No safeties in nine ball

No longer does simply putting a blocking ball between the cue ball and an object ball qualify as "safe".

Too many people think that it does…

In my experience the people who most dislike jump cues, simply don't jump very well.

People need to play better safeties, and learn to jump. They'll be better pool players as a result.
Personally as a player, I'd much rather spend the money and have a third shaft taking up space in my case, just in case. :)

The extra cost and equipment needs was not invented by pool players, it was most likely invented by a cuemaker or a vendor to make money with left over wood/materials.
The Jumper, was Not created to improve the game.
Watching 3 cushion billiards is amazing at times.
A nine ball game with great kicking board play gives the sport the Ef-reness' that's needed.
Like great chess players. I've put players intentionally in a comfortable kick situation, when in reality, it's exactly what I wanted, a great kick/back.
 
I have a foolproof way and have been calling for this game for a long while:

Ball in hand to the other guy if you miss. Pros need to play with all 15 balls.

they are good enough to run out all the way. Not just to 9 or 10.
We had this 20 some years ago at our weekly 9 ball tournament. I think the room owner called it "run-out 9 ball". I remember playing in it a few times, but can't recall if we all liked it or not. I think the tournament attendance (of regular 9 ball) was dwindling, and the owner was trying something new. For the life of me I can't remember if it helped or hurt attendance, and how many weeks he tried it. I never saw it before or after.
 
Imagine the amazing shots we would see, if there was no ducking?
Yeah. It'd be the early 80's, and everybody but the Filipinos would be playing like morons, but they would look really cool whilst shooting like morons!

There's a reason why even moderately skilled players wipe the floor with the local who can make any ball on the table, but can't play position for shiite. Because sometimes you simply cannot physically get to the next ball if you try to pocket the current ball.

And for me, seeing a well-executed safe is just as pleasing as seeing someone shoot a circus shot with a low percentage success rate. I don't like watching people shoot dumb shots. And shooting a ball when the odds of success are low, is just dumb.
 
in the 60s, it was a feeding frenzy in the Carolinas…..no safeties, no ducking.
The best part about pool in North Carolina in the 60's was that they didn't have the one foot on the floor rule.
 
We had this 20 some years ago at our weekly 9 ball tournament. I think the room owner called it "run-out 9 ball". I remember playing in it a few times, but can't recall if we all liked it or not. I think the tournament attendance (of regular 9 ball) was dwindling, and the owner was trying something new. For the life of me I can't remember if it helped or hurt attendance, and how many weeks he tried it. I never saw it before or after.
It never caught on, but when the game room at Purdue University outlawed 9 ball at one point in the 70's, we'd get around it by using a full rack, running the first 6 balls (any 6 of the 15, your choice) in random order, and then running the remaining 9 balls in numerical order as if it were 9 ball, only in this case the "9 ball" may have wound up being the the 14 ball. It was a great game for various strategies, like clearing the 14 and 15 balls off the table if the 13 was sitting in a pocket, and then once the first 6 balls were off the table, setting yourself up for an easy combination on the winning 13.
 
The extra cost and equipment needs was not invented by pool players, it was most likely invented by a cuemaker or a vendor to make money with left over wood/materials.

Nope. Sorry, but you're wrong.

Back in the day, people learned to jump with a simple wooden dowel or just a shaft with no butt as an improvement over using an actual play cue.

Actual dedicated jump cues evolved from those early work arounds...
 
I played pool in N Carolina in the 60s , it was a block building outside Fort Bragg, I think it was on Murcheson Road , there was also a small room across the street from where I lived right off Bragg Blvd.
 
Nope. Sorry, but you're wrong.

Back in the day, people learned to jump with a simple wooden dowel or just a shaft with no butt as an improvement over using an actual play cue.

Actual dedicated jump cues evolved from those early work arounds...
I have told this story before, but I knew a card mechanic in 1967, that could jump a full ball from a handbreadth away with his normal cue make a ball 6 inches from the corner pocket at the other end of an eight foot table and draw straight back the length of the table to the head rail.
He owned the poolroom and I am sure he could have done it on a nine footer he just didn't have one. I once asked him why he didn't play pool for money and he said he couldn't afford the pay cut lol.
 
Bangers? What do sausages have to do with pool ?
Whatever happens is ok by me , I won't be here that much longer anyway and it barely matters now. But for you young guys , when pickle Ball and cornhole have bigger crowds and prizes and more people playing every day, While pool rooms are closing all over the country and few new ones being opened, it takes a fanatical optimist, to think something doesn't need to change. Maybe my answer isn't the correct one , but staying the same has not been working for 75 years , go ahead and see how that works out for you.
Your problem is you don't get the basic 'reason" why pool is failing. And as such, you are wanting to try things that have absolutely nothing to do with WHY fewer people are playing/watching pool these days. I have commented before about how fruitless it is to attempt to fix a problem before you "know" what the exact problem is.

The short version is... Almost all competitive games require aggressive, competitive youngsters to replace the ranks of the aging competitors. These are mostly male, as males tend to start producing higher levels of testosterone at a certain age, which brings a numbers of behaviors to bear, one of those being competitiveness, and a desire to "gain territory". Just like all other mammal males. This basic mammalian drive is what produces competitors for ALL sports/games.

THEREFORE... See all games/sports as competing for young talent. Pre-1995 or so... Not much to do for young males, and commercial lease rates were still low enough to make opening a pool hall affordable. Pool could still pull young males at this time, because there just wasn't a whole lot else to do.

THEN.... Came the competitive video game revolution. The same basic skills are needed for pool and video games.. Muscle memory, hand-eye coordination.. AND, the young males can now just buy a PC or gaming console, and can practice 8 hours a day in the summer if they want.

So... Aspire to be a competitive gamer, and have no more than about $2K cost outlay + monthly fees if on console, and that's it.

OR, get into pool as a teen male. and struggle to find a pool hall that will let you in (not likely, as it is pretty much mandatory to have a liquor license these day to run a successful billiards establishment...), or shell out $8K plus, AND the cost of a house big enough to fit, a tournament quality 9 foot table.

So, there it is. Pool is not failing because random people are just hungering to see MOAR SHOTS, and if only we would show them MOAR SHOTS, then they would all of a sudden just love pool to death, and create another resurgence in the game.. Pool is failing because other competitive games/sports are cannibalizing our young talent, because pool has simply too many barriers to getting good, as compared to competitive video gaming, and becoming social media influencers, etc. The "Color of Money" resurgence in the game was a combination of a bit of a romantic idea of being a modern day "gunslinger", combined with low commercial lease rates, and bored teenage boys with nothing better to do. As soon as something more accessible came along to compete at, combined with rising lease rates, the death knell was sounded.

Note: This is a somewhat uniquely American problem, as many European/Asian countries have economies/population density that can still support many varied competitive hobbies/games/sports.
 
Your problem is you don't get the basic 'reason" why pool is failing. And as such, you are wanting to try things that have absolutely nothing to do with WHY fewer people are playing/watching pool these days. I have commented before about how fruitless it is to attempt to fix a problem before you "know" what the exact problem is.

The short version is... Almost all competitive games require aggressive, competitive youngsters to replace the ranks of the aging competitors. These are mostly male, as males tend to start producing higher levels of testosterone at a certain age, which brings a numbers of behaviors to bear, one of those being competitiveness, and a desire to "gain territory". Just like all other mammal males. This basic mammalian drive is what produces competitors for ALL sports/games.

THEREFORE... See all games/sports as competing for young talent. Pre-1995 or so... Not much to do for young males, and commercial lease rates were still low enough to make opening a pool hall affordable. Pool could still pull young males at this time, because there just wasn't a whole lot else to do.

THEN.... Came the competitive video game revolution. The same basic skills are needed for pool and video games.. Muscle memory, hand-eye coordination.. AND, the young males can now just buy a PC or gaming console, and can practice 8 hours a day in the summer if they want.

So... Aspire to be a competitive gamer, and have no more than about $2K cost outlay + monthly fees if on console, and that's it.

OR, get into pool as a teen male. and struggle to find a pool hall that will let you in (not likely, as it is pretty much mandatory to have a liquor license these day to run a successful billiards establishment...), or shell out $8K plus, AND the cost of a house big enough to fit, a tournament quality 9 foot table.

So, there it is. Pool is not failing because random people are just hungering to see MOAR SHOTS, and if only we would show them MOAR SHOTS, then they would all of a sudden just love pool to death, and create another resurgence in the game.. Pool is failing because other competitive games/sports are cannibalizing our young talent, because pool has simply too many barriers to getting good, as compared to competitive video gaming, and becoming social media influencers, etc. The "Color of Money" resurgence in the game was a combination of a bit of a romantic idea of being a modern day "gunslinger", combined with low commercial lease rates, and bored teenage boys with nothing better to do. As soon as something more accessible came along to compete at, combined with rising lease rates, the death knell was sounded.

Note: This is a somewhat uniquely American problem, as many European/Asian countries have economies/population density that can still support many varied competitive hobbies/games/sports.
Well said. Nice to see you posting again, Russ.
 
Your problem is you don't get the basic 'reason" why pool is failing. And as such, you are wanting to try things that have absolutely nothing to do with WHY fewer people are playing/watching pool these days. I have commented before about how fruitless it is to attempt to fix a problem before you "know" what the exact problem is.

The short version is... Almost all competitive games require aggressive, competitive youngsters to replace the ranks of the aging competitors. These are mostly male, as males tend to start producing higher levels of testosterone at a certain age, which brings a numbers of behaviors to bear, one of those being competitiveness, and a desire to "gain territory". Just like all other mammal males. This basic mammalian drive is what produces competitors for ALL sports/games.

THEREFORE... See all games/sports as competing for young talent. Pre-1995 or so... Not much to do for young males, and commercial lease rates were still low enough to make opening a pool hall affordable. Pool could still pull young males at this time, because there just wasn't a whole lot else to do.

THEN.... Came the competitive video game revolution. The same basic skills are needed for pool and video games.. Muscle memory, hand-eye coordination.. AND, the young males can now just buy a PC or gaming console, and can practice 8 hours a day in the summer if they want.

So... Aspire to be a competitive gamer, and have no more than about $2K cost outlay + monthly fees if on console, and that's it.

OR, get into pool as a teen male. and struggle to find a pool hall that will let you in (not likely, as it is pretty much mandatory to have a liquor license these day to run a successful billiards establishment...), or shell out $8K plus, AND the cost of a house big enough to fit, a tournament quality 9 foot table.

So, there it is. Pool is not failing because random people are just hungering to see MOAR SHOTS, and if only we would show them MOAR SHOTS, then they would all of a sudden just love pool to death, and create another resurgence in the game.. Pool is failing because other competitive games/sports are cannibalizing our young talent, because pool has simply too many barriers to getting good, as compared to competitive video gaming, and becoming social media influencers, etc. The "Color of Money" resurgence in the game was a combination of a bit of a romantic idea of being a modern day "gunslinger", combined with low commercial lease rates, and bored teenage boys with nothing better to do. As soon as something more accessible came along to compete at, combined with rising lease rates, the death knell was sounded.

Note: This is a somewhat uniquely American problem, as many European/Asian countries have economies/population density that can still support many varied competitive hobbies/games/sports.
Wow, take a breath dude, it isn't that important.
 
Your problem is you don't get the basic 'reason" why pool is failing. And as such, you are wanting to try things that have absolutely nothing to do with WHY fewer people are playing/watching pool these days. I have commented before about how fruitless it is to attempt to fix a problem before you "know" what the exact problem is.

The short version is... Almost all competitive games require aggressive, competitive youngsters to replace the ranks of the aging competitors. These are mostly male, as males tend to start producing higher levels of testosterone at a certain age, which brings a numbers of behaviors to bear, one of those being competitiveness, and a desire to "gain territory". Just like all other mammal males. This basic mammalian drive is what produces competitors for ALL sports/games.

THEREFORE... See all games/sports as competing for young talent. Pre-1995 or so... Not much to do for young males, and commercial lease rates were still low enough to make opening a pool hall affordable. Pool could still pull young males at this time, because there just wasn't a whole lot else to do.

THEN.... Came the competitive video game revolution. The same basic skills are needed for pool and video games.. Muscle memory, hand-eye coordination.. AND, the young males can now just buy a PC or gaming console, and can practice 8 hours a day in the summer if they want.

So... Aspire to be a competitive gamer, and have no more than about $2K cost outlay + monthly fees if on console, and that's it.

OR, get into pool as a teen male. and struggle to find a pool hall that will let you in (not likely, as it is pretty much mandatory to have a liquor license these day to run a successful billiards establishment...), or shell out $8K plus, AND the cost of a house big enough to fit, a tournament quality 9 foot table.

So, there it is. Pool is not failing because random people are just hungering to see MOAR SHOTS, and if only we would show them MOAR SHOTS, then they would all of a sudden just love pool to death, and create another resurgence in the game.. Pool is failing because other competitive games/sports are cannibalizing our young talent, because pool has simply too many barriers to getting good, as compared to competitive video gaming, and becoming social media influencers, etc. The "Color of Money" resurgence in the game was a combination of a bit of a romantic idea of being a modern day "gunslinger", combined with low commercial lease rates, and bored teenage boys with nothing better to do. As soon as something more accessible came along to compete at, combined with rising lease rates, the death knell was sounded.

Note: This is a somewhat uniquely American problem, as many European/Asian countries have economies/population density that can still support many varied competitive hobbies/games/sports.
While I agree with some of what you've said, having a liquor license has little to nothing to do with the ability for younger players play in a pool hall in most of the United States...

Many, if not most jurisdictions allow minors to enter places with liquor licenses as long as they are not served alcohol
 
While I agree with some of what you've said, having a liquor license has absolutely nothing to do with the ability for younger players play in a pool hall in most, if not all of the United States...

I'm not aware of a single place where there is a prohibition against minors entering an establishment with a liquor license. Of course, they can't be served alcohol...
I came up in the game in Washington state, and it was pretty much a universal rule everywhere I went that you had to be 21 if the business was a bar/pool hall, and served alcohol. I got kicked out of a bar in the middle of a tournament with $2 in my wallet as I was getting down to the meat end of the tourney, when someone figured out I was 19. Funnily enough, it happened to be a guy I beat in the last round or two. I had no car, and I was lucky enough to hitch a ride back to the base.

That was in 1995 time frame. I took my son to a pool tournament in WA around 2019, and that was still the rule.

Note: I just looked it up, and there are 8 states where a minor's contact with alcohol is "forbidden in all circumstances, and minor is expressedly disallowed from bars". WA is one of those states. Another 6 states have a "family exception", but the minors still cannot be in a bar.

Followup note: Of the 8 states that 100% disallow minors in bars/other establishments serving alcohol, here are the pool "hotbeds" -

WA, FL, KY, AL.

ID and ND can be thrown in if you consider the bar table events that are held regularly there.

And this doesn't even take into consideration the municipalities that are always looking to fine local businesses on some BS or another, and the business simply takes the "safe" route, and prevents minors from coming in at all, regardless of what the law is. All it takes is for a specific state with a good pool scene to ban minors from alcohol-serving businesses, to effectively kill the pool scene there as the demographic ages. In WA, I played 8 tournaments a week when I was 21. In 2019 when I visited, there was ONE tournament for the week in the same local area, and it got about 8 players.
 
I have a foolproof way and have been calling for this game for a long while:

Ball in hand to the other guy if you miss. Pros need to play with all 15 balls.

they are good enough to run out all the way. Not just to 9 or 10.

I don't think the pros should be playing different games or rules than the normal players would in pool halls and at home. 10 ball, called shot is a good pro game, a ton of people play that across the world. 15 ball rotation, not so much. Or having ball in hand if there is a miss, that is just taking away half the game and very very few players would want to play that way with each-other. This is what I think the issue with Bonus Ball and some other attempts at making pool "more popular" was, they tried it with funky games no-one knew or cared to swap to. IPT created interest with their money and using the game that everyone knows, 8 ball. PBT did it with 9 ball. Earlier TV and tournaments used 14.1. Nothing else has worked. No need to start messing with what everyone knows.
 
Growing up in the 60 s and 70 s it was called Honest Effort. Some of the players used to get extremely upset and say dirty pool with any type of defensive strategy. Even saw some fights break out and as we called it “CRAMPING’ or I am not paying. Then came push out which was a step forward. I prefer the game as it is played today. :)
I've also heard it called "Gentleman's hit".
 
It's sad it see that pool is dying. For the first time in a few years i went to the pool hall twice in one week. The first time this week i was kicked out because of League night. When i worked in the pool hall my boss would never kick out a paying customer for a league or tournament player. The second time i left, because no one was in the hall.
 
Nope. Sorry, but you're wrong.

Back in the day, people learned to jump with a simple wooden dowel or just a shaft with no butt as an improvement over using an actual play cue.

Actual dedicated jump cues evolved from those early work arounds...
So which of the great cue makers, were the first to make jump sticks?

I do remember the concern about them being banned.

I remember for years, the back/forth about yes and no, are jumpers legal should they be allowed.

I don't care, but ''for the Game/Sport''.... personally I'd still prefer seeing a great Efren kick safe than a great jump, missed shot rolling/luck safe.
 
I've also heard it called "Gentleman's hit".
I'm sure that thinking is still around in some Manly Mens minds, that don't like being beaten by defensive play.
We have a bar league here.... in Fremont County CO that has league rules, cept one of the bars has another set of rules for their bar only.
Tons of prison guards/men in our area, with Super Max being on the top of that food chain.
There was a bar a few years ago named.... Cell Block 9.
 
I came up in the game in Washington state, and it was pretty much a universal rule everywhere I went that you had to be 21 if the business was a bar/pool hall, and served alcohol. I got kicked out of a bar in the middle of a tournament with $2 in my wallet as I was getting down to the meat end of the tourney, when someone figured out I was 19. Funnily enough, it happened to be a guy I beat in the last round or two. I had no car, and I was lucky enough to hitch a ride back to the base.

That was in 1995 time frame. I took my son to a pool tournament in WA around 2019, and that was still the rule.

Note: I just looked it up, and there are 8 states where a minor's contact with alcohol is "forbidden in all circumstances, and minor is expressedly disallowed from bars". WA is one of those states. Another 6 states have a "family exception", but the minors still cannot be in a bar.

Followup note: Of the 8 states that 100% disallow minors in bars/other establishments serving alcohol, here are the pool "hotbeds" -

WA, FL, KY, AL.

ID and ND can be thrown in if you consider the bar table events that are held regularly there.

And this doesn't even take into consideration the municipalities that are always looking to fine local businesses on some BS or another, and the business simply takes the "safe" route, and prevents minors from coming in at all, regardless of what the law is. All it takes is for a specific state with a good pool scene to ban minors from alcohol-serving businesses, to effectively kill the pool scene there as the demographic ages. In WA, I played 8 tournaments a week when I was 21. In 2019 when I visited, there was ONE tournament for the week in the same local area, and it got about 8 players.
I'm not sure where you're getting your information but it's wrong.

Florida in particular has no such prohibition.


Even if your "eight states" number was correct that still leaves 84% of the states where minors can play pool even if alcohol is served.
 
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