Two Greatest Players

This thread contains Dr Dave's input on both the rules and this specific call, which he says is not a foul under the rules.

dr_dave

Thread 'When are MISCUE and SCOOP Shots Fouls?'

FYI, I just posted a new video that fully explores miscue and scoop shots in detail and makes it totally clear when they are legal or not. Several recent calls from recent pro tournament matches are also examined in detail, including the recent controversial scoop shot by Patric Gomez against Jayson Shaw in the recent Philippines Open. Check it out:


Supporting Resources:
- rules resources: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rules/
- WPA “official rules of pool:” https://wpapool.com/rules/
- foul resources...
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this is a misunderstanding of what's technically a foul vs pool tradition and customs. refereeing autism..

when pro pool players start playing deliberate scoop shots i will change my mind
 
iusedtoberich said:
(A.) Did you guys miss the last 5 years of pro pool officials? They’ve been (A1). calling miscues fouls. Shaw spoke up because they were doing that all season. It wasn’t him being an ass.
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A. Appears that way.
A1. Did you think it was a foul?
Did the officials that none of us saw in the last five years.... teach you this?

So they changed a draw shot miscue to a BIH foul.
Being a Nat. referee.... iusedtoberich.

Show us/me in print where the rules/rule book says draw shot hop miscues are Fouls?

I guess anyone than can change an American orange 5 ball, can change a misCue :).
bm
 
Island Drive said:
A. Appears that way.
A1. Did you think it was a foul?
Did the officials that none of us saw in the last five years.... teach you this?

So they changed a draw shot miscue to a BIH foul.
Being a Nat. referee.... iusedtoberich.

Show us/me in print where the rules/rule book says draw shot hop miscues are Fouls?

I guess anyone than can change an American orange 5 ball, can change a misCue :).
bm
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See the dr dave thread SJM quoted.

No, I disagree with it being called a foul. It should not be a foul, imo. The EU refs started doing it out of the blue about 5 years ago. About the same time they started calling a foul if a player put their hand in the pocket to remove a ball when the game was over. They travel worldwide to major events so it became "standard" the past few years.

I'm actually quite surprised this is the first you're hearing about this.

The latest rule set, released in 2025, aimed to explicitly NOT make it a foul I believe.
 
skogstokig said:
this is a misunderstanding of what's technically a foul vs pool tradition and customs. refereeing autism..

when pro pool players start playing deliberate scoop shots i will change my mind
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Only seen one pro player do it live and no one saw it, can't remember the match.
Old recording, likely from the 80's, I've tried to find it, but time made me not try again, might of been a network production?
Efren shooting 9', table was full of balls (8 ball game??) cue ball r/s behind? or near the head string, even the announcers didn't catch it, very slight scoop jump over the outside feather edge of the blocking ball.
A table length roller/scooper/jump shot, medium speed, he made it. :)
 
iusedtoberich said:
See the dr dave thread SJM quoted.

No, I disagree with it being called a foul. It should not be a foul, imo. The EU refs started doing it A. out of the blue about 5 years ago. About the same time they started calling a foul if a player put their hand in the pocket to remove a ball when the game was over. They travel worldwide to major events so it became "standard" the past few years.

B. I'm actually quite surprised this is the first you're hearing about this.

The latest rule set, released in 2025, aimed to explicitly NOT make it a foul I believe.
Click to expand...

Out of the blue huh :). The Blue Rule?
Cool your Surprised 🤔
your quote:

''The latest rule set, released in 2025, aimed to explicitly NOT make it a foul I believe''

Who printed the rule set?????????????????????

Show me the ''latest rule set'' your talking about.



AND
at the end of your above sentence you said.

I believe...
99% or 100%???????????????






.
 
Then to please the others, show Them the rule in print.
I know you Won't.
I know you can't. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Because I believe. :)
 
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OP thread.... Chewy Rivera.
Because I was comparing Shaws actions to Earls....
He uncorked against Chewy, Denver Open to win, nothing more.
Earls highest gear and Shaws highest gear, are different from the rest.
 
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Island Drive said:
This is about how some players deal with their moments in match play.
I was there in 80's/Denver Open, when the other Greatest won his match ''uncorking'' as his opponent pulled the trigger.
Recently I watched this match live.

Deja Vu.... the Move.
Seeing Shaw pull this move.... took me back to when I was on Colfax watching Chuey Rivera in real time lose with the move.
The above video at the 4+ minute mark, Ref should of kept non player seated.
Did the ref go see a replay of the shot?
That miscue shot was a legal miscue ''all day looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooongah"
But Mr Big got the ref to change the game.
If anyone disagrees, tell me why?
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Dick move, but it is Jason Shaw.

I had him to my room the night before our regional tournament that is held at a casino. He matched up against another pro and was paid to do it. Played in my pro am tournament and made easy money there (only Earl ever refused because it was single elimination!).

Anyway on the way out this dude is outside his care smoking a J. Takes the trash out if his car, throws it in the parking lot and drives off....since then he's dogshit to me.
 
Island Drive said:
OP thread.... Chewy Rivera.
Because I was comparing Shaws actions to Earls....
He uncorked against Chewy, Denver Open to win, nothing more.
Earls highest gear and Shaws highest gear, are different from the rest.
Click to expand...

First time Earl's name as been mentioned but thanks for clarifying that.

If you think Shaw is one of the two greatest pool players of all time and stands alongside Earl as one of the two, so be it.
 
SBC said:
Dick move, but it is Jason Shaw.

I had him to my room the night before our regional tournament that is held at a casino. He matched up against another pro and was paid to do it. Played in my pro am tournament and made easy money there (only Earl ever refused because it was single elimination!).

Anyway on the way out this dude is outside his care smoking a J. Takes the trash out if his car, throws it in the parking lot and drives off....since then he's dogshit to me.
Click to expand...
Shaw did this?
 
jeephawk said:
First time Earl's name as been mentioned but thanks for clarifying that.

If you think Shaw is one of the two greatest pool players of all time and stands alongside Earl as one of the two, so be it.
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Because no one had asked yet, guess the focus was on the video.
 
Island Drive said:
Never seen a higher gear, only his equal in all my years.
He's as aggressive as a player can get when in punch with incredible swing power, 18' of draw/Shaw.
To me now, he's living off the fat, got family bills etc. and he needs to lose 25 lbs to get it back. He's wasting his talent.
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He lives in his in laws house, I believe, and the pool hall was being owned and run by his Korean father in law long before Jason showed up. I don't think that the guy is completely supporting himself and family with that type of in law support. it is a nice life when you can run all around the world playing pool and have many of life's necessities taken care of for you. Few in life have such luxury - and we know that such a luxury can be good or bad.
 
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