2million for Qmasters....

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
Barry is getting older... He is wanting out.... I can't afford 2million although I could take it over and pay him on time..... As I am sure many of us could...

What I am wondering is could AZ form a corporation to buy it.....

I would throw $1000 towards a downpayment if the right people were in charge of the investment...

Could Qmasters lure Fleming out of New Jersey to set up cameras and take over management?

At a $1000 a share are there 200 members that would risk it? Thats just the 10% down...

Chris
 
Last edited:

trinacria

in efren we trust
Silver Member
Barry is getting older... He is wanting out.... I can't afford 2million although I could take it over and pay him on time..... As I am sure many of us could...

What I am wondering is could AZ form a corporation to buy it.....

I would throw $1000 towards a downpayment if the right people were in charge of the investment...

Could Qmasters lure Fleming out of New Jersey to set up camers and take over management?

At a $1000 a share are there 200 members that would risk it? Thats just the 10% down...

Chris

you might wanna check your math
 

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is Q def for sale? Is that def the price? Does that include " rights " to the US Open? I only ask cause im quite sure your much more in the know than I and I didn't hear anything bout this as of yet. Thanks MC Ren
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Q-Master Billiards, America’s largest billiards room, in Virginia Beach, VA is 25,000 square feet with 71 tables; Diamonds 7 and 9 foot, Brunswick Gold Crowns 9 foot, 12 Valley 7 foot, and one 3-cushion Gabriel 5x10 heated table, all in excellent or new condition. Also equipped with a full kitchen, 2 bars with a full Alcoholic Beverage License, a terrific landlord, a very fair monthly rent of under $15,000.00 which includes all common area maintenance, and parking for 550 spaces plus. The location is without a doubt the best in Hampton Roads, 3 blocks away from 2 major interstates and regardless of where you live on the Southside of Tidewater; you are only 15-20 minutes away from Q-Masters.

My next birthday in April I’ll be 69 years young and want to stay that way, young, as long as possible. My doctor tells me I’m in terrific condition but, with that being said, I also have to ask myself just how many “good years” do I really have left to do a lot more that I’ve not been able to due to being nailed to the “pool hall”. As excited as I am approaching “our” 39th annual U.S. Open, I also think a lot to live out my life in many different ways; traveling, visiting friends, family, and even playing a little pool. Maybe move to the Philippines and hang out with Efren, Buste, and a lot more. It sure was nice 4 years ago when I went for 2 weeks, not long enough.

I’m not going to “high roll” anyone interested by asking 3 million dollars but the very doable “fair price” of $2,000,000.00 and not a dollar less. This price is very palatable for both and again, very, very fair. It would be C.O.D. turn key, no headaches, any debt will be paid off prior, keep the name if you wish, change the name if you wish as that would be the buyer’s choice.

Again, the U.S. Open is not for sale at any price as I have huge plans for the 40th anniversary next October. What I mean by huge is just that with a lot of sponsorship outside the pool industry as well as inside. The market is endless for most everyone who plays, watches, or is involved with the game. I have great plans to leave pool one day in much better condition for the players and the industry. It’s an awful shame that pool players are in such poor conditions and shameful except for only a few and after all these years there’s no way I’m going to allow our sport and my life’s passion, now 49 years, in the shape it’s in. Just wait and see it will be worth the short wait.
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Two million W/O the building. 15K a month rent= 180k a year rent+ staff, insurance, and misc to run= about 250k+ to run a year.

71 used tables=maybe 150k. The rest of used equipment=maybe 150k. That's asking a ton of good will. Count me out of any corp to buy the business. Johnnyt
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
Two million W/O the building. 15K a month rent= 180k a year rent+ staff, insurance, and misc to run= about 250k+ to run a year.

71 used tables=maybe 150k. The rest of used equipment=maybe 150k. That's asking a ton of good will. Count me out of any corp to buy the business. Johnnyt

This is one way to look at it, although I sort of doubt there is $300,000 in liquidated value in highly used equipment.

The other is based on profitability. Basically the company would have to generate a profit of $42,500 per month for 5 years to pay for itself based on a high-risk 10% annual interest rate. So the monthly business revenues would have to equal $42,500 + expenses to break even on the purchase based on a 10% cost of money. This may be different based on what portion of the purchase price is deductible, assuming the business incurred the debt. If an investor made up the difference, after 5 years anything short of that would be your actual investment. Anything over that would be your return.
 
Last edited:

Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
What's a company like a store or a pool hall worth?

Generalizing one can say between 50% and 75% of the annual turnover
or 4-5 times the annual net profit. This is for a healthy, stable company, if it is running
on fumes then more likely just the actual value of the items owned by the company, but
on the other side if business has been growing really fast for a year or two then it will
be worth more.

I am not familiar with Qmasters annual turnover or profit but I doubt it is in the 3-4 million
range for the turnover or 400k range for the profit.

gr. Dave
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
What's a company like a store or a pool hall worth?

Generalizing one can say between 50% and 75% of the annual turnover
or 4-5 times the annual net profit. This is for a healthy, stable company, if it is running
on fumes then more likely just the actual value of the items owned by the company, but
on the other side if business has been growing really fast for a year or two then it will
be worth more.

I am not familiar with Qmasters annual turnover or profit but I doubt it is in the 3-4 million
range for the turnover or 400k range for the profit.

gr. Dave

Many businesses like this don't show any profit since there is no tax incentive to do so. My assumption would be that it would be difficult to verify any stated revenues.
 

Chicagoplayer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
He doesn't mention-

Q-Master Billiards, America’s largest billiards room, in Virginia Beach, VA is 25,000 square feet with 71 tables; Diamonds 7 and 9 foot, Brunswick Gold Crowns 9 foot, 12 Valley 7 foot, and one 3-cushion Gabriel 5x10 heated table, all in excellent or new condition. Also equipped with a full kitchen, 2 bars with a full Alcoholic Beverage License, a terrific landlord, a very fair monthly rent of under $15,000.00 which includes all common area maintenance, and parking for 550 spaces plus. The location is without a doubt the best in Hampton Roads, 3 blocks away from 2 major interstates and regardless of where you live on the Southside of Tidewater; you are only 15-20 minutes away from Q-Masters.

My next birthday in April I’ll be 69 years young and want to stay that way, young, as long as possible. My doctor tells me I’m in terrific condition but, with that being said, I also have to ask myself just how many “good years” do I really have left to do a lot more that I’ve not been able to due to being nailed to the “pool hall”. As excited as I am approaching “our” 39th annual U.S. Open, I also think a lot to live out my life in many different ways; traveling, visiting friends, family, and even playing a little pool. Maybe move to the Philippines and hang out with Efren, Buste, and a lot more. It sure was nice 4 years ago when I went for 2 weeks, not long enough.

I’m not going to “high roll” anyone interested by asking 3 million dollars but the very doable “fair price” of $2,000,000.00 and not a dollar less. This price is very palatable for both and again, very, very fair. It would be C.O.D. turn key, no headaches, any debt will be paid off prior, keep the name if you wish, change the name if you wish as that would be the buyer’s choice.

Again, the U.S. Open is not for sale at any price as I have huge plans for the 40th anniversary next October. What I mean by huge is just that with a lot of sponsorship outside the pool industry as well as inside. The market is endless for most everyone who plays, watches, or is involved with the game. I have great plans to leave pool one day in much better condition for the players and the industry. It’s an awful shame that pool players are in such poor conditions and shameful except for only a few and after all these years there’s no way I’m going to allow our sport and my life’s passion, now 49 years, in the shape it’s in. Just wait and see it will be worth the short wait.
________________________________________________________

71 tables... though he doesn't mention how many of each of the 9 footers he has.

www.facebook.com/raisingthehustler
@raisingthehustl
#raisingthehustler
#poolordie
 
Last edited:

Chip Roberson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Only way that it could succeed , if the Open went with the buy out,,The money to be made would be with the Open.
 

lakeman77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
it's only about how much your return on investment is. otherwise just buy another business.
my guess would be 2-3X net earnings.
you would have to sit in the place for a month and count the money coming in. it's a cash business.
ask guys who own restaurants, they would know best how to value it.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
The room is ONLY worth the value of the tables/equipment/liquor license. That's it. No multiples on EBITA / revenue as there's zero lock on future revenue. Otherwise, I could open a brand new shiny hot room two doors down for the cost of the hard assets in his room. Not worth CLOSE to 2mil but there's a sucker born every day. Hard asset value is what that biz is worth. Sorry.
 

yelvis111

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've always thought that the asking price of a business is determined by hard asset value and some multiple (goodwill) of the gross monthly revenue. If we value the hard assets at $300K ($150K for the tables + $150 for the bar and kitchen equipment), then we can estimate the gross monthly revenue to calculate the goodwill.

If we assume every table is played for 5 hours/day by 2 players at a time, that's 73 tables x $10 x 5 hrs x 30 days = $109.5K.

If each player plays an average of 2 hours/day, that's (73 tables x 5 hours)/2 player = 183 players in a day. If each of those players spends $10 in F&B, that's another 183 players x $10 x 30 days = $54.9K.

If two non-players come in for each pair of players and spends $20, that's 183 non-players x $20 x 30 days = $109.8K.

So total monthly revenue = $110K time + $55K player_spend + $110K non_player_spend = $275K.

SO, ($2M - $300K)/$275K = a goodwill of around 6.2 times the gross monthly income.

Seems way overvalued to me, particularly when you take Spidey's quote into consideration:

The room is ONLY worth the value of the tables/equipment/liquor license. That's it. No multiples on EBITA / revenue as there's zero lock on future revenue. Otherwise, I could open a brand new shiny hot room two doors down for the cost of the hard assets in his room. Not worth CLOSE to 2mil but there's a sucker born every day. Hard asset value is what that biz is worth. Sorry.

Taek
 
Last edited:

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The room is ONLY worth the value of the tables/equipment/liquor license. That's it. No multiples on EBITA / revenue as there's zero lock on future revenue. Otherwise, I could open a brand new shiny hot room two doors down for the cost of the hard assets in his room. Not worth CLOSE to 2mil but there's a sucker born every day. Hard asset value is what that biz is worth. Sorry.

I doubt it's worth the 2 million too but I think you're a bit off here. Certainly a proven business is worth more than just their assets don't you think? Would you say the same thing for a restaurant? A motel? A gas station?

I'm not an MBA so don't hurt me.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I doubt it's worth the 2 million too but I think you're a bit off here. Certainly a proven business is worth more than just their assets don't you think? Would you say the same thing for a restaurant? A motel? A gas station?

I'm not an MBA so don't hurt me.
Not for a poolroom. With a restaurant, the draw is the cook/food. With a poolroom, it's pool/liquor, which is easily replicated. I wouldnt trust the book keeping over there, so that's another reason. The value of any pool room is the hard asset. There is no loyalty with pool players and they'll flock to the best equipment for thr best value with the least expensive alcohol.

Meaning, you run the risk of buying the room for 2 big ones and then have someone open a HOT room down the street and then you go bankrupt overnight because you can't afford a room face-lift because you're so over-extended on your 2mil nut.

That's why it's only worth the hard asset value.

Dave
 

Mr. Bond

Orbis Non Sufficit
Gold Member
Silver Member
Create a 501c3, turn it into a museum or hall of fame, fill it with relics, enjoy tax exempt status, fundraising potential and increased tourism.
 
Top