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GoldCrown
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06-15-2018, 06:12 PM

I use Bob Smith CA...$8.00 for 2oz on Amazon.

If the the tips are falling off now and after 6 months...

Using enough glue?
Flat clean rough sanded surfaces?
Go to the source Use new glue. You said your glue was new but that does not mean anything.
If it only happening with a certain tip it's a materials issue. Try a different tip.
Did you change technique?




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06-15-2018, 08:47 PM

Fresh Ca helps. For some ferrules the PU glues do work, or toughened epoxies.
406 loctite for difficult to bond materials works very well, as does the 454.
Having Flat surfaces on the ferrule and the tip is important. If the tip can rock even the slightest amount when put against the ferrule when dry before gluing, chances are it will fail at some point. I used to sand with 120 or so grit. Have not done so since speaking with Royce about tips, so went to using fine paper , 400 grit for the tips. Also changed to the priming of tips, so put a thin layer of glue on the tip, let it dry, sand back flat then glue. The primer/accelerator only needs to be on the ferrule surface. I wait until it has dried before placing the tip. Either use the spray, or in my case a q tip (cotton bud for the English) and wipe a very thin layer on the flat ferrule surface. Also found that having the paper bonded to a flat surface, made things a lot easier, than having the paper sitting on a flat surface. Thin double sided tape is good. The paper strip only needs to be like 5/8 or 3/4 inch wide, same width as the thin double sided tape.


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Kim Bye
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06-16-2018, 01:05 PM

By looking at the pictures, I think I see several problems.

1. Ferrules are not properly faced off.
2. Tips aren`t sanded flat, sealed with CA, then sanded flat again
3. I suspect no denatured alcohol was used to remove grease or dirt from the two surfaces before gluing.

Spend money on a quality CA, Loctite 401 and 454 both works great. My experiences with B.S.I are mixed, I like their epoxies though



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06-16-2018, 04:47 PM

Thanks guys for the answers! Will help me alot!

But I need a little bit explanation about a few words and abbrevations. What do you mean with CA? Is this fluid glue like Loctite 401?

Quote:
but small scores on any glues surface will help with bonding.
Quote:
don't score the ferrule
What do you mean with scores/score? Google translater can't help me with this verb/word

...and...
Quote:
If the tip can rock even the slightest amount when put against the ferrule when dry before gluing, chances are it will fail at some point.
"rock"?! You mean sliding around?


And guys, only put a thin layer of super glue on the tip, not the ferrule, right?
  
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06-16-2018, 05:21 PM

Medium Atlas Super Glue. Atlas Cynos are not diluted at all. Much cheaper also than locktite per unit volume by a factor of 10x also.

If you lap the tip and scuff the ferrule face, use this glue and the tip come off, quit cue repair for life. LOL



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06-16-2018, 05:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eNkel View Post
Thanks guys for the answers! Will help me alot!

But I need a little bit explanation about a few words and abbrevations. What do you mean with CA? Is this fluid glue like Loctite 401?



What do you mean with scores/score? Google translater can't help me with this verb/word

...and...

"rock"?! You mean sliding around?


And guys, only put a thin layer of super glue on the tip, not the ferrule, right?
CA is short for CyanoAcrylate, what we commonly call "superglue"
If you score the ferrule, you cut a few thin lines with a razorblade. I prefer two perfectly flat surfaces, in my experence, scoring the ferrule does not help, and you could potentially weaken the ferrule.
Sand the tip flat, put a few drops of CA on the tip, let it dry, sand it flat again, rinse the back of the tip and the ferrule with denatured alcohol. When it`s dry, you can glue the tip to the ferrule.



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Last edited by Kim Bye; 06-17-2018 at 08:25 AM.
  
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06-16-2018, 06:53 PM

Here is a short video showing how rough vs smooth surfaces affects bonding of super glues. Pay attention at the 1:16 mark...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7deOOmrxBM
Roughing a ferrule facing only weakens it, it may help with shear forces, but that's not what we need the most when gluing a tip on.
Everyone has their own way, but IMHO, smooth is the way to go.
Dave

Last edited by Dave38; 06-16-2018 at 06:55 PM.
  
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Muffin Top
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Muffin Top - 06-17-2018, 05:53 AM

Here's my trick. Bottom line both glue surfaces must be faced, Willards tip tool always works, if you do it this way. Problem I see Nowadays, is layered tips have no Crown. This is where the problem lies, along with squishing glue with a tool made for this procedure.

Once both surfaces are faced equally, they must have the proper ''scratch coat''. Same thinking as a drywall or cement work. The grit of the sandpaper on the wheel is (PS22 in on the back of mine I just looked) is critical, it sets the depths of the glue. You don't want too fine or too coarse of a scratch coat. Like another said some tips/leather soak up more glue.

Ok, here's the trick....before you face up/glue the tip to the ferrule, attach with Very little glue, a tip with a crown to the top of your layered tip that has NO crown yet?
Next, on the layered tip apply an amount of glue that is a little too much. Touch tip/glue to ferrule facing, rotating tip/ferrule to make sure both surfaces are WET with glue.

CRITICAL....

Center tip as best you can by eye. Once it's centered....grab shaft, hold joint end at 12 o'clock and drop/bounce one time, lightly the tip off the counter, floor or any hard surface....ONCE....re-center the tip and let dry. There is a nice EQUAL layer of glue between tip/ferrule, not compromised by a vice type tool. If the tip is flat, your NOT ABLE to do the drop squish/muffin top, it won't work. You must have a tip with a crown.

You'll notice....Now, the tip has a muffin top of glue sticking out all the way around, perfect. What you actually have done is ''hydraulically'' by Dropping the tip to a hard surface, you have burped out any possible air bubbles and evenly spread the glue amount to each face.

Muffin Glue.... no problem

What to do with the muffin top of glue? I use SG gel and in 20 minutes I'll take a piece of tin foil, wrap it around the shaft below the muffin top, then slid upward and turn the shaft removing all the muffin glue, thus not allowing it to get on the shaft or ferrule.

That's how I do it.


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06-17-2018, 07:22 AM

Here are my conclusions after reading this thread.

Super glue is amazing stuff and damned near anything you do with it will probably work.

Or might fail.

There can't be this big of a variety and opposing techniques of the right way to do it for an actual right way to exist. If it works for you keep doing it. Until it doesn't then try something else.

JC


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tall drop of glue - 06-17-2018, 09:09 AM

One of the first things I noticed, is you talk of spreading the CA. It should not be spread! By doing this you will loose holding power. Prime all non padded tips. I like to give each tip a nice deep breath of air onto them. CA likes this moisture. Then a good tall drop of CA. When you push the tip onto the ferrule, the glue will spread. Apply your pressure. Wipe off all your excess glue. If taped, take it off. I like to leave the tip over night before trimming. CA takes about 24 hours to completely cure.

Fresh CA, keep it in your refrigerator.
Sand FLAT, tips and ferrule.
Prime all non padded tips.
Do not spread your CA, a good tall drop, moisture in your breath and air help it cure.
Let the glue cure before trimming.
  
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06-17-2018, 09:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eNkel View Post
Hey!

So, I'm installing cue tips without a lathe since more than a year now and I had never a problem like this before
So what did you change if the problem just started.

What others said

Face, clean, proper amount of CA glue, get tip on quickly in proper position.
I will not contradict what techniques others use. But what I do. Gently sand the ferrule. Sand tip on a flat rigid surface using 80 grit. I apply some CA to tip...take tip and quickly but not wildly spread some of the glue onto the ferrule and apply. Before putting glue on tip...Wrap outside ferrule with blue tape to keep glue off of it. Remove tape as soon as you are satisfied with tip position. Can I suggest you watch a few YouTube videos ..there are plently of them.




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Case:JB 4/8 Hybrid
Favorite Game...Pocket a Piece
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06-21-2018, 07:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave38 View Post
First thing is....don't score the ferrule, CA works best with 2 very flat and smooth surfaces.
That^. I cringe when I see people scuffing the ferrule. The problems people find with CA is usually not the CA. If you don't have a lathe and/or the knowledge & ability to install tips with CA, you really should be using something else. Epoxy and poly glues do well with ill-fitting surfaces. Contact cement is a classic tip glue.

Think about your rear view mirror. It's a piece of flat, shiny metal bonded to polished glass. It's done so with CA glue. If you cannot produce that level of smooth/flat surface on your tips & ferrule, then you shouldn't be using CA.


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06-27-2018, 08:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim Bye View Post
CA is short for CyanoAcrylate, what we commonly call "superglue"
If you score the ferrule, you cut a few thin lines with a razorblade. I prefer two perfectly flat surfaces, in my experence, scoring the ferrule does not help, and you could potentially weaken the ferrule.
Sand the tip flat, put a few drops of CA on the tip, let it dry, sand it flat again, rinse the back of the tip and the ferrule with denatured alcohol. When it`s dry, you can glue the tip to the ferrule.
Here's the reply from the Loctite company:

Response From Henkel Corporation - Ref # 000781373A


Dear Tom:

Thank you for e-mailing Henkel Corporation. We appreciate your interest in our products.

A roughened surface would be recommended for bonding and will created better adhesion.

For questions, comments or suggestions, please feel free to call us at (800) 624-7767, Monday through Friday, between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time; or visit us on the Web at www.loctiteproducts.com or www.ositough.com.

Thank you for your inquiry. I hope you find this information helpful.

Sincerely,
Andrew I.
Consumer Relations Representative
Henkel Corporation
  
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06-27-2018, 04:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom1234 View Post
Here's the reply from the Loctite company:

Response From Henkel Corporation - Ref # 000781373A


Dear Tom:

Thank you for e-mailing Henkel Corporation. We appreciate your interest in our products.

A roughened surface would be recommended for bonding and will created better adhesion.

For questions, comments or suggestions, please feel free to call us at (800) 624-7767, Monday through Friday, between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time; or visit us on the Web at www.loctiteproducts.com or www.ositough.com.

Thank you for your inquiry. I hope you find this information helpful.

Sincerely,
Andrew I.
Consumer Relations Representative
Henkel Corporation
Not sure why I was quoted? If I sand the back of the tip flat, I rough the surface up by the fact that I use 240 grit and 400 grit sandpaper. Scoring the ferrule is still not necessary. The ferrule itself is faced off with carbide insert tools and in many cases I dont really touch the ferrule itself, with a lathe you can do thin enough passes, as to just remove the old CA.
I`ve done thousands of tips this way on all types of ferrule materials, capped and uncapped, so it`s a method that simply works.



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06-27-2018, 08:09 PM

I think you should put glue on both the tip and the ferrule not just the ferrule.
Give it a few seconds to penetrate into the leather before joining it to the ferrule.
  
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