LoL
In my experience some people don't like to admit when they have been had, so they look for any silver lining possible(e.g. cue playability).
The story behind the Jackot cues
- Thread starter deanoc
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LoL
In my experience some people don't like to admit when they have been had, so they look for any silver lining possible(e.g. cue playability).
Let’s save some of this venom for that rail steeling lying bum of a thief who’s plan is to save pool by robbing folks just one at a time.
At least with Jackpot you got something for your money. Clearly there was deception involved from the very beginning but at least you weren’t completely robbed. For the folks who like the cue they bought, good for you. I hope you enjoy the hell out of it. (And hopefully at a poolroom again real soon!) $500 isn’t diddly squat for something that gives pleasure. For those folks who don’t like the cue they ordered or it’s perceived value just send the thing back and get a refund. I would think Dean would be willing to do that from what I’ve read, if he won’t give a refund after this new information of the builder has come out then he and this Jack guy are crooks. And for those of you that started your reply with “I didn’t order a cue but....”, well this is an open forum and your opinion matters too, just not as much as the people who bought the cues. Still important though, just like railbirds at a money match. I noticed the AZ house pro has a pretty good handle of the situation and out of all the people who didn’t buy one of these cues it’s only his opinion that really matters. I would imagine he has spoken privately with Dean and expectations going forward will be very clear. So hopefully we can move past this situation and concentrate on more important issues.
Like these two issues that came up in this thread- first of all, someone mentioned there’s no way a cue should be worth $1500. Totally wrong here. Precise artistic craftsmanship comes at a cost. From me the cost is next to nothing, but from Randy Mobley who made my custom cue it is significantly more. And judging by his wait list people find a value with him. I paid more than $1500 for mine, been offered twice that much for it and don’t ever plan on selling it for any amount. I have all but one of the cues I’ve ever owned and still only play with this Mobley, I just really like it. And if someone can find that same “like” with a less expensive cue, then rock on- you win. But that still doesn’t mean that some artists aren’t more valuable than others thereby making some cues worth the extra money.
And secondly, the guy who brought fishing into this needs to get funny farmed. Full on Chevy Chased.
At least with Jackpot you got something for your money. Clearly there was deception involved from the very beginning but at least you weren’t completely robbed. For the folks who like the cue they bought, good for you. I hope you enjoy the hell out of it. (And hopefully at a poolroom again real soon!) $500 isn’t diddly squat for something that gives pleasure. For those folks who don’t like the cue they ordered or it’s perceived value just send the thing back and get a refund. I would think Dean would be willing to do that from what I’ve read, if he won’t give a refund after this new information of the builder has come out then he and this Jack guy are crooks. And for those of you that started your reply with “I didn’t order a cue but....”, well this is an open forum and your opinion matters too, just not as much as the people who bought the cues. Still important though, just like railbirds at a money match. I noticed the AZ house pro has a pretty good handle of the situation and out of all the people who didn’t buy one of these cues it’s only his opinion that really matters. I would imagine he has spoken privately with Dean and expectations going forward will be very clear. So hopefully we can move past this situation and concentrate on more important issues.
Like these two issues that came up in this thread- first of all, someone mentioned there’s no way a cue should be worth $1500. Totally wrong here. Precise artistic craftsmanship comes at a cost. From me the cost is next to nothing, but from Randy Mobley who made my custom cue it is significantly more. And judging by his wait list people find a value with him. I paid more than $1500 for mine, been offered twice that much for it and don’t ever plan on selling it for any amount. I have all but one of the cues I’ve ever owned and still only play with this Mobley, I just really like it. And if someone can find that same “like” with a less expensive cue, then rock on- you win. But that still doesn’t mean that some artists aren’t more valuable than others thereby making some cues worth the extra money.
And secondly, the guy who brought fishing into this needs to get funny farmed. Full on Chevy Chased.
whether the Jackpot cues play well is not relevant to the central issue so why waste so much time and energy debating that?
The main issue is whether or not Dean lied/misrepresented/deceived his customers during his overzealous marketing campaign here on azb. I think it's been established that yes he did. There are referenced quotes in this thread from Dean where he stated that Jack Potter was making the cues and Dean knew that was not the case.
Not too long ago I ordered a Schmelke custom cue and worked directly with David Schmelke. It was a total pleasure and I would quickly reject any suggestion that he or his company would be complicit it any deception effort. That doesn't even make sense.
For price comparison, the cue I ordered was a custom bushka design with swirly acrylic, a veneered ebony and clear maple blank, and two shafts. I specified the tapers, which tips, the ferrule material, and weights. I even had him use thick nickel rings. Also, David provided me with his premium shafts. We joked about the cue, calling it a Schmelabushka. I think the cue came out great. The only thing I would do different is the linen wrap - they didn't have anything better in house but what an easy fix that is. All of this for $340. :thumbup:
Imagine ole Deano on the phone with Schmelke ordering "a batch" of merry widows and negotiating the price. Did he even pay a c-note each? If he was up front with everyone, what he paid wouldn't have mattered at all, imo. With all of the blanks about this deal slowly getting filled in, it sure makes him look bad.
One last thing. Being told by HawaiianEye that "If y'all didn't get a Jackpot, you should quit yapping about them". makes me think he still doesn't get the point. I like you Hawaiian but please open your eyes; there's a bit more to this than whether the cues play good.
best,
brian kc
You have to go to post #218 to see the pictures of what was ordered.
Wow. $340.00
Wow.
If this doesn’t show that everyone got screwed paying $500 or $600 with the 3rd shaft for a “jackpot” cue...nothing will.
All they did was donate 300 or 400 dollars and had no control on what they got.
But people basically like being told what to do and having no input. All this is a perfect example. I know some were hoping for a $1500-$2000 cue for $500 from Dean knowing his reputation but they got a $150 cue for $500. ��
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whether the Jackpot cues play well is not relevant to the central issue so why waste so much time and energy debating that?
The main issue is whether or not Dean lied/misrepresented/deceived his customers during his overzealous marketing campaign here on azb. I think it's been established that yes he did. There are referenced quotes in this thread from Dean where he stated that Jack Potter was making the cues and Dean knew that was not the case.
Not too long ago I ordered a Schmelke custom cue and worked directly with David Schmelke. It was a total pleasure and I would quickly reject any suggestion that he or his company would be complicit it any deception effort. That doesn't even make sense.
For price comparison, the cue I ordered was a custom bushka design with swirly acrylic, a veneered ebony and clear maple blank, and two shafts. I specified the tapers, which tips, the ferrule material, and weights. I even had him use thick nickel rings. Also, David provided me with his premium shafts. We joked about the cue, calling it a Schmelabushka. I think the cue came out great. The only thing I would do different is the linen wrap - they didn't have anything better in house but what an easy fix that is. All of this for $340. :thumbup:
Imagine ole Deano on the phone with Schmelke ordering "a batch" of merry widows and negotiating the price. Did he even pay a c-note each? If he was up front with everyone, what he paid wouldn't have mattered at all, imo. With all of the blanks about this deal slowly getting filled in, it sure makes him look bad.
One last thing. Being told by HawaiianEye that "If y'all didn't get a Jackpot, you should quit yapping about them". makes me think he still doesn't get the point. I like you Hawaiian but please open your eyes; there's a bit more to this than whether the cues play good.
best,
brian kc
Ice looking cue for sure.
Read my thread again.
Not once was Schmelke mentioned until my post #36 on page 3, where I said that Schmelke built it. That was after the cue was done and I'd already played with it.
You like to stir pots when you are not even the cook or in the kitchen.
I don't waltz in anywhere. I walk in, and people like you scatter.
I was specifically referring to insults to Hawaiian Eye, not Deano.
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The world is in the throes of a pandemic, economies will crash, and economic hardships will be felt all over the globe,and you guys are all in a tizzy over a few 500 dollar cue sticks. Unbelieveable.
Not the $$. The old fart flat out lied. End of story. I can't believe anyone would defend it.
ironed wrap
Brian,
I don't know the material used for the wrap, maybe it couldn't be ironed? Your close-ups seem to indicate it hasn't been. Ironing is a multi-step process that creates a lot of heat after applying laundry "sizing" similar to starch and usually put into new clothes to help them maintain size and shape.
Ironing a cue builds a lot of heat through friction. Might not have been possible very near or slightly over the plastic portion of the buttcap. A pressed linen wrap would look and feel a bit nicer I believe. It is a labor intensive process and perhaps something not done to any Schmelke cues, I don't know.
Hu
Brian,
I don't know the material used for the wrap, maybe it couldn't be ironed? Your close-ups seem to indicate it hasn't been. Ironing is a multi-step process that creates a lot of heat after applying laundry "sizing" similar to starch and usually put into new clothes to help them maintain size and shape.
Ironing a cue builds a lot of heat through friction. Might not have been possible very near or slightly over the plastic portion of the buttcap. A pressed linen wrap would look and feel a bit nicer I believe. It is a labor intensive process and perhaps something not done to any Schmelke cues, I don't know.
Hu
whether the Jackpot cues play well is not relevant to the central issue so why waste so much time and energy debating that?
The main issue is whether or not Dean lied/misrepresented/deceived his customers during his overzealous marketing campaign here on azb. I think it's been established that yes he did. There are referenced quotes in this thread from Dean where he stated that Jack Potter was making the cues and Dean knew that was not the case.
Not too long ago I ordered a Schmelke custom cue and worked directly with David Schmelke. It was a total pleasure and I would quickly reject any suggestion that he or his company would be complicit it any deception effort. That doesn't even make sense.
For price comparison, the cue I ordered was a custom bushka design with swirly acrylic, a veneered ebony and clear maple blank, and two shafts. I specified the tapers, which tips, the ferrule material, and weights. I even had him use thick nickel rings. Also, David provided me with his premium shafts. We joked about the cue, calling it a Schmelabushka. I think the cue came out great. The only thing I would do different is the linen wrap - they didn't have anything better in house but what an easy fix that is. All of this for $340. :thumbup:
Imagine ole Deano on the phone with Schmelke ordering "a batch" of merry widows and negotiating the price. Did he even pay a c-note each? If he was up front with everyone, what he paid wouldn't have mattered at all, imo. With all of the blanks about this deal slowly getting filled in, it sure makes him look bad.
One last thing. Being told by HawaiianEye that "If y'all didn't get a Jackpot, you should quit yapping about them". makes me think he still doesn't get the point. I like you Hawaiian but please open your eyes; there's a bit more to this than whether the cues play good.
best,
brian kc
what mods? they put together the cue like they always do, they finish the cue like they always do. you can as for a thicker or thinner cue, you can ask for a longer or shorter taper, but its a schmelke cue. they do nothing revolutionary, they build a good custom cue for a very very good price but they don't use shaft wood that is flawless, their shafts come with discolorations, changes nothing in playability just looks, their finish isn't flawless and on and on. its a cue for someone that plays pool. im sure they can built an expensive cue, use fancy wood, pay attention to details they normally wouldn't, better quality finishing product. but that's not who they are, they do it quick, use what they have in stock that they get for a good price and they pass on those savings to you. schmelke makes a great cue, for the money and customability, they make the best cue money can buy.
The last sentence is laughable.
costs vs value
Cue prices are artificially suppressed by hobbyists in their backyard. Typical shop rates for people with far less skills or equipment run $100-$150 an hour. There isn't a custom cue made that doesn't have fifteen or twenty hours in it. Hurricanes put the final nail in the coffin of my cue shop but the truth is I wasn't too interested anyway. My shop was next door to my friend's machine shop. I could walk next door any day I pleased and make a lot more money than I could making cues with no wait for my money and no hassle dealing with the public.
No hours wasted on the phone with tire kickers and people "just calling to check how their cue is coming" when in truth they are just bored and in the mood to chat. Fine for them if they have the time but I think average phone time for every cue built is about two hours. When you are talking on the phone to a cue builder bear in mind that while you are talking the machines aren't running and no progress is made on any cue. A moderately busy shop has a couple dozen more customers too. When you wonder why it is taking so long to get your cue made, besides time between steps, time spent dealing with customers is often an unaccounted for hole in production.
There not only are $1500 cues, there should be damned few that aren't fifteen hundred dollars or more. People are building quality cues for less than five hundred dollars, many are building them for less than a thousand. Those are some of the best deals on the planet!
A cue should sell for time, materials, and a consideration for artistry involved. Do the math for time and materials and then add fifty to one hundred percent for artistic abilities. That is a fair price for a cue. A person that has built a name might be able to add three to ten times time and material to the cost of a cue. Look at what other usable art is going for.
A few people selling equipment for building cues led me down the garden path or I never would have gotten involved with cues. My equipment has been gathering dust for years. If and when I drag it out I will repurpose it for something besides cue building other than one I plan for myself. At the rates good builders work for I might just have someone build that one.
Hu
Cue prices are artificially suppressed by hobbyists in their backyard. Typical shop rates for people with far less skills or equipment run $100-$150 an hour. There isn't a custom cue made that doesn't have fifteen or twenty hours in it. Hurricanes put the final nail in the coffin of my cue shop but the truth is I wasn't too interested anyway. My shop was next door to my friend's machine shop. I could walk next door any day I pleased and make a lot more money than I could making cues with no wait for my money and no hassle dealing with the public.
No hours wasted on the phone with tire kickers and people "just calling to check how their cue is coming" when in truth they are just bored and in the mood to chat. Fine for them if they have the time but I think average phone time for every cue built is about two hours. When you are talking on the phone to a cue builder bear in mind that while you are talking the machines aren't running and no progress is made on any cue. A moderately busy shop has a couple dozen more customers too. When you wonder why it is taking so long to get your cue made, besides time between steps, time spent dealing with customers is often an unaccounted for hole in production.
There not only are $1500 cues, there should be damned few that aren't fifteen hundred dollars or more. People are building quality cues for less than five hundred dollars, many are building them for less than a thousand. Those are some of the best deals on the planet!
A cue should sell for time, materials, and a consideration for artistry involved. Do the math for time and materials and then add fifty to one hundred percent for artistic abilities. That is a fair price for a cue. A person that has built a name might be able to add three to ten times time and material to the cost of a cue. Look at what other usable art is going for.
A few people selling equipment for building cues led me down the garden path or I never would have gotten involved with cues. My equipment has been gathering dust for years. If and when I drag it out I will repurpose it for something besides cue building other than one I plan for myself. At the rates good builders work for I might just have someone build that one.
Hu
With enough attention to this particular case, remembering the story of someone selling a $200 stick for $500 won't help honest craftsmen in the long run.
This whole ordeal was a shame, but maybe for the sake of other legitimate makers, update your blacklist and let this one go.
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Frankly, until you insulted me, I hadn't paid much attention to your drivel.
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so you go to the fair. and say shoot those baskets trying to win a big teddy bear.
you blow through 20 bucks and walk away. then i told you the rim wasnt regular height and the ball was overinflated and thats why you lost. most knew something had to be fixed its the fair right. but now that they know they were duped they then will say but it is only 20 bucks and it was worth the fun.
you blow through 20 bucks and walk away. then i told you the rim wasnt regular height and the ball was overinflated and thats why you lost. most knew something had to be fixed its the fair right. but now that they know they were duped they then will say but it is only 20 bucks and it was worth the fun.
Didn't intend to insult. It was just a commentary on the course of the thread.
Sent from the future.
HUH???????????? What are you trying to say? Anyone with half a brain knows fair games are rigged. How does lying to sell a product compare here?
OK, thank you. I was not happy with people insulting Jim (Hawaiian Eye) - he doesn't deserve it. Dean does deserves it and brought all this on himself. He inflamed the fire by explaining in full his misdeed.
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