues on the market today...seem like everyone is hiding their cues in the closet. If you look at ebay, there are 22000 listing but how many of those are high end good quality cues (less than 50) and how many are good bargin (I see less than 3 cues that would peak my interest). I'm sick that I missed out on the high end Mike Bender Bead cue
funny thing is I don't think there's that many good quality cues on the market today...seem like everyone is hiding their cues in the closet. If you look at ebay, there are 22000 listing but how many of those are high end good quality cues (less than 50) and how many are good bargin (I see less than 3 cues that would peak my interest). I'm sick that I missed out on the high end Mike Bender Bead cue
LoL...those Palmer cues I sold are high quality premium gus blank that are sought after by a lot of collectors. They were sold cheap IMHO.....how many ebony gus szamboti forearm do you see in this market?