Comments on Willie Moscont

Right, I would too, I am betting to win, not lose, but to the guy who said that pros could run 800 on an eight footer with 5 inch pockets and the other guy who said that the record would be doubled today, My bet makes a lot of sense if they are truly that confident in their words. They are implying that 527 would not be so difficult for todays top pros- they just have not played enough 14.1- those statements are ridiculous.
 
lfigueroa said:
The mountain gets steeper the further up you go.

Same with a 14.1 run -- it's not just a matter of multiplication or saying well: if he can run 100 he can run 200 because that is just not so.

Lou Figueroa
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I completely agree with you about the mountain analogy, the run from 300 - 400 would have a lot more pressure than the run from 50 - 150 for most people. But you have guys with the mentality like Thorpe, Kid Delicious, and Dennis who seem to shine brightest under extreme pressure and have the mental toughness and focus to play extremely high speeds for hours and hours. That does apply to those kind of people. I'm not saying Thorpe or Danny would be the best candidate's for the straight pool challenge. Beating the record in some basement with a live stream is also completely different than doing it in front of a live audience, and wouldn't hold as much weight either. Also people in this thread and others talk about past champion's compared to today's players. It's ludicrous to think that great players like Don Willis, Ed Kelly, and pocket billiard geniuses like Eddie Taylor and Vernon Elliot wouldn't be champions in today's setting. If anything they would be better players today then in yesteryear because of the consistency in equipment and better playing cues.
 
J SCHWARZ said:
I completely agree with you about the mountain analogy, the run from 300 - 400 would have a lot more pressure than the run from 50 - 150 for most people. But you have guys with the mentality like Thorpe, Kid Delicious, and Dennis who seem to shine brightest under extreme pressure and have the mental toughness and focus to play extremely high speeds for hours and hours. That does apply to those kind of people. I'm not saying Thorpe or Danny would be the best candidate's for the straight pool challenge. Beating the record in some basement with a live stream is also completely different than doing it in front of a live audience, and wouldn't hold as much weight either. Also people in this thread and others talk about past champion's compared to today's players. It's ludicrous to think that great players like Don Willis, Ed Kelly, and pocket billiard geniuses like Eddie Taylor and Vernon Elliot wouldn't be champions in today's setting. If anything they would be better players today then in yesteryear because of the consistency in equipment and better playing cues.
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Yes, there is certainly the issue of mental toughness, the ability to maintain concentration, and dealing with the pressure. But what I was talking about is the fact that in any run, the more racks you go into, the wider the range of problems you have to face and the deeper your knowledge has to be. That includes going into the stack and coming out with a shot, breaking up secondary clusters and coming out with a shot, and bumping balls to manufacture break balls and coming out with a shot, to say nothing of not missing and playing position on hundreds of balls.

That's why almost anyone can get up and run a couple of racks. After that, they start run out of knowledge and skill. It's the same for the pros just at a higher level, particularly since they haven't accumulated a lifetime of 14.1 knowledge. The longer the run the more likely it is that a shot and/or position play will come up that they don't have the knowledge for and will miss, or not leave themselves a play for a break ball, or get stuck on the rack or scratch, or have some other misfortune end the run. Everybody runs out of luck and/or skill sooner or later.

For just about everybody except one guy that point appears to be somewhere below 526 balls.

Lou Figueroa
 
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I lived in Paducah Kentucky and played in the same pool room that Buddy Hall played in almost daily.

IMO, there is nobody that controls the cueball better than Buddy, ever. Many folks say he was the best 9 ball player ever, (ive seen him play banks incredible). HOF player, you name it.

I asked him what his high run playing straight pool. Any guesses?

He said less than 100, he said he never played the game, he was looking to gamble and guys that played 14.1 never played for money.

Just because someone is a great pool player, it doesnt mean that they could break the 526 record.

I wish Schmidt or Harriman would chime in.

Ken
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think that a 50% or maybe even a 70% shot was considered too risky. That's understandable when the player is 99% or more on average -- the cut all the way along the long rail is scary. But unless there is a safe to play that is guaranteed to be very hard to get out of, I think you should try for the 51% shots since if you go into a safe sequence you are arguably only 50% to get the upper hand, assuming a good match.

I think most of the players today will shoot at the 50% shots when it's all they have to start or continue the run.
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Do you recall the format of the long 1000 (or more?) ball challenge matches? Did they play in blocks of 200 or so points, or just keep one large tally going? I know I've seen it around somewhere...
 
Dan White said:
Do you recall the format of the long 1000 (or more?) ball challenge matches? Did they play in blocks of 200 or so points, or just keep one large tally going? I know I've seen it around somewhere...
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The length of the block varied as did the length of the game. Charlie Ursitti's info shows some of the long matches and Mr. Bond may have some details. I believe that after the end of a block was reached the balls would be run to a break shot and the positions marked. The match would resume from the marked position. In theory a player could run out from the break.

If a player was trailing 300-100 at the start of a 150-point block, I think he could run to 450 in that session and continue in the next.

I never saw a match in blocks so I can't be sure what was actually done.
 
His record still stands to this day for a good reason. Size of the pockets had no part of the reason he was so successful. He played mostly on as 10" table, it gave them more room to move the balls around. He usually played half a table because he had the best cue control there was.

He shot tons of combinations because his aim was so perfect he could do it on demand, shooting combos regularly is more challenging than tight pockets.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The length of the block varied as did the length of the game. Charlie Ursitti's info shows some of the long matches and Mr. Bond may have some details. I believe that after the end of a block was reached the balls would be run to a break shot and the positions marked. The match would resume from the marked position. In theory a player could run out from the break.

If a player was trailing 300-100 at the start of a 150-point block, I think he could run to 450 in that session and continue in the next.

I never saw a match in blocks so I can't be sure what was actually done.
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Thanks for the reply!
 
Jedivman said:
His record still stands to this day for a good reason. Size of the pockets had no part of the reason he was so successful. He played mostly on as 10" table, it gave them more room to move the balls around. He usually played half a table because he had the best cue control there was.

He shot tons of combinations because his aim was so perfect he could do it on demand, shooting combos regularly is more challenging than tight pockets.
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If his cue ball was so good, why did he have to shoot so many combos?:scratchhead:
 
easy-e said:
If his cue ball was so good, why did he have to shoot so many combos?:scratchhead:
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On his instructional video he runs a few balls. After breaking the balls, I believe he proceeds to pocket 3 combos in a row. Not necessarily difficult ones, but you gotta take what the table gives you in order to get started.
 
This thread....

Just makes me want to start practicing 14.1 more!!!!

As to the OP query.....

TD
 
easy-e said:
If his cue ball was so good, why did he have to shoot so many combos?:scratchhead:
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From a lackluster straight pool player.... I'd have to say
'Because it was the right shot'.... but what do I know...

TD
 
Watching orcullo play 1p and running 6-14 balls about as often as I put a fork in my mouth...

He shot more than a few combos in lieu of free balls, to gobble mor apples than one would have thought he was gonna get.
 
High runs

Check out Dallas West high runs at state and madison in Rockford Ill. 100 on 9 different tables back to back.The MIZZ thought 526 was unbelievable.
 
Dan White said:
Do you recall the format of the long 1000 (or more?) ball challenge matches? Did they play in blocks of 200 or so points, or just keep one large tally going? I know I've seen it around somewhere...
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They tried different parameters over the years. I believe there were 3 or 4 different versions just in the 1940s alone.

For example they might battle for 900 pts over 3 days with 2 matches to 150 each day.
Or they might battle for 1250 pts over 5 days with 2 matches to 125 each day.

Prizes were also given for high runs and best matches etc. ( incentive for high runs)

Typically your day's points were added to your existing score at the end of each day. (you might not need to win the last match to win the title )

Also, even though a match might only be to 125, if you had a " run" going, sometimes they would let you finish it , to be added to your score. Sometimes they cut you off and called it an "unfinished run" for the win. ( which Mosconi frequently did)

Hope that helps
 
Mosconi was a great player! His cue ball control was near perfection and his knowledge of the pack the best in the game (Only Caras may have understood playing the pack like Willie). Mosconi was one of the most intense pool players I ever saw. You can read that as a way of saying he had superior concentration, never letting anything distract him from his task. Even a small position error was enough to cause him to get very irritated. The only players I ever saw who demanded as much of themselves were Lassiter and Gene Nagy (who nearly lost his mind behind his obsession). Heaven forbid someone made a noise or lit a cigarette while he was shooting. OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

He definitely could be an ass, demanding perfection from those he dealt with. He wanted to play on a table in perfect condition and the room set-up had to be to his liking as well. He did in fact carry his own set of balls to exhibitions (of course not in tourneys although he would have a say in what balls were used). He could be short and abrupt with his fans, especially if he felt they were asking him stupid questions. In other words you could say he was somewhat of a prima-donna, but people still wanted to see him play. He was a legend after all. Kind of like the Earl Strickland syndrome.

He had few close friends, only acquaintances who were there for a purpose. I was his fodder in an exhibition match once and assisted him a few times during his trick shot shows. He put up with me and was fairly cordial since I was providing a service to him and doing it correctly. He actually allowed me to tape an hour long interview prior to the Mosconi Open we held at Hard Times in the early 90's. To my utter disappointment, we discovered afterwards that the camera man forgot to charge the batteries and the tape did not record. One of the biggest disappointments of my Pool life.

As for his record run, there is a good reason that no one has surpassed it yet after 60+ years. It's damn hard to run that many balls without getting tied up against a ball or behind the pack. I don't care who you are or how good you play. I don't believe it's a matter of how much Straight Pool is played today or anything else like that. If anything it may be easier to run balls on today's equipment. Mosconi was playing on slow cloth with pre-Aramith balls. Perhaps some day someone will break his record and when that day comes I would celebrate the greatest Straight Pool player who ever lived, that set such a high bar for others to aspire too.
 
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easy-e said:
If his cue ball was so good, why did he have to shoot so many combos?:scratchhead:
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Busting out clusters, making shots you generally could not make. You could fire carom shots one after another dead in the jaws all day. He played st a level no one will ever match, in his sport.
 
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