Learn with an aiming system or not

louieatienza · Feb 10, 2017

bstroud said:
Went with a friend of mine to a place in Scottsdale called RoboGolf.

They hooked him up to a robot that forced him to make a perfect golf swing so he could feel what one felt like.

Looks like a similar machine would work for a pool stroke. Not so sure about aiming?

Bill S.

I think the only problem I see with that is, not every person has the same body type, build, flexibility, strength, so not everybody can achieve the same prototypical robot swing. Ironically I am a disciple of the legendary golf instructor and long-ball hitter Mike Austin, whose teachings were pretty controversial and counter to what the "modern" Hogan-style swing is taught; but nowadays more of Austin's teachings are finding its way into golf instruction.

I was advocating the use of some 6" length of 3/4" ID PVC pipe, propped on wood blocks, or erasers, or whatever, that could help groove a straight stroke. Leafing through some billiard mags I had from over 20 years ago, I realized Buddy Hall had already invented it. Don't know if they're still for sale. His maybe slightly better because of the clear tube and plastic standoffs. But it works regardless of build;

bstroud · Feb 10, 2017

louieatienza said:
I think the only problem I see with that is, not every person has the same body type, build, flexibility, strength, so not everybody can achieve the same prototypical robot swing. Ironically I am a disciple of the legendary golf instructor and long-ball hitter Mike Austin, whose teachings were pretty controversial and counter to what the "modern" Hogan-style swing is taught; but nowadays more of Austin's teachings are finding its way into golf instruction.

I was advocating the use of some 6" length of 3/4" ID PVC pipe, propped on wood blocks, or erasers, or whatever, that could help groove a straight stroke. Leafing through some billiard mags I had from over 20 years ago, I realized Buddy Hall had already invented it. Don't know if they're still for sale. His maybe slightly better because of the clear tube and plastic standoffs. But it works regardless of build;

The robot procedure is very sofisticated.

They first video your current swing and body.

The robot is adjusted to fit your physic and then you are hooked to the robot.

My friend is a 2 and felt the experience was well worth the 175.00

By the way I also knew Mike when I lived in Austin and played with him several times.

Bill S.

gregcantrall · Feb 10, 2017

louieatienza said:
I was advocating the use of some 6" length of 3/4" ID PVC pipe, propped on wood blocks, or erasers, or whatever, that could help groove a straight stroke. Leafing through some billiard mags I had from over 20 years ago, I realized Buddy Hall had already invented it. Don't know if they're still for sale. His maybe slightly better because of the clear tube and plastic standoffs. But it works regardless of build;

An empty beer bottle works just fine.

Stroke to the back without hitting the sides.

JoeyInCali · Feb 10, 2017

gregcantrall said:
An empty beer bottle works just fine. Stroke to the back without hitting the sides.

All good but that is not the real world according to Bert Kinnister.
And I agree with him.

What I've done instead is place two hole reinforcers by the foot spot.
One 8 inches below and one 8 inches on top.
Pointing towards the corner pocket. Another hole reinforcer by the 2nd diamond from that corner.
Shoot straight in shots as warm up every practice session. Sometimes it's the ONLY practice session.
Stop shots, stun and follow.
My eyes are so bad now my cue tip is pretty far from the cue ball.
I'm finding out I cannot shoot any straighter unless I let the cue slide.
Which works fine for stun shots or stop shots. Not so with follow or hard draws.
A pure pendulum stroke would hit the top of that bottle on the follow through b/c the tip goes down and the grip hand goes up to the chest/shoulder.

You can actually stroke really straight on that bottle but your vision might be off in relationship with the two balls ( cue ball and ob ). It's taken me a decade +to find this out with my own vision. Joe Tucker surely knew this and invented the his device to correct it.
And it's also taken me a decade+ to learn line up the shoulder, elbow and grip hand. My grip and elbow were always away from my body.
The hole reinforcer setup has slowly corrected that.

crazysnake · Feb 10, 2017

I believe that it's good to lean about all the various aiming systems. However, I believe that too much time is devoted to the discussion and debating the benefits of one or another system. I would like to see more time devoted to the discussion of the fundamental of delivering a good stroke. Aiming systems are not very useful if a player cannot strike the ball with consistent accuracy. I wish there were more discussions about how to improve your stroke!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

HawaiianEye · Feb 10, 2017

crazysnake said:
I believe that it's good to lean about all the various aiming systems. However, I believe that too much time is devoted to the discussion and debating the benefits of one or another system. I would like to see more time devoted to the discussion of the fundamental of delivering a good stroke. Aiming systems are not very useful if a player cannot strike the ball with consistent accuracy. I wish there were more discussions about how to improve your stroke!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Here you go.

Clarence Carter explains Strokin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pNDdMImhHQ

JoeyInCali · Feb 10, 2017

crazysnake said:
I believe that it's good to lean about all the various aiming systems. However, I believe that too much time is devoted to the discussion and debating the benefits of one or another system. I would like to see more time devoted to the discussion of the fundamental of delivering a good stroke. Aiming systems are not very useful if a player cannot strike the ball with consistent accuracy. I wish there were more discussions about how to improve your stroke!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VODQn8GtrMA
Probably the best pool instructor today.

HawaiianEye · Feb 10, 2017

JoeyInCali said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VODQn8GtrMA
Probably the best pool instructor today.

I would agree that he has to be among the best at instructing at a level that most people can understand.

JoeyInCali · Feb 10, 2017

HawaiianEye said:
I would agree that he has to be among the best at instructing at a level that most people can understand.

I get a kick of some instructors who show how good they shoot.
But, do not show their students/clients' progress.
Or any success stories.
The worst ones are the ones that just confuse students I think.

There was one like that here in SoCal.
All he did was confuse the crap out of students.
Made some worse.
Kinda like Steven Seagal teaching MMA.
People were so embarrassed they even had him in their gyms.

Straightpool_99 · Feb 10, 2017

GoldenFlash said:
I'm an APA 3 and I have an accurate & repeatable stroke.

APA 3...Please forgive my ignorance of league ratings, as I'm not American, but that is the lowest rating attainable for a male? Correct? I also see that you joined in 2011....

In that case I do not believe you. There is no way your stroke is accurate, UNLESS you have extremely bad eyesight, in which case there is not much a system can do for you.

I realize you are pretty heavily invested in the CTE promoting here on the forum. I only wished I was in the US. I'd show you some things that would be guaranteed to make you a 4, maybe a 5 in just a couple of weeks if you put in the work(for a player that has been playing as long as you have, you have some knowledge of ball collisions and cueball paths, but you need to work on your execution and your technique). I'd guarantee the results as well, and I'd let you aim however you wanted, but the pivoting would have to go, you'd have to do visual sweeps if you insisted on using CTE.

I would consider any coaching I gave a complete and utter failure if I couldn't elevate a player from the lowest ranking possible and I cannot believe anyone could take your money in good conscience without at least guaranteeing you an APA 4 rating...Such a coach you should not trust. I'm saying this as a complete amateur, in as much as I've never charged anyone money for helping them with their games, but if I ever was to start a career in coaching, I'd have a guarentee of results or your money back.

I wish you the best of luck with your game.

one stroke · Feb 10, 2017

JoeyInCali said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VODQn8GtrMA
Probably the best pool instructor today.

Interesting few yrs back watching a buddy of mine may he Rest In Peace was playing in the seniors at the Xbo and he was struggling early , I told him to get rid of his slip stroke get his hand up on the wrap and don't move it , he went on to finishing 9th only cause he got knocked out by the winner in that round ,,

1

GoldenFlash · Feb 10, 2017

Straightpool_99 said:
APA 3...Please forgive my ignorance of league ratings, as I'm not American, but that is the lowest rating attainable for a male? Correct? I also see that you joined in 2011....
In that case I do not believe you. There is no way your stroke is accurate, UNLESS you have extremely bad eyesight, in which case there is not much a system can do for you.
I realize you are pretty heavily invested in the CTE promoting here on the forum. I only wished I was in the US. I'd show you some things that would be guaranteed to make you a 4, maybe a 5 in just a couple of weeks if you put in the work(for a player that has been playing as long as you have, you have some knowledge of ball collisions and cueball paths, but you need to work on your execution and your technique). I'd guarantee the results as well, and I'd let you aim however you wanted, but the pivoting would have to go, you'd have to do visual sweeps if you insisted on using CTE.
I would consider any coaching I gave a complete and utter failure if I couldn't elevate a player from the lowest ranking possible and I cannot believe anyone could take your money in good conscience without at least guaranteeing you an APA 4 rating...Such a coach you should not trust. I'm saying this as a complete amateur, in as much as I've never charged anyone money for helping them with their games, but if I ever was to start a career in coaching, I'd have a guarentee of results or your money back.
I wish you the best of luck with your game.

You seem to be a decent person and sincere as well. Thank you.

ribdoner · Feb 10, 2017

GoldenFlash said:
You seem to be a decent person and sincere as well. Thank you.

Are sincere about being a APA 3, if so, i only need the 7

louieatienza · Feb 10, 2017

JoeyInCali said:
I get a kick of some instructors who show how good they shoot.
But, do not show their students/clients' progress.
Or any success stories.
The worst ones are the ones that just confuse students I think.

There was one like that here in SoCal.
All he did was confuse the crap out of students.
Made some worse.
Kinda like Steven Seagal teaching MMA.
People were so embarrassed they even had him in their gyms.

I believe in Tor's case, he does have quite a few progress stories with his students on YouTube. Some of the before/after shoots are pretty amazing.

1 Pocket Ghost · Feb 10, 2017

I am currently working on/perfecting the ultimate aiming system

Here is a pic of me with the prototype

------>

Danimal · Feb 10, 2017

^^^
Your forearm is slightly ahead of vertical.

Without a great stroke it doesn't matter how many scopes you use to perfect that aim :grin-square:

j2pac · Feb 10, 2017

Danimal said:
^^^
Your forearm is slightly ahead of vertical.

Without a great stroke it doesn't matter how many scopes you use to perfect that aim :grin-square:

Not to mention what's going to happen to his eyeball when he pulls the cue back.

:grin-square:
j2

Bob Jewett · Feb 10, 2017

Danimal said:
^^^
Your forearm is slightly ahead of vertical.

Without a great stroke it doesn't matter how many scopes you use to perfect that aim :grin-square:

You have to watch the motion. He is set up for a super slip and slide stroke. With a half twist. And a pike.

Oze147 · Feb 11, 2017

Sooo,,,,sorry, took me a while to answer but:

JB Cases said:
The pivot is totally misunderstood, no comment on that as it's been covered a zillion times. It's truly not a big deal.

Yeah, thats why I said "lost in translation". Kind of implies that there might have been some misunderstanding on my side.

JB Cases said:
And snooker coaches, some of them anyway do put a lot of emphasis on aiming.

Well...lets say they cover aiming. A lot of emphasis is what they put in working on your stroke, stance, position play etc.

JB Cases said:
Aiming systems/methods in snooker,

1. B.O.B. Back of Ball (contact point)
2. Dummy Ball - Ghost Ball
3. Line of the Shot (whatever that means)

...and videos

Yes, there are different aiming techniques used in snooker and nobody said otherwise, I just said, that there are not much of controversies about aiming, let alone highly emotional crusades. They just see what works for them and use it...they just don`t make such a fuss about it.
Beside I don`t know why you included the aspect of coaches monetizing their knowledge. Professional coaching is their job, so earning money is the whole point of it. (ok, not the whole point, but at the end they want to to make a living out of it).

RiverCity · Feb 11, 2017

HawaiianEye said:
Here you go.

Clarence Carter explains Strokin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pNDdMImhHQ

I prefer Billy Squier :thumbup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69fPof-ZTnU

Learn with an aiming system or not

AzB Silver Member

Deceased

Center Ball

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues

AzB Silver Member

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues

I see dead balls

AzB Silver Member

Banned

SATISFACTION GUARANTEED

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

Attachments

AzB Silver Member

Marital Slow Learner.

AZB Osmium Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member