Beat or Match Mosconi's 526 at the BCAPL Nationals Win Cash!

dmgwalsh

Straight Pool Fanatic
Silver Member
Mike:

That's a-l-m-o-s-t the pace of Dave Daya -- the "Tony Drago" of 14.1. ;)

I would say of modern-day players, Dave Daya has the quickest and most-enjoyable-to-watch pace of any 14.1 player.

For yesteryear? Lou Butera, most definitely. In fact, it is one of Lou's records that still stands in this regard -- in 1973, Lou ran 150-and-out against Allen Hopkins in 21 minutes.

I'm not nearly the pace of these guys, but even with my lowly 112, I pride myself in that run *not* being a deliberate pace by any stretch of the imagination. Although I was so in the zone (shooting from subconscious, and not aware of time), I was told (by the room owner) that I did it in about 30 minutes.

-Sean

This thread has been everywhere. I kind of liked when it zigged back to fast runs.

JS usually does 100 in 22 or 23 minutes.

Here is a flyer from the past that celebrates Lou Butera's speed.
 

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sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
In truth, I think that the pace of play is ridiculously slow today, and each year it seems that it gets slower.

No, this is not a generation of notoriously slow players like Dick Lane or Frank Taberski, but I've been to 15 different events since 1976 that were either PPPA World 14.1 championships, US Open 14.1 championships , or Dragon 14.1 championships, and there are more slow players today than ever before.

The sad result in 2011 was that practically nobody witnessed the final, which didn't begin until close to midnight on the final day and lasted until about 3:00 AM.
 

StraightPoolIU

Brent
Silver Member
I love watching great players, and I especially love 14.1. When guys play so slow that you're losing my my interest it's a huge problem. Unfortunately that's a rather frequent occurance.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
You definitely would get a chuckle, I'm terrible.lol You're a great player, even Schmidt has said that many times.
Not sure what the rest of your post means but on the way home from the shrink maybe you should stop somewhere and get spelling lessons. It's swagger with two g's bud. Maybe we should post up ten grand against who scores higher on an I.Q. test.
But in the meantime, let's get back to what the post was about before you're usual schmidt rant derailed us (obsess much Dan?)- straight pool, runs on video for people like me who have never run a hundred, normal folks like Bobby and John, etc.
Thanks for the comic relief though..

You probably are more intelligent than me, I would guess that I am more aware when I am in the midst of right winged piggies who are afraid of any other opinion other than their own. People who brag about being smart are usually not real wise - you probably feel right at home in the group of piggies to which I am referring to. I don't think you can teach me much, but feel free to spread your wordly oinker knowledge . Is oinker an adjective or personal pro noun - I figured you would be the authority on it as you do seem to not sweat about your swinery. What is the difference between a hog and a pig - are they one in the same? Your knowledge that would pertain to the game of pocket billiards would be as useful as two tits on a boar. Comprenda?
 
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cbaumann212

Jackass Extraordinaire
Silver Member
In the years I was in law enforcement, I had to discharge my weapon in two situations. One of those people lost their life. Not a day goes by, in fact not an hour goes by when that doesn't enter my heart or my mind. I had no other choice in either situation. The person that lost their life would have taken mine and my partner's life if I hadn't pulled my trigger first. I guess the fact that I saved my life, my partner's life, and the lives of everybody else at that scene makes me a real assshole.

Oh... and before you accuse me or group me into some other stupid crap - I could have cared less about weed when I was a cop. I became a cop because one of my closest friends was murdered by an ex-boyfriend. My thing was helping people, not killing them. I helped start many domestic abuse programs while I was in law enforcement - many of those programs are still in effect. I tried to make the most of my time - and I did everything in my power to assist people in need. I did that tirelessly and I did that from my heart, not my wallet.

At the time that I was a police officer, I had my own business, and my home and cars were paid for. Trust me, I didn't do it for the paycheck.

From the two situations where I shot someone - I was sued a total of 8 times for 2 bullets. In the situation where the person did not die - he was lunging at another officer and his own mother with a knife in one hand and a broken beer bottle in the other. after saving his mother's life, she turned around and sued me civilly - and she also sued the City.

I must be a real asshole for taking the actions that I did, but she should have thanked me for having the life in her body the day she signed the court papers to sue me. That's what the judge said to her when he tossed out her lawsuit.

I do regret discharging my weapon and injuring her son. The stress from her civil suit alone destroyed my private business, my personal savings, my family, and eventually my motivation to work in law enforcement. All because I made split second decision to save the life of someone that I didn't even know.

It's real easy to sit back and point fingers and group people together and second guess people that have been in situations that require split second judgement calls where they have other lives (not only their own) to take into consideration.

It takes a very weak-minded person to accuse me of selling out freedom for a paycheck, when you have no basis for making such a statement - you have no idea how I conducted myself as a police officer - you have no idea why I chose to become one in the first place - and you have no idea why I left law enforcement. Yet you sit there and say idiotic things such as that - grouping myself and Mike into some stereotype that is designed to make you feel better about what you are saying.

Oh... and BTW, the idiot that I shot a split second before he sliced his mother's chest open with a Michelob bottle... he committed suicide two years after the law suit was tossed out. I had been out of law enforcement for about 4 years by then, but it didn't stop the guy's mother from trying to hold me and the City responsible for his suicide.

IMO, people like that are shitt. I also think I'm right about that.

You don't know me, nor do you know anything about me - and I will guarantee you that don't have half the balls that it took to do 1/1000th of the work I did as a soldier or as a law enforcement officer. It's easier for you to sit back there and toss BS out there and hold myself (and everybody else in law enforcement) responsible for situations we had nothing to do with. That is because you are ignorant. I have been on the front lines. I have put my ass on the line night after night and day after day. I have knowledge of law enforcement - both positive and negative. You don't - and you don't have a clue about me or anybody else that wears a badge. For that reason, I have no problem telling you to STFU.

Congratulations. You are the first person I have had to say that to in over 15 years of being online - and you deserve it.

Quite possibly the post of the year! Thanks for your service! Green-a-comin!
 

14-1StraightMan

High Run 127
Silver Member
Pocket Size

It's been a little slow on the Forum lately so I will put this out there.
I have often thought to myself why I have decent runs but do not break 100 as much as I would like to. I measured my pockets on my table. The corner pockets are 4 & a quarter inches wide.
It appears that it is closer to 4" then 4 1/4 Now I understand why I hang up so many balls.

I need 6" pockets..... LOL

PS: Dennis, those are really neat looking posters of the old time players. I have a really neat one too. I will try to post a photo of it in the next few days.
 
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AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... I measured my pockets on my table. The corner pockets are 4 & a quarter inches wide.
It appears that it is closer to 4" then 4 1/4 ...

Wow, Mike; all those great runs of yours with corner pockets that are 4 1/4" or less! :eek: I'm further humbled.
 

14-1StraightMan

High Run 127
Silver Member
Thanks

Wow, Mike; all those great runs of yours with corner pockets that are 4 1/4" or less! :eek: I'm further humbled.


Thank you for the compliment. Those pockets have ended many more good runs then I have ever posted. Maybe it has helped me be accurate over the years but it sure is frustrating to hang up a ball during a good run. I have notice that when I play on other tables it seems easier to me.
 

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Hehe Mikey :)

better stay here in this part of the forum- or this could end in an *aiming thread*, lmao--


Secret for Mikey s Aiming System: He aims the way, that the ball goes centerpocket :p
You re a fox *grin*.

take care Mike,
ttys
Ingo
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Back to the post that is pool related

I must say that some of the older tables had a slate design to where when the ball got in the shelf of the pocket the slate was not cut at a 90. I am referring to what they used to call drop pocket tables, there is a table at Q-Masters in Virginia that has drop pockets, it is incredibly easy. I will say that it's a nice gesture to keep Mosconi's record in the spotlight - but this offer is not a real threat to Mosconi's record with the Diamond pro spec pockets of today - or in other words the money is safe. However I think with a table like the one in VA it would be possible for me to run over five (I would probably get to 525 and miss):smile:. I don't think that CSI would want to put up twenty thousand with a camera and give me or a few others a couple of years to surpass Mosconi's record. However there are many variables to consider like cloth, analysis of filmed footage from todays top players, and the clay balls vs todays phenolic resin or plastic pool balls.

I do think they can catch a cheat from the replacement of balls after missing, with all of their technology. I realize I am wasting my time with this but if anyone figures out whether a filmed run would be considered legit - even after the geek squad had full-proofed the footage. Then give me and others a table like the one Schmidt ran his 400 on and put up 20 dimes, my bet is that Mosconi's run would not stand for long. I can assure yall that the 280 I caught on tape is real - I did not miss untill the 281st shot. I have many 300 ball runs on a table that might be tougher than the one Willie ran all those racks on.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...I don't think that CSI would want to put up twenty thousand with a camera and give me or a few others a couple of years to surpass Mosconi's record...


lol. Whenever I hear someone say something like this the first thing I think is: you want a free shot.

IOW, you want someone to set up the table and let you wail away. If you're so sure you, or someone, or anyone, can take Mosconi's record, why don't you say instead: if the facilities are provided, I will match X dollars in prize money and say I can break Mosconi's record in X number of tries/hours?

oh, that's right. You want a free shot.

Lou Figueroa
never mind Mosconi did it
in one inning
 

9BallJim

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's been a little slow on the Forum lately so I will put this out there.
I have often thought to myself why I have decent runs but do not break 100 as much as I would like to. I measured my pockets on my table. The corner pockets are 4 & a quarter inches wide.
It appears that it is closer to 4" then 4 1/4 Now I understand why I hang up so many balls.

I need 6" pockets..... LOL

PS: Dennis, those are really neat looking posters of the old time players. I have a really neat one too. I will try to post a photo of it in the next few days.

Your pockets didn't seem that tight when I stopped by. You're measuring from point to point where the rail changes direction? Or are you measuring the back of the pocket?
 

14-1StraightMan

High Run 127
Silver Member
I'm Stupid

You know what? I think that I have measured the pocket incorrectly. I did some Internet research and found out the way to measure a pocket is from the tip of the cushion to the other tip. I had measured from the inside of the pocket where the ball falls off the shelf into the pocket.
I think maybe my table has a deep shelf compared to other tables. Which would lead to balls hanging up.

Sorry about the mistake. I just did not think that I was capable of making a mistake..... I am very surprised...... :>)
 

9BallJim

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You know what? I think that I have measured the pocket incorrectly. I did some Internet research and found out the way to measure a pocket is from the tip of the cushion to the other tip. I had measured from the inside of the pocket where the ball falls off the shelf into the pocket.
I think maybe my table has a deep shelf compared to other tables. Which would lead to balls hanging up.

Sorry about the mistake. I just did not think that I was capable of making a mistake..... I am very surprised...... :>)

No worries. So what do your pockets measure point to point?
 
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Lonestar_jim

Two & Out
Silver Member
good post

I must say that some of the older tables had a slate design to where when the ball got in the shelf of the pocket the slate was not cut at a 90. I am referring to what they used to call drop pocket tables, there is a table at Q-Masters in Virginia that has drop pockets, it is incredibly easy. I will say that it's a nice gesture to keep Mosconi's record in the spotlight - but this offer is not a real threat to Mosconi's record with the Diamond pro spec pockets of today - or in other words the money is safe. However I think with a table like the one in VA it would be possible for me to run over five (I would probably get to 525 and miss):smile:. I don't think that CSI would want to put up twenty thousand with a camera and give me or a few others a couple of years to surpass Mosconi's record. However there are many variables to consider like cloth, analysis of filmed footage from todays top players, and the clay balls vs todays phenolic resin or plastic pool balls.

I do think they can catch a cheat from the replacement of balls after missing, with all of their technology. I realize I am wasting my time with this but if anyone figures out whether a filmed run would be considered legit - even after the geek squad had full-proofed the footage. Then give me and others a table like the one Schmidt ran his 400 on and put up 20 dimes, my bet is that Mosconi's run would not stand for long. I can assure yall that the 280 I caught on tape is real - I did not miss untill the 281st shot. I have many 300 ball runs on a table that might be tougher than the one Willie ran all those racks on.


Danny, Thanks for the thoughtful post, with no drama and insults. You come off better when using the old noodle rather than emotion, I mean that.

I appreciate your respect for the difficulty of achieving 526 with a camera set up on a table of lesser difficulty. As you stated it would probably take some top pro's a couple of years to break it.

If the table in Virginia is still there and many others about the country I would bet exist. Why not take some friends out occasionally with a camera and start cracking at the 526 on your own time. With enough eyes plus a camera I think you would have all the evidence needed to have a legitimate new high run.

It should also be easy to get a table with pocket size and playing size similar to the Mosconi high run table and set it up at home and you could then break the record multiple times if you want to. Remember nobody offered $20K when Mosconi set the record.
 

Wink

14.1 Wannabe
Silver Member
You know what? I think that I have measured the pocket incorrectly. I did some Internet research and found out the way to measure a pocket is from the tip of the cushion to the other tip. I had measured from the inside of the pocket where the ball falls off the shelf into the pocket.
I think maybe my table has a deep shelf compared to other tables. Which would lead to balls hanging up.

Sorry about the mistake. I just did not think that I was capable of making a mistake..... I am very surprised...... :>)

Best thing I have seen on this topic is from this site:

http://www.azbilliards.com/rogerlong/roger2.php
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It would be great to see someone break Mosconi's record. I'd also like to see someone take a run at the 5 x 10 record, which I believe is Crane's 309.

The thing you have to remember about Mosconi's record is he did it in an exhibition. He didn't get a dime extra for running 526 which is why he usually stopped. If someone had offered Mosconi a significant financial incentive to break his own record there is little doubt in my mind Mosconi could break it.
 

elvicash

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lol. Whenever I hear someone say something like this the first thing I think is: you want a free shot.

IOW, you want someone to set up the table and let you wail away. If you're so sure you, or someone, or anyone, can take Mosconi's record, why don't you say instead: if the facilities are provided, I will match X dollars in prize money and say I can break Mosconi's record in X number of tries/hours?

oh, that's right. You want a free shot.

Lou Figueroa
never mind Mosconi did it
in one inning

Lou, this was an exhibition and Willie got on a roll and ran some balls. He did not say here comes a 526 and wala he ran that number. The only reason that feat has any significance here today is that some lawyer suggested the affidavit aside from that happening this run would just be a mere footnote the same as Eufemia and Cranfield currently get and whoever else ran monster numbers back in the day.

You might say it is a free shot and that is what that Danny is suggesting but if a new exceptional high run was accomplished and Diamond offered that player some cash for doing the same say on a Diamond table they could get plenty of promotional value out of it.

If I thought I could get a world class pro to focus on a task I set for 2 years putting in plenty of effort for only 20k I would think I was getting a bargain. Let say it takes 2 years (104 weeks) 6 days a week (624 working days) 6 hours a day (3744 total hours). The player would be getting ~ $5.34/hr. So I think the person putting up the prize would be getting something for the 20k, a lot of effort. Now lets say whoever posts up the prize requires the video to be captured and also to be streamed by the attempting players (maybe more than 1 will chase a big prize). If so the person with the fund could lots of video streams available put the streams together on a home page and promote the effort to get attention to the sport and their product.

Someone say offer me a small sum such as $20k and I will focus on breaking your record. Owe yeah you do not have to pay me till I do this no matter how long it takes I will work at it till I do it. And you want to say that the player is asking for a free shot as if their time and effort has no value.

I think they should offer $100k not $20k and then spend a million dollars or more promoting the prize to get attention on the effort. That is what happens with more mainstream sports and prizes the promotion cost is higher than the prize. That would bring in many viewers to watch the efforts. Perhaps these viewers would buy some equipment and go play some pool. Perhaps they would just start watching pool if it was well done to watch this would perhaps bring in some mainstream product as advertisers as well. I am not saying that Diamond, Brunswick, OB or Predator or anyone should offer such a prize in particular, I am saying this is what an entity wanting players to make such an effort and get results should do if it wants results and attention on the effort.

The world watches baseball, soccer and golf all can be thought of as very boring to watch by many people but yet they bring enough viewers to attract big mainstream money.

Danny I do not think you were asking for a free shot.
 
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