How exactly does the Billiard Congress Of America support the professional player?

StraightPoolIU · Sep 10, 2013

The thing that always blew me away about pool is there is no true governing body here in the United States like the USGA is in golf. The USGA and other sport governing bodies aren't trade organizations, tours, or a way to support the pros. They are governing bodies and protectors and promoters of their sport. They set legitimate standards in terms of equipment, rules, and amateur and professional status, they promote the game, its etiquette, and its development. Pool doesn't really have that and I doubt it ever will.

JAM · Sep 10, 2013

StraightPoolIU said:
The thing that always blew me away about pool is there is no true governing body here in the United States like the USGA is in golf. The USGA and other sport governing bodies aren't trade organizations, tours, or a way to support the pros. They are governing bodies and protectors and promoters of their sport. They set legitimate standards in terms of equipment, rules, and amateur and professional status, they promote the game, its etiquette, and its development. Pool doesn't really have that and I doubt it ever will.

That's what the BCA organization used to be: governing body.

On paper, they are still the governing body of professional pool in North America.

The BCA organization decided to cut bait and run away from professional pool years ago. There is no more BCA Open, as one example of many.

billy · Sep 10, 2013

cardiac kid said:
... Mark Griffin stated in one of his earlier posts he's getting tired of all the outside (JA / CW / LC) shenanigans. If Mark and Greg get to the point they give up on pro pool, you will be able to stick a fork in it because it will be dead!!!!! From my point of view, CSI and Diamond Billiard Products are the prime supporters of pro pool today

Mark and Greg are the sole supporters of pool imo. should also throw in Hopkins' once a year event

Certainly hope this fiasco with Tunica versus BB in Vegas didn't cause him to rethink Diamond's promotion and participation in future events

couldn't blame them if they did throw in the towel. not working together, saying one thing, BB, then without notice doing something different other than what was discussed

The pro players have no one but themselves to blame for their current situation

as soon as some of these American players realize that scamming one another, dumping one another, and other underhanded dealings are unacceptable then we may have a chance. there are few good guys left in ProPool, why beat them up and brush them aside?

potential sponsors can see and sense what's going on behind closed doors with American pool and these so called masterminds who know it all ( just ask them ) need to put the brakes on and realize there can be a tomorrow if they stop their BS today

WORKING TOGETHER PEOPLE, not individually may possibly have the results so many of us are striving for

Pool, billiards, and snooker are wonderful and beautiful true sports. Let's bring it to fruition America - let's bring it together

jmo

cardiac kid · Sep 10, 2013

billy said:
Mark and Greg are the sole supporters of pool imo. should also throw in Hopkins' once a year event

Billy,

Please don't forget about Mike Zuglan and the Onieda Native American Tribe. The Turning Stone Classic specifically and the Joss Northeast Nine Ball Tour in general have been some of the best pool events in America for years.

Lyn

billy · Sep 10, 2013

cardiac kid said:
Please don't forget about Mike Zuglan and the Onieda Native American Tribe. The Turning Stone Classic specifically and the Joss Northeast Nine Ball Tour in general have been some of the best pool events in America for years.

Lyn

just put up a quick reply Lyn :sorry: without a doubt Zuglan should be mentioned

good guy and an excellent player/promoter as well

CB Jones · Sep 10, 2013

StraightPoolIU said:
The thing that always blew me away about pool is there is no true governing body here in the United States like the USGA is in golf. The USGA and other sport governing bodies aren't trade organizations, tours, or a way to support the pros. They are governing bodies and protectors and promoters of their sport. They set legitimate standards in terms of equipment, rules, and amateur and professional status, they promote the game, its etiquette, and its development. Pool doesn't really have that and I doubt it ever will.

There has to be a way for the governing body to make money. Golfers pay the USGA for handicaps, courses pay to have their course officially rated, companies pay to have their equipment tested and the big money from the TV rights to the US Open.

Pool doesn't have any of these revenue generators right now. Hopefully in the future it will develop some.

StraightPoolIU · Sep 10, 2013

CB Jones said:
There has to be a way for the governing body to make money. Golfers pay the USGA for handicaps, courses pay to have their course officially rated, companies pay to have their equipment tested and the big money from the TV rights to the US Open.

Pool doesn't have any of these revenue generators right now. Hopefully in the future it will develop some.

Yes and they also sell little memberships where you can get a copy of the rules, a bag tag, a small magazine etc. It's not like pool couldn't have an organization that could do all of those things (or pool's version of them minus the big tv rights package at the moment) it's just that they never have as far as I know maybe because nobody ever tried it because these aren't the things a trade organization does. Instead the vaccum was populated with a bunch of amateur pool leagues all doing their own thing with their own magazines, handicaps, memberships etc that don't really try to grow or promote the game as a whole. I doubt the cat can ever be put back into the bag and everything organized like it should be to be honest.

CreeDo · Sep 10, 2013

sjm said:
Just a couple of weeks ago the finals of the Steinway Open in Queens, NY took place, a match that was streamed. The stream, understandably, had advertisements from companies offering financial support. The players were Hall of Famer Earl Strickland and rising star Jayson Shaw. Oddly enough, Jayson Shaw saw it fit to play the match wearing earphones. Why this was allowed at all in a "called shot" event is anyone's guess, so some of the blame must go to the organizers, but earphones tune out the audience, too, and they look ridiculous, not to mention unprofessional, on the stream.

Come on sjm, that's how you illustrate what's wrong with pool? Earphones?

How about Jayson smashing his jump cue?
Earl going on a bipolar rant and needling the crowd?
Players like JJ offering to "take it outside" or quitting mid-match on a paid stream over a call they don't like?
With that level of unprofessionalism, I dunno why earphones are even on the radar.

DogsPlayingPool · Sep 10, 2013

CreeDo said:
Come on sjm, that's how you illustrate what's wrong with pool? Earphones?

How about Jayson smashing his jump cue?
Earl going on a bipolar rant and needling the crowd?
Players like JJ offering to "take it outside" or quitting mid-match on a paid stream over a call they don't like?
With that level of unprofessionalism, I dunno why earphones are even on the radar.

Don't disagree with the things you mentioned, but headphones do have a place on the list of what's wrong.

CJ Wiley · Sep 10, 2013

I'm on board, the "signs" look really good from my perspective.

Jerry Forsyth said:
I am constantly bemused by these posts asking what the BCA is doing for pro pool. And, in particular, the references to industry "Fat Cats". What a joke. There are no Fat Cats in pool. There used to be, back in 2000 and before when we had 40,000,000 pool players in America contributing to that economy.

And back then those Fat Cats were shoveling over $500,000 per year into pro pool. And no one seems to remember that.

But times have changed. The number of players and pool rooms and retailers has been cut by half since 2000. Pool is in a death spiral and the companies that have managed to survive are doing so by cutting costs, not by looking for ways to spend money.

So what we need to ask is how are the pro players making themselves a viable alternative for the sponsorship buck? Remember, times have changed. Players can no longer expect a nice monthly check for just wearing a patch. But they do not seem to realize that.

If you see a player who is willing to work for his sponsors you will find a player with sponsors. I know of several cue companies who would sponsor someone who is willing to do just the tiniest amount of work. Like, instead of packing the cue case up and leaving after their match, a player who would go through the stands and show his cue to the fans and ask them if they like the balance of it and answer any questions that these potential buyers might have. Someone willing to earn a check like all of us must do.

Pool tournaments do not draw a lot of spectators. A lot less than they did years ago. So the reasons for sponsoring events and players have changed. It is time the players took the bull by the horns and made positive strides on their own. I know of no company that has been approached by the players or their union and presented with a long-term promotional plan.

The players need to stop looking for the easy way out and instead concentrate on what value they can add to the sponsors that make them attractive. There are a lot of unturned stones out there but many players keep waiting for someone else to lift the rocks.

The latest fiasco, Bonus Ball, is a perfect example of how the easy way out can strangle your ass. It has cost pro pool promoters and sponsors. And there are players who will indeed go back to Vegas if another investor can be found to keep the shop open another few weeks. None of them seem to realize that just hooking another investor is not a business plan. And there is still no visible viable business plan for BB. But they will return and get burned again and chase even more money out of the game if they get the chance. Short-term gain and long-term pain. It seems to be the norm in pro pool.

Taking the easy way out just gets you out. It does nothing to provide for the future.

I remember the "good ole days," Jerry....and the leaders of the industry did "shovel" significant money into tournaments, I have McDermott, Viking, Championship Cloth, Brunswick, Billiard Digest, Pool and Billiard Magazine, ESPN, Fox Sports etc all putting money in our televised events.

I agree with this post and that the Pros do need to evaluate what their "job" really is. In the beginning the greatest golfers gave lessons, sold Merch. and did other exhibitions to help their sponsors get recognition......looks like we all need to start helping the common agenda of promoting professional pool in whatever way we're capable.

I'm on board, the "signs" look really good from my perspective.

336Robin · Sep 11, 2013

I wouldnt know but..

CJ Wiley said:
I remember the "good ole days," Jerry....and the leaders of the industry did "shovel" significant money into tournaments, I have McDermott, Viking, Championship Cloth, Brunswick, Billiard Digest, Pool and Billiard Magazine, ESPN, Fox Sports etc all putting money in our televised events.

I agree with this post and that the Pros do need to evaluate what their "job" really is. In the beginning the greatest golfers gave lessons, sold Merch. and did other exhibitions to help their sponsors get recognition......looks like we all need to start helping the common agenda of promoting professional pool in whatever way we're capable.

I'm on board, the "signs" look really good from my perspective.

CJ,
Well I its hard to disagree with your statement above I bolded so what would one do?

If it were me guessing I would say a player association aimed at cleaning up the Pro image, giving sponsors exposure, providing good will of some kind towards amateurs would be the first thing I would think of...for someone who is considered a professional player.

Even then change isn't going to happen overnight. Realistically is something like what I'm mentioning even possible? Would anyone be interested?

CB Jones · Sep 11, 2013

336Robin said:
CJ,
Well I its hard to disagree with your statement above I bolded so what would one do?

If it were me guessing I would say a player association aimed at cleaning up the Pro image, giving sponsors exposure, providing good will of some kind towards amateurs would be the first thing I would think of...for someone who is considered a professional player.

Even then change isn't going to happen overnight. Realistically is something like what I'm mentioning even possible? Would anyone be interested?

I don't believe a players association is needed for this kind of change. What the players have to realize is the money comes from sponsors. Sponsors are looking to sell more product, so how can the players help the sponsors reach their goal.

It always surprises me how few players when given the chance to talk in front of a camera ever mention their sponsors or sponsors products. When given the chance these guys should be tell everyone how great their brand plays, the technology behind it, how much confidence they have in it & how much the support of company means to them.

Many of them do exhibitions, same rules apply. Hell I would even bring brochures and order forms in case anyone wanted to purchase the same equipment I had.

Once the sponsors see their sales numbers rise your value rises as well.

Island Drive · Sep 11, 2013

If you want to know specifically, their non profit information is by law available to the public, or you could directly contact Rob Johnsons secretary for assistance.

Good Luck....

(((Satori))) · Sep 11, 2013

SWithout fans the sport has nothing and just getting the sport on TV is not enough IMO.

For example, a deal could be made with ESPN where someone produces a program for ESPN if they air it for "free".

Is this win/win? I don't think so. What are we getting, horrible time slots, zero promotion, but wait... We get add space we can sell to sponsors for an over inflated price. Sure this will pump money into the tournaments and promoters pockets imediatly but will it gain us long term fans? What happens when the sponsors don't see results? What are the long term effects of this model of business?

Lets backtrack and take a look at what they get. Free programming to fill their unwanted time slots. It's good for them IMO and as long as we believe that is a fair offer ESPN won't offer us anymore.

So if the above is not the answer then how do we pump money into the game in a way that will generate long term success? It all starts with getting a Fanbase. To do this we need good time slots, we need promotion, and most of all we need good production. To understand what good production is you need to understand why people watch sports in the first place.

A question for the promoters... Why do people watch sports? I'll give you a hint, it is not so they can see robots run rack after rack effortlessly and show no emotion in the process, unless...

Imo the long term solution is to answer that question, produce a product that casual sports fans will watch, sell the product to the ANY decent TV station (this pumps a little money into the sport), then get sponsors for a sport that will actually be seen(Nother profit center) and keep repeating this process and investing in the sport. The fan base will grow, the sponsors wil multiply, and the demand for pool to be on specific stations will be realized.

CJ Wiley · Sep 11, 2013

It's not that we have a "bad" image, it's that we have no image at all

336Robin said:
CJ,
Well I its hard to disagree with your statement above I bolded so what would one do?

If it were me guessing I would say a player association aimed at cleaning up the Pro image, giving sponsors exposure, providing good will of some kind towards amateurs would be the first thing I would think of...for someone who is considered a professional player.

Even then change isn't going to happen overnight. Realistically is something like what I'm mentioning even possible? Would anyone be interested?

I don't think we need to clean up our image, on the contrary, I think we need to establish an image. If you ask 1000 mainstream Americans what the image of pocket billiards is they would give you a confused look and say "I have no idea".....

It's not that we have a "bad" image, it's that we have no image at all since we're not on TV as much anymore. That's how you create an image, with big media shows, and this is true across the board in the sports/gaming industry.

TheTalentASP · Sep 12, 2013

Upa

You missed UPA

Maniac · Sep 12, 2013

(((Satori))) said:
A question for the promoters... Why do people watch sports? I'll give you a hint, it is not so they can see robots run rack after rack effortlessly and show no emotion in the process, unless...

Imo the long term solution is to answer that question, produce a product that casual sports fans will watch,

So, by your reasoning, pool on television needs players that shoot as bad as I do, but act as bad as Earl Strickland does???

:grin::grin::grin:

Maniac (hell.....I'd watch it)

(((Satori))) · Sep 12, 2013

Maniac said:
So, by your reasoning, pool on television needs players that shoot as bad as I do, but act as bad as Earl Strickland does??? :grin::grin::grin:

Maniac (hell.....I'd watch it)

Not exactly.

CJ Wiley · Sep 12, 2013

Men's pocket billiards, on the other hand, has no image, it's the "vanilla flavor"

(((Satori))) said:
Not exactly.

When I talk to regular people about the image of pool they normally mention Jeanette Lee and associate her to the image of pool (the mention Allison as well). That's a huge step in the right direction, and just another example of how POWERFUL TV IS.......she's been on many different shows and leads everyone in that category. The women't tour has been on ESPN the most in the past years so many people think of it in terms of what they're exposed to.....this is the general public I'm talking about, not the regular pool fans.

Men's pocket billiards, on the other hand, has no image, it's the "vanilla flavor" of sports and games. We need to add some flavor to it asap. imho "The Black Widow" and Earl have been the exceptions the last few years....for different reasons of course.

The good news is we don't have the negative stigma attached to the men anymore, we've just been forgotten....which really is a positive thing if you think about it in those terms. 'The Game is the Teacher'

mark8950 · Sep 12, 2013

Billiard congress

I remember in the 70's that the bc was almost bankrupt....all the players were starting the ppa...and leaving the bc.......reason?.......the billiard congress has .....never.......done a thing for pool players......thats my opinion.....sparky

How exactly does the Billiard Congress Of America support the professional player?

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