14.1 Stats -- John Schmidt's Run of 434 on Video, December 2018
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That is what I was thinking of when I used the "spinner" bowling ball example. It has a bit of forward motion, but a lot more spinning motion.
Here's a good visual illustration of the barrel-roll effect. When the striped ball is rolling with sidespin, the stripe is like the barrel:
NV B.10 - Drag spin loss and sidespin persistence, with spin-axis "flip"
Regards,
Dave
First of all, I'm very impressed with John's run, despite the fact that it is strictly an "exhibition" and he had made many, many attempts prior to this. Add in the table, the pockets, the cloth or anything else you want and I'm still very impressed. To run 434 balls is a remarkable feat on any table and I believe it to be the third highest witnessed run of all time.
That scratch on the cue ball after the final break shot is vexing to me for several reasons. First of all, how in the hell did that ball scratch? It took the strangest path as it neared the corner pocket. I've seen a lot of balls spinning like that before and I don't remember seeing any of them change course like that one did. I do think the extreme side spin plus some imperfections with the spots on the cue ball had an effect on the shot. I did note (thanks to Dan White) the cue ball wobble on it's final roll earlier in the run. That may have come into play here as well.
Interesting to me that on the one rack John decides to step in and re-rack, this is what happens. He also made an offhanded remark to the guy who had racked the balls and then this. Call it karma or whatever. The Pool Gods frown on such behavior. :grin:
I can only add that more than once when playing in a poker tournament, if I made a negative comment about a dealer (bad shuffle or whatever) it usually cost me chips soon afterwards. I've learned to keep my mouth shut and go with the flow. :yeah:
That scratch on the cue ball after the final break shot is vexing to me for several reasons. First of all, how in the hell did that ball scratch? It took the strangest path as it neared the corner pocket. I've seen a lot of balls spinning like that before and I don't remember seeing any of them change course like that one did. I do think the extreme side spin plus some imperfections with the spots on the cue ball had an effect on the shot. I did note (thanks to Dan White) the cue ball wobble on it's final roll earlier in the run. That may have come into play here as well.
Interesting to me that on the one rack John decides to step in and re-rack, this is what happens. He also made an offhanded remark to the guy who had racked the balls and then this. Call it karma or whatever. The Pool Gods frown on such behavior. :grin:
I can only add that more than once when playing in a poker tournament, if I made a negative comment about a dealer (bad shuffle or whatever) it usually cost me chips soon afterwards. I've learned to keep my mouth shut and go with the flow. :yeah:
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FYI, possible explanations and demonstrations can be found in this video:
NV J.16 - Did “Ball Turn” Deny John Schmidt (434) Willie Mosconi’s Straight Pool Record (526)?
and on the "ball turn" resource page.
Regards,
Dave
FYI, possible explanations and demonstrations can be found in this video:
NV J.16 - Did “Ball Turn” Deny John Schmidt (434) Willie Mosconi’s Straight Pool Record (526)?
and on the "ball turn" resource page.
Regards,
Dave
oh what a way to end the run
very very strange
very very strange
I would disagree with that statement, and previous issues with the cue ball moving after stopping on certain shots were proven by video evidence in an earlier post.
In the final rack this happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf9hRHdA0A8&feature=youtu.be&t=7462
John says "there is a string or something" on the cue ball, then cleans the cue ball with his glove and puts the ball back on the table with the glove.
He didn't get the "string or something" off the ball. The guy who was racking puts his white glove on the rail. He used those same gloves to clean the cue ball just prior to that rack which is probably how the "string or something" got on the ball - those white gloves weren't clean.
A "string or something" made the cue ball do that.
i notice his break shots always leave the cueball spinning alot, wonder why he adds so much for the break
it obviously works for him
seems like for me it could produce more bad than good, but im a terrible player
i've seen freak scratches like that, caused by excessive spin in relation to speed. i don't think it's table or dirt related, the ball seems to veer off course when the forward momentum of the ball is overtook (i don't know an antonym for exceeds) by the extreme spin
but what a bummer for it to happen during such a fine run. i hope he gives it another try, and that others follow suit.
but what a bummer for it to happen during such a fine run. i hope he gives it another try, and that others follow suit.
Much of that is "collision induced" spin.
I just re-watched this and the ball turns too much in too short distance. Spin alone, unless a masse, would not make it curve so abruptly. Must be a case of REVO-verspin. 
Did they check table level in that area or feel for stuff under the cloth? I'm not goin' for the spin doing all of it.
Did they check table level in that area or feel for stuff under the cloth? I'm not goin' for the spin doing all of it.
... also, because he is using some outside english on the shot (probably to minimize cut-induced throw), and since the CB loses much of its speed but doesn't lose spin when it hits the stack, the spin-to-speed ratio becomes very large (as with the near-stop shots in my analysis video).
Regards,
Dave
Dave, why don't you do some research into grain tracking the balls!
My Simonis 760HR was stretched very tight by the pockets, and there is some weave distortion. I'll see if I can demonstrate a clear "weave bend" effect. If I can, I'll post a follow-up video.
Thanks for the suggestion,
Dave
PS: I still think natural "ball turn" was the dominant effect with John's unfortunate scratch, as demonstrated in my video.
Just to be sure you cover all your bases, when you hit a spinning cue ball with the object ball, the axis of the spinning cue ball changes due to torque and Bernoulli. So your "slow spinning ball" after hitting it with another ball , and it significantly changes direction would have a different leading edge force than a slow spinning ball that wasn't hit by another ball.
Freddie <~~~ reliving a 20-year old discussion
New and broke in cloth track differently.