In the old days, it seemed that more players Shot out of an upright stance. Today, and recently, Players seem to put their Chin down on the Cue, or close to it. Top Players from Europe and Asia seem to bend over farther in their stances, and many seem to have surpassed the Americans on the World Stage. Should you put your Chin down on your Cue, or do what is comfortable for you?
Should your Chin be on the Stick, or what's comfortable for you?
- Thread starter LeftyIke
- Start date
Modern players would easily beat all greats on modern tables.
The old greats would likely beat modern players on old tables, with old balls etc.
However as with most sports, techniques evolve and almost without exception, modern methods are more scientific and allow execution with less risk.
That doesn't mean the players necessarily have more natural talent, merely that techniques have moved on and allows people to make the most of their natural ability.
I believe the lower stance originated in Europe and the east due to Snooker. Bigger tables, smaller balls. The lower stance and open bridges lend themselves for better aiming. We Muricans simply noticed and adopted. I was taught by my father and grandfather, and have a more upright stance.
Josh
Josh
I was genuinely suprised at how easy and comfortable it is to go all the way down to chin rest on the cue once I stopped putting a foot forward and instead stood square to the line of the shot and just bent forwsrd. It took a little getting used to but it changed my game for the better. Aiming consistency improved for me quite dramatically. Left-handed aiming became consistently better as well.
Look at Carlo Biado who is the reigning world 9b champion - he puts his chin down on the cue for longer straight shots but the bigger the angle of the shot is the more upright stance Carlo uses. You can use both and still be the best
It must be nice to be young and agile enough to put one's chin on the cue stick when aiming. You'd have to cut my spine with a chainsaw and break my neck backwards for me to be able to do that.
I wish I could do it though. Obviously, I stand a bit more erect and have to use more bend than usual in my legs to get down low enough for decent aiming.
Maniac
I wish I could do it though. Obviously, I stand a bit more erect and have to use more bend than usual in my legs to get down low enough for decent aiming.
Maniac
I'm not an instructor and maybe some of our instructors on the forum here can comment on this, but placing your chin all the way down cue can potentially lead to some stroking issues - keeping your head stationary and limiting your follow-through. First, unless you keep your cue absolutely parallel with the table surface throughout the backstroke, your head will likely have to come up some during your backstroke.
Even more of an issue, through the contact zone and follow-through, unless you have a Ronnie O'Sullivan like elbow drop stroke, where your cue stays absolutely level and parallel with the table throughout your follow through, if you have a classic pendulum stroke maintaining a relatively stationary elbow throughout your entire stroke, your head will have no choice but to rise up past the contact point as your cue follows through the cue ball - as your grip hand and the butt of your cue rises up towards your chest and the tip of your cue stays down through the ball on the cloth.
We all know keeping your head still throughout the entire stroke is absolutely crucial for accuracy, as is having a full follow through on your stroke.
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I've been experimenting with this recently. I used to stand very upright, partly because that's how I learned and partly because of some weight issues. I've lost a bit of weight and can now comfortably get my chin all the way down to the shaft. That being said, I don't see the line very well or stroke very well all the way down, it seems what is optimal for me is my chin 6-8 inches above the shaft. And as suggested by other folks, I think this is different for every person: find the distance that best allows you to see the line and stroke properly.
I have found that keeping your eyes still is just as important as your head.
Look at Carlo Biado who is the reigning world 9b champion - he puts his chin down on the cue for longer straight shots but the bigger the angle of the shot is the more upright stance Carlo uses. You can use both and still be the best
And that is my answer also!
randyg
Father time does have a way of telling us that we aren't as young as we would like to believe.
Or, to quote Dirty Harry: "A man's got to know his limitations."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0
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There are definitely advantages to having the chin on the cue and using an open bridge, assuming you can get in that position with comfort and stability. For more info, see:
advantages of a low stance
advantages of an open bridge
Enjoy,
Dave
Wow. I might nominate this thread for best of the year. I just read every comment and each one has been positive, on topic, and helpful. Great job people!!!
I used to get my head down lower I think. I've gone to a more square snooker type stance over the last few years. In some ways my accuracy is better, though I find that if I keep my back leg straight, it's better for consistency but tougher to get my head down really low. I should mention that I'm almost 6'3". I'm reasonably slim and semi athletic, but I still feel a pronounced stretch in my left hamstring when bending into position. I've found that keeping my back straight and ideally flat works better for me. It keeps my head and face in a better orientation to the shot. If I get lazy and my back curls over more, I have to really cock my head way back to even see the object ball. This often leads me (through laziness) to just not bend down as far.
I'm gonna work on this today before the tourney.
Great topic!
KMRUNOUT
Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
I used to get my head down lower I think. I've gone to a more square snooker type stance over the last few years. In some ways my accuracy is better, though I find that if I keep my back leg straight, it's better for consistency but tougher to get my head down really low. I should mention that I'm almost 6'3". I'm reasonably slim and semi athletic, but I still feel a pronounced stretch in my left hamstring when bending into position. I've found that keeping my back straight and ideally flat works better for me. It keeps my head and face in a better orientation to the shot. If I get lazy and my back curls over more, I have to really cock my head way back to even see the object ball. This often leads me (through laziness) to just not bend down as far.
I'm gonna work on this today before the tourney.
Great topic!
KMRUNOUT
Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
To add another variable, for players who play pool with glasses like myself, on a table length shot, it's virtually impossible to get your chin/head down right on the cue and still be able to see both the object ball down the table and the cue ball, without having to bob your head up and down.
Actually and usually, most shots I've seen don't require massive amounts of speed/force. A good nice easy follow through is not hindered by the chin as you are not pressing down on the cue.
As such, when you stroke, the chin does not really limit you or make you or your chin wobble up.
It's just relaxed contact serving as reference point for sighting and stroking.
Also, having the chin on the cue will encourage you to stroke extremely parallel to the table - a big plus usually.
For me nothing is more horrible than the wobbly strokes we see with for example van Boening. Seems also related to the taper of the shafts.
On power shots the contact point of the tip to the CB should be when your arm is at the lowest dead point (+- a bit) and then your arm will complete the circle upwards again for the full follow through. The follow through will end by your hand touching your chest.
Video(s) might be better than explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxPAhlLOqg0#t=1m15s
Watch for different players and different approaches.
Also moving to a more parallel foot stance helps, too.
From personal experience for a casual player (once a week) using chin contact helped greatly reducing the time needed for "getting used to it all again" and improving long pot chances, reducing unwanted side spin too.
Cheers,
M
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Yep...and I know this firsthand.
Maniac (didn't I mention I was semi-blind too :grin
There are special shooting glasses that allow chin-to-cue contact.
Since film of the ‘greats’ playing when still young is likely rare, the gradual/creeping effect of advancing osteoarthritis probably forcing a more upright stance over time would be hard to demonstrate.