My Mea Culpa

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I saw Richie play several times in the late 1970s and early 1980s, but it was only at straight pool and I don't recall ever meeting him. Sounds like it was a missed opportunity.
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
all of what jay said was right on the money. pool was cutthroat and still is. if you had something good another tried to take it away. pool players as many always went for the quick buck and didnt have any allegiance to anyone. that cost the game dearly.

richies best tournament was the one, near bend oregon. we had great action and it was fun. i did get to bust him again with the trick game we played. got him the first time after his big baccarat score in vegas. sent him home broke and trying to borrow money. his almost all ivory cue went with it.
overall he was a good guy but a terrible gambler.

tournament promoters need to be players or it doesnt end well. as we have all seen.
 

worktheknight

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fantastic Post Jay, never heard of Richie before, but certainly
feel like I do know a little bit. Thanks for the post, love the
stories.
RIP Richie
 

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jay ,I am curious, did Salazar match up with any of those big boys or was he always flying under the radar?
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jay ,I am curious, did Salazar match up with any of those big boys or was he always flying under the radar?

Joe could match up with anyone on a bar table, but he couldn't take on the best players at 9-Ball on the big table without a little weight. He was probably the solid eight ball under a Cardone or Richie. On a bar table he might beat either one of them though.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't know where else to address this but here. I missed an opportunity years ago to salute one of my very important mentors. It was on the occasion of his funeral, and his name was Richie Florence. He was very well known in pool playing circles in the 60's and 70's as "Little Richie" from Torrance and California Richie.

To say Richie was a great player is an understatement. He was considered the absolute best 9-Ball player on the West Coast at that time, a reputation that went unchallenged until first Keith, then Swanee and finally Kim came along. The only man on the West Coast who could actually challenge Richie in his prime was Denny Searcy and they did battle a few times at the Billiard Palace in Bellflower, CA, long before there was a Hard Times. As good and fearless as Denny was, at some point he gave up trying to beat Richie at 9-Ball. Richie was maybe the only man I ever saw hang with Denny back then, who made mincemeat out of everyone else who dared to gamble with him. I will only add that Sigel and Hubbart avoided Denny and Louie got creamed when he tried him out.

Richie was in the top three or four players in the nation when talking about 9-Ball for a good ten to fifteen years. 9-Ball was definitely his specialty since that was the gambling game of choice back then to assert dominance on the pool table. Richie did not turn down a game with ANYONE, and the other top guns of his era (Billy Incardona, Bernie Schwartz, Wade Crane, Ed Kelly and Greg Stevens) were not anxious to tangle with him either. One time they snuck Jimmy Moore in on a young Richie and it backfired on them. When the top road men visited Los Angeles (Jimmy Marino, Larry Lisciotti, Jimmy Reid, Jimmy Fusco etc.) they gave Richie a wide berth. To even play him was to kill your action everywhere.

All that said, Richie grew tired of the pool hustling life and decided to become a promoter of professional pool and make it a respected sport with commensurate prize money. He started RDF Productions which quickly became the mast head for the biggest and best tournaments of the late 1970's and early 1980's. He was producing $100,000 plus events when the next biggest tournaments might guarantee $25-30,000 in prize money. Richie changed everything! He got major sponsorship from major casinos (most notably Caesar's World) and beer companies like Budweiser also got onboard. He convinced ESPN to cover the events and thus make it attractive for the sponsors. Richie was a world class salesman for Pool!

Earl's first big win was at Caesar's Tahoe in 1982, when he defeated a field of 128 players, beating the legendary Steve Mizerak in the finals in the first event televised nationally by ESPN. Earl won $35,000 plus a new car valued at $14,000. That's almost forty years ago and it would still be a big prize today! Richie went on to stage several other events at Caesars properties, both in Atlantic City, Lake Tahoe and Las Vegas. He was well on his way to making pool a mainstream sport on TV.

Then along came Bill Cayton, the promoter of the Legends of Pool Series that was also shown on ESPN. He saw Richie as a threat and convinced the players to refuse to sign the standard television releases at Richie's next big tournament at Caesars Palace in 1984. Cayton told them they should be getting residuals for the repeated airings of the matches on ESPN, and they believed him. There never has been residuals for athletes in any sport and he misled them. At the time I was advised by a prominent television director (Jim Davis, who directed the Oscar telecasts among others) that the absolute best thing for our sport was the repeated airings of the matches. He said this is how you build stars and that will be what drives the game forward.

Unfortunately the players who were to appear that day in the final matches (Earl, Dallas West and Terry Bell) all refused to sign the releases and the matches (which were great) never aired on ESPN. By the way Earl won the tournament, beating Bell in the finals to the tune of $25,000! Everyone got paid but Richie lost his sponsorship and he never produced another major tournament. Cayton had succeeded in putting him out of business and he (Cayton) never produced the events he had promised to the pro players! Professional pool got a setback that it has never recovered from to this day! The players had turned their back on one of their own who was doing great things for them; a costly error they would make over and over again. Coincidently the same thing was to happen to me years later when the players boycotted my Los Angeles Open in 1993 at the behest of Don Mackey. I had produced the first LA Open in 1992 with a total purse of $140,000. Earl had won that one as well in front of crowds of well over 1,000 people. He pocketed $21,000 that year and Mark Tadd won $26,000 the following year ($160,000 purse!). Thanks to Mackey and the poor decision making by the players there was never another LA Open.

My failure at the funeral was not to acknowledge Richie for what he had done to better our sport, and how he was thwarted in his efforts. I had been his tournament director in every event from 1982 until 1984 and it was his mentoring that got me into promoting pool tournaments a few years later.

I owe Richie a great debt and so do all the pool players of my era. We failed him! He did not fail us!
That was really nice Jay. Well said.
 

jason

Unprofessional everything
Silver Member
Jay, another great post. Thank you for all you have done for pool.

I really didn't start playing until the late '80s and I missed most of the '70s and '80s pool scene. Pool, for me, was bar hustling and entertainment in the '90s. I had played Waterdog, Dallas, Price, Nevel and a few others back then. Usually getting the worst of it, so I stuck mostly to the low hanging fruit.

all of what jay said was right on the money. pool was cutthroat and still is.

I think we can all agree that cutthroat is fine in the form of competition. Cutthroat in this context means the pro's cut their own throats. This is a great post by Jay. It should be read by every pro player today, especially those under 30, in hopes that they collectively will not make the same mistakes.
 

j2pac

Marital Slow Learner.
Staff member
Moderator
Gold Member
Silver Member
Fantastic history Mr. Helfert. I am sure this is something that has been on your mind for awhile. It showed, in the passion that came through to me, as I read it.. I am sure that your friend/mentor is smiling from his afterlife. :)
Best regards.
Joe P.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I saw Richie play several times in the late 1970s and early 1980s, but it was only at straight pool and I don't recall ever meeting him. Sounds like it was a missed opportunity.

Richie never really learned how to play Straight Pool. He would have fit in more with these guys today who just break and run as many balls as they can. Richie would often run over 100 balls and be out of line a half dozen times on every rack. He just never missed! He was the straightest shooter of his era.
 

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
Well written Jay. However, you have always been good at stories and writing, so I'm not surprised.

I did have a question about an earlier post.

You mentioned a tip on a horse.

What is considered a tip on a horse?


Richie never really learned how to play Straight Pool. He would have fit in more with these guys today who just break and run as many balls as they can. Richie would often run over 100 balls and be out of line a half dozen times on every rack. He just never missed! He was the straightest shooter of his era.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Usually BS!

Well written Jay. However, you have always been good at stories and writing, so I'm not surprised.

I did have a question about an earlier post.

You mentioned a tip on a horse.

What is considered a tip on a horse?


You are just trading your questionable handicapping for someone else's unless it is a boat race! A friend who was a Louisiana based jockey got hurt very badly in St Louis. He couldn't draw unemployment or disability so he went to the track every day. Fairly well known, people would ask him for tips on the races. Hell, his guess wasn't much better than anyone else's but he would give everyone a different horse until he covered all of the halfway likely horses in the big races then he would hope winning betters would give him a little jelly.

John finally caught a ride home with one of the Romero boys who was a jockey. The doctor had loaded him up with pain pills and told him to check into a hospital when he got home. John was homesick and begging for a release. He gets in the car with the other jockey in St Louis, takes some pills and goes to sleep. When he wakes up the first thing he notices is a sign flashing by, Chicago next six exits or something similar. "What the hell are we doing in CHICAGO??"

"I can't read, this looked like the right way to me." John didn't sleep anymore that trip after waking up further away from home than when he went to sleep!

Hu
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jay, another great post. Thank you for all you have done for pool.

I really didn't start playing until the late '80s and I missed most of the '70s and '80s pool scene. Pool, for me, was bar hustling and entertainment in the '90s. I had played Waterdog, Dallas, Price, Nevel and a few others back then. Usually getting the worst of it, so I stuck mostly to the low hanging fruit.



I think we can all agree that cutthroat is fine in the form of competition. Cutthroat in this context means the pro's cut their own throats. This is a great post by Jay. It should be read by every pro player today, especially those under 30, in hopes that they collectively will not make the same mistakes.

Did you listen to advice when you were young, I sure as heck didn't , unless they showed me how to make money a way I never knew before .lol
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well written Jay. However, you have always been good at stories and writing, so I'm not surprised.

I did have a question about an earlier post.

You mentioned a tip on a horse.

What is considered a tip on a horse?

What I mean by that is that Richie had a horse that he thought would be a good one to bet on. Let's just say he was not the world's best handicapper. :)
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I wasn't aware of that history. Sounds like the players undermined themselves and other pool players for years to come by refusing to sign the release. ESPN has plenty of other stuff to show if you don't want to play by their rules.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I wasn't aware of that history. Sounds like the players undermined themselves and other pool players for years to come by refusing to sign the release. ESPN has plenty of other stuff to show if you don't want to play by their rules.

An important part of Richie's deal with ESPN was that they (ESPN) paid all the production costs, unlike the deals made later on by the WPBA and others, where they incurred the costs of production and not ESPN. Richie was a good negotiator for Pool. He believed that if his events could establish a strong television audience (good ratings), then the networks would start bidding to show more pool on TV, like they do with other major sports. In his mind, better ratings equated to more money for his tournaments. He wanted to see bigger purses for the pros and a real chance to make a living playing pool. He was a visionary, and a poolplayer at heart.

Pro pool had another good opportunity years later with the Camel Pro Tour. R.J Reynolds had plans to up the prize money in succeeding years, but the players aligned again with Mackey who wanted to make sure he got his share, and his greed led to the end of the Camel Pro Tour. Then there was the Trudeau saga, where a couple of high profile players convinced him (it took years of "massaging" his ego) to put up big money for a few tournaments. This was a case of a scammer getting scammed. There were a couple of good paydays before it all came crashing down. If the money had been invested more wisely something could have developed. Early on I advised that a pro tour of several 250-500K tournaments would be far better than one or two million dollar events. The television networks had expressed interest in a Pro Billiards Tour that could be shown weekly and not just an isolated event or two. The plan was not well thought out and was more of a quick money scheme than anything else. One player enriched himself and a several others got a big payday or two. Then it was over.
 
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alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
An important part of Richie's deal with ESPN was that they (ESPN) paid all the production costs, unlike the deals made later on by the WPBA and others, where they incurred the costs of production and not ESPN. Richie was a good negotiator for Pool. He believed that if his events could establish a strong television audience (good ratings), then the networks would start bidding to show more pool on TV, like they do with other major sports. In his mind, better ratings equated to more money for his tournaments. He wanted to see bigger purses for the pros and a real chance to make a living playing pool. He was a visionary, and a poolplayer at heart.

Pro pool had another good opportunity years later with the Camel Pro Tour. R.J Reynolds had plans to up the prize money in succeeding years, but the players aligned again with Mackey who wanted to make sure he got his share, and his greed led to the end of the Camel Pro Tour. Then there was the Trudeau saga, where a couple of high profile players convinced him (it took years of "massaging" his ego) to put up big money for a few tournaments. This was a case of a scammer getting scammed. There were a couple of good paydays before it all came crashing down. If the money had been invested more wisely something could have developed. Early on I advised that a pro tour of several 250-500K tournaments would be far better than one or two million dollar events. The television networks had expressed interest in a Pro Billiards Tour that could be shown weekly and not just an isolated event or two. The plan was not well thought out and was more of a quick money scheme than anything else. One player enriched himself and a several others got a big payday or two. Then it was over.

Thanks for the history lesson. When I'm in the gym - before the covid shut it down - they would have ESPN on and it was some guys sitting at a table flapping their jaws. I suspect I'm not the only one who would prefer to be watching pool.

Fund a tour with a weekly tournament. Replay it during the slow times during the week when the useless talking heads are on. Pool needs another Richie to convince the execs. I could see a guy like Filler becoming a star given how fast he plays and how easy he makes it look.
 

ibuycues

I Love Box Cues
Silver Member
I don't know where else to address this but here. I missed an opportunity years ago to salute one of my very important mentors. It was on the occasion of his funeral, and his name was Richie Florence. He was very well known in pool playing circles in the 60's and 70's as "Little Richie" from Torrance and California Richie.

To say Richie was a great player is an understatement. He was considered the absolute best 9-Ball player on the West Coast at that time, a reputation that went unchallenged until first Keith, then Swanee and finally Kim came along. The only man on the West Coast who could actually challenge Richie in his prime was Denny Searcy and they did battle a few times at the Billiard Palace in Bellflower, CA, long before there was a Hard Times. As good and fearless as Denny was, at some point he gave up trying to beat Richie at 9-Ball. Richie was maybe the only man I ever saw hang with Denny back then, who made mincemeat out of everyone else who dared to gamble with him. I will only add that Sigel and Hubbart avoided Denny and Louie got creamed when he tried him out.

Richie was in the top three or four players in the nation when talking about 9-Ball for a good ten to fifteen years. 9-Ball was definitely his specialty since that was the gambling game of choice back then to assert dominance on the pool table. Richie did not turn down a game with ANYONE, and the other top guns of his era (Billy Incardona, Bernie Schwartz, Wade Crane, Ed Kelly and Greg Stevens) were not anxious to tangle with him either. One time they snuck Jimmy Moore in on a young Richie and it backfired on them. When the top road men visited Los Angeles (Jimmy Marino, Larry Lisciotti, Jimmy Reid, Jimmy Fusco etc.) they gave Richie a wide berth. To even play him was to kill your action everywhere.

All that said, Richie grew tired of the pool hustling life and decided to become a promoter of professional pool and make it a respected sport with commensurate prize money. He started RDF Productions which quickly became the mast head for the biggest and best tournaments of the late 1970's and early 1980's. He was producing $100,000 plus events when the next biggest tournaments might guarantee $25-30,000 in prize money. Richie changed everything! He got major sponsorship from major casinos (most notably Caesar's World) and beer companies like Budweiser also got onboard. He convinced ESPN to cover the events and thus make it attractive for the sponsors. Richie was a world class salesman for Pool!

Earl's first big win was at Caesar's Tahoe in 1982, when he defeated a field of 128 players, beating the legendary Steve Mizerak in the finals in the first event televised nationally by ESPN. Earl won $35,000 plus a new car valued at $14,000. That's almost forty years ago and it would still be a big prize today! Richie went on to stage several other events at Caesars properties, both in Atlantic City, Lake Tahoe and Las Vegas. He was well on his way to making pool a mainstream sport on TV.

Then along came Bill Cayton, the promoter of the Legends of Pool Series that was also shown on ESPN. He saw Richie as a threat and convinced the players to refuse to sign the standard television releases at Richie's next big tournament at Caesars Palace in 1984. Cayton told them they should be getting residuals for the repeated airings of the matches on ESPN, and they believed him. There never has been residuals for athletes in any sport and he misled them. At the time I was advised by a prominent television director (Jim Davis, who directed the Oscar telecasts among others) that the absolute best thing for our sport was the repeated airings of the matches. He said this is how you build stars and that will be what drives the game forward.

Unfortunately the players who were to appear that day in the final matches (Earl, Dallas West and Terry Bell) all refused to sign the releases and the matches (which were great) never aired on ESPN. By the way Earl won the tournament, beating Bell in the finals to the tune of $25,000! Everyone got paid but Richie lost his sponsorship and he never produced another major tournament. Cayton had succeeded in putting him out of business and he (Cayton) never produced the events he had promised to the pro players! Professional pool got a setback that it has never recovered from to this day! The players had turned their back on one of their own who was doing great things for them; a costly error they would make over and over again. Coincidently the same thing was to happen to me years later when the players boycotted my Los Angeles Open in 1993 at the behest of Don Mackey. I had produced the first LA Open in 1992 with a total purse of $140,000. Earl had won that one as well in front of crowds of well over 1,000 people. He pocketed $21,000 that year and Mark Tadd won $26,000 the following year ($160,000 purse!). Thanks to Mackey and the poor decision making by the players there was never another LA Open.

My failure at the funeral was not to acknowledge Richie for what he had done to better our sport, and how he was thwarted in his efforts. I had been his tournament director in every event from 1982 until 1984 and it was his mentoring that got me into promoting pool tournaments a few years later.

I owe Richie a great debt and so do all the pool players of my era. We failed him! He did not fail us!

This is a very substantive commentary by you that actually contributes to the historical record, for all to see. Never too late, and much appreciated.

Will Prout
 
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