Pia Filler Makes History as First (and only) Female Pro on WNT

jay helfert said:
In that case, let's find out. I would suggest to you that there are already sixteen women players who can compete on even (or better) terms with the last sixteen men in the WNT ratings list.
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I think it would be interesting to take the last 16 men on the list of 128 and play a round robin tournament with the top 16 women in the world and see what shakes out of that.

Wouldn't that be worth watching?

The last 16 men are ranked where they are at because they play a lot of matches against the best men pool players in the world. Remember, the women (almost all of them) are ranked where they are at because their competition are other women. If the best sixteen women were playing in the same tournaments the last 16 men played in week in and week out, their ranking surely would drop.

It's a lot easier for the women to get through a field of Emily Duddy and Savannah Easton type players than it would be for them to get through the field the last 16 men have to wade through week to week.

Their Fargo ratings are comparing apples to oranges.
 
Maniac said:
I think it would be interesting to take the last 16 men on the list of 128 and play a round robin tournament with the top 16 women in the world and see what shakes out of that.

Wouldn't that be worth watching?

The last 16 men are ranked where they are at because they play a lot of matches against the best men pool players in the world. Remember, the women (almost all of them) are ranked where they are at because their competition are other women. If the best sixteen women were playing in the same tournaments the last 16 men played in week in and week out, their ranking surely would drop.

It's a lot easier for the women to get through a field of Emily Duddy and Savannah Easton type players than it would be for them to get through the field the last 16 men have to wade through week to week.

Their Fargo ratings are comparing apples to oranges.
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well, you said the magic word so i suspect mike p will chime in and explain the infallibility of fargorate.

but when it comes to siming chen specifically, she has proven herself against the men. the match linked earlier pretty much reflects her fargo, same with her matches against donny and svb
 
skogstokig said:
well, you said the magic word so i suspect mike p will chime in and explain the infallibility of fargorate.

but when it comes to siming chen specifically, she has proven herself against the men. the match linked earlier pretty much reflects her fargo, same with her matches against donny and svb
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Siming Chen is a beast. She'll be the first woman to top 800. I think she, along with many of the more established female players, could take any male player on their day.
Hopefully there is more opportunity for representation for women, and a chance to build equity, and then equality in the sport. Would certainly put to bed some of the nonsense threads regarding sex that I've seen pop-up here from time to time.
Maybe Pia isn't the player myself, or you might choose, but it's an opportunity to develop some form of role model character to widen the net of the sport we love to play in the soap box context that MatchRoom push. Opportunity and encouragement to a wider net of people. From a younger age.
This game is so heavily represented by men. In its history, it's marketing, branding and events. I'd argue slotting one woman in the mix isn't really enough.
 
skogstokig said:
well, you said the magic word so i suspect mike p will chime in and explain the infallibility of fargorate.

but when it comes to siming chen specifically, she has proven herself against the men. the match linked earlier pretty much reflects her fargo, same with her matches against donny and svb
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I'm curious, do you think the results wouldn't reflect their ratings?
 
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Maniac said:
I think it would be interesting to take the last 16 men on the list of 128 and play a round robin tournament with the top 16 women in the world and see what shakes out of that.

Wouldn't that be worth watching?

The last 16 men are ranked where they are at because they play a lot of matches against the best men pool players in the world. Remember, the women (almost all of them) are ranked where they are at because their competition are other women. If the best sixteen women were playing in the same tournaments the last 16 men played in week in and week out, their ranking surely would drop.

It's a lot easier for the women to get through a field of Emily Duddy and Savannah Easton type players than it would be for them to get through the field the last 16 men have to wade through week to week.

Their Fargo ratings are comparing apples to oranges.
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There's a complete lack of respect for women's pool in this post or maybe you are just misinformed about how Fargo works, for it is hard to get your Fargo high against weak competition.

Pia Filler played in the International and barely lost to Niels Feijen. At Derby City, she reached Round 8 in the 9ball, beating numerous credible players along the way.

Pia's Fargo in the 690s includes a lot of play against the elite men. Having watched her play numerous times, I feel strongly that she plays as well as men rated at about the same Fargo as hers.
 
I played in a lot of different places looking for a game and there were a few women who were roamers too. If they saw me they sort of gave me a little nod, as to say hello and shut the hell up at the same time. I watched them sucker a Lot of guys into games and they could hold their own against most!
 
tim913 said:
I played in a lot of different places looking for a game and there were a few women who were roamers too. If they saw me they sort of gave me a little nod, as to say hello and shut the hell up at the same time. I watched them sucker a Lot of guys into games and they could hold their own against most!
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Playing predominately 8-ball, I've seen a lot of guys match up with girls in my local hall. They play for light fee or petty cash usually, and agree to give the free ball to a lady, as is customary here in China... ridiculously sexist, and for the purpose of belittling women, and ego saving for men. Sometimes they give even more weight. Some women are good enough to use and abuse this. Love watching these flies get suckered into their web. They realize the error after the first game of a set. Give it in game one, best believe you're giving it for the rest of the set.
There is nothing separating men and women in a sport such as pool beyond generational stereotypes, fabricated perceptions and opportunities afforded.
Been lucky enough to watch some absolute gun female players where I am currently living.
 
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sjm said:
[...]

Pia's Fargo in the 690s includes a lot of play against the elite men.
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Here is her record against world-top-100 types. These opponents average around 810, so winning a third of the games is about what is expected of a 710. That's about where she's at here, winning 54 games and losing 105 [specific performance rating of 717 for these 159 games].

The SPR for all her 624 games against men over the last 2 years is 719. The average rating of the male opponents is 719, and this is an easy one to figure out: she won 314 games and lost 310--right at 50%


1714648965491.png

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mikepage said:
Here is her record against world-top-100 types. These opponents average around 810, so winning a third of the games is about what is expected of a 710. That's about where she's at here, winning 54 games and losing 105 [specific performance rating of 717 for these 159 games].

The SPR for all her 624 games against men over the last 2 years is 719. The average rating of the male opponents is 719, and this is an easy one to figure out: she won 314 games and lost 310--right at 50%


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Are you now including the last game of a set from the DCC? I recall years ago you mentioned that was a possibility, but you were not implementing it at that time.
 
Maniac said:
I think it would be interesting to take the last 16 men on the list of 128 and play a round robin tournament with the top 16 women in the world and see what shakes out of that.

Wouldn't that be worth watching?

The last 16 men are ranked where they are at because they play a lot of matches against the best men pool players in the world. Remember, the women (almost all of them) are ranked where they are at because their competition are other women. If the best sixteen women were playing in the same tournaments the last 16 men played in week in and week out, their ranking surely would drop.

It's a lot easier for the women to get through a field of Emily Duddy and Savannah Easton type players than it would be for them to get through the field the last 16 men have to wade through week to week.

Their Fargo ratings are comparing apples to oranges.
Click to expand...
I guess we'll never know unless the top women get their chance aganst the men. Who knows, maybe in the format which you outlined above their ratings might go up! As for me and my opinion, I've already seen women pound on men who were considered top 100 players. Any man who has to play a match with some of the elite women players will not be taking them lightly. To do so would be foolhardy. I saw what Siming did to Donny Mills, a former fourth place finisher in the U.S. Open with wins over many top players. I watched Shane lose to Xiatong Pan in a Race to Eleven at the World Ten Ball. Kelly Fisher defeating an in form Cliff Joyner. Karen Corr winning on the Joss Tour against loaded fields (128) of the top male players in the Northeast. I believe she also made the finals in the prestigious Turning Stone Classic. They have arrived, so I say let them play!
 
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iusedtoberich said:
Are you now including the last game of a set from the DCC? I recall years ago you mentioned that was a possibility, but you were not implementing it at that time.
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Yes, we've been doing that for several years.

These games have almost no impact on the players who travel around and play a lot--the ones we pay attention to. The value of these games in the system is more subtle. Let's say from each of Kentucky, Tennessee, Indiana, South Carolina there are 30 amateur players from areas where we are weak. And let's say in that weak area most of the data we DO have is them playing each other (and so gives no information about the level of play). Those 30 players from each state will play about 60 matches, so 60 games from each state. Think of the system as using the results of these games to level out these areas. If the South Carolina players win more matches than we expect them to, then others in SC who didn't come to DCC are elevated a bit because of it. The system basically knows how much to pay attention to the information.
 
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