1974 14.1 Invitational Championship

[sjm]

Especially Rempe, even though Pete was a 14.1 specialist and Rempe spread his playing out into 9 ball also, along w/ some 1P.
SJM, could you offer a brief comment on Rempe vs Margo in the 14.1 pantheon?

Sorry for the delayed response, Terry.

Pete Margo's greatest accomplishments came in the 1979 PPPA World 14.1 championships in New York City, in which he ran, if memory serves, six different centuries, including one of them in a classic match he had with Joe Balsis, who ran 100+ and out immediately after Pete's run. I think Pete, despite his stellar play, only finished fourth that year, but the greatness of his performance will never be forgotten by those of us who, like me, were there. Margo was every bit Rempe's equal, but I'd rate Rempe's straight pool patterns as a little more textbook than Pete's.

Rempe's is a sad story, and he'd surely have captured at least one World 14.1 championship if straight pool had remained the game's most important discipline. We all know what happened in 1974, but I also remember vividly how Rempe was in dead punch in the 1981 PPPA World 14.1 Championships. He had Mike Sigel in big trouble in a late round match, well past 100 with Sigel at 21. In one of the greatest matches that I've ever witnessed, Sigel ran 129 and out to eliminate Jimmy that year, which was looking like it might be Jimmy's year.

Pete and Jimmy couldn't have picked a tougher period in which to compete at 14.1. Their contemporaries included Steve Mizerak, Mike Sigel, Dallas West, Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins and Ray Martin, all of whom I feel were a notch over Pete and Jimmy. Then there was a group that played a hair below these, including Dan DiLiberto, Lou Butera, Jack Colavita and a few others, and I think Margo and Rempe should, by every right, be counted among this group of secondary threats. Old timers Joe Balsis, Irving Crane, and John Ervolino still played well in Pete's day, but I am inclined to view them as belongng to an earlier era of straight pool.

Pete and Jimmy, on reflection, hit them pretty sporty, and should be remembered as superstars of straight pool.

 

[bud green]

Rempe claimed that ball skidded and he probably never hit that shot the same way since. That he will always remember the pain of seeing it miss is 100% certain.

I could be wrong, but I believe he mentions that miss on his player review tape where he schools Ginky at 14.1.

 

[George Fels]

She's in the WPBA Hall of Fame too, SJM, in addition to being one of my best friends on earth. (Palmer actually discovered me as a pool writer.) She lives outside Hartford, CT, has a college-age daughter, and still plays pool in leagues. GF

 

[sjm]

SJM, in addition to being one of my best friends on earth, Palmer actually discovered me as a pool writer.

Now there's some pool history of which I was unaware! Palmer, on reflection, really gave a lot to our game. Hope you're well, George, and that our paths cross soon. --- Stu

 

[Cornerman]

Sorry for the delayed response, Terry.

Pete Margo's greatest accomplishments came in the 1979 PPPA World 14.1 championships in New York City, in which he ran, if memory serves, six different centuries, including one of them in a classic match he had with Joe Balsis, who ran 100+ and out immediately after Pete's run. I think Pete, despite his stellar play, only finished fourth that year, but the greatness of his performance will never be forgotten by those of us who, like me, were there. Margo was every bit Rempe's equal, but I'd rate Rempe's straight pool patterns as a little more textbook than Pete's.

Rempe's is a sad story, and he'd surely have captured at least one World 14.1 championship if straight pool had remained the game's most important discipline. We all know what happened in 1974, but I also remember vividly how Rempe was in dead punch in the 1981 PPPA World 14.1 Championships. He had Mike Sigel in big trouble in a late round match, well past 100 with Sigel at 21. In one of the greatest matches that I've ever witnessed, Sigel ran 129 and out to eliminate Jimmy that year, which was looking like it might be Jimmy's year.

Pete and Jimmy couldn't have picked a tougher period in which to compete at 14.1. Their contemporaries included Steve Mizerak, Mike Sigel, Dallas West, Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins and Ray Martin, all of whom I feel were a notch over Pete and Jimmy. Then there was a group that played a hair below these, including Dan DiLiberto, Lou Butera, Jack Colavita and a few others, and I think Margo and Rempe should, by every right, be counted among this group of secondary threats. Old timers Joe Balsis, Irving Crane, and John Ervolino still played well in Pete's day, but I am inclined to view them as belongng to an earlier era of straight pool.

Pete and Jimmy, on reflection, hit them pretty sporty, and should be remembered as superstars of straight pool.

Where would you rank Marino and Lisciotti?

Fred

 

[gulfportdoc]

One more of the great Ronnie Allen. Sitting in "Fast Eddie's" Billiard Room

Hambone, that must have been the room that had formerly been owned by a guy named Coke, called "Big Momma's". I frequented the joint in '69-'70 when Coke owned it. I heard later that RA owned it, but I doubt that he had the whole thing. Don't know for sure.

Doc

 

[Ken_4fun]

She's in the WPBA Hall of Fame too, SJM, in addition to being one of my best friends on earth. (Palmer actually discovered me as a pool writer.) She lives outside Hartford, CT, has a college-age daughter, and still plays pool in leagues. GF

Wow, I consider myself a student of pool and dont know much about here. For you folks who know her, can we get some pics (then and now) and some information on her?

One of the saddest stories IMO is Jean Bulkus. A woman that is 20 years ahead of her time. Imagine her playing Jeanette, Alison, etc today. I think that that is the key to ANY great rivalery. Bird and Magic, Russell and Chamberlin, and Earl and Efren, even Alison and Jeanette to a point.

To be great you need a great rivalery.

Ken

 

[Danny Kuykendal]

Wayne played in the '74 open just before we started practicing straight pool together at the Cue and Cushion in Anaheim.

Wayne did finish fourth in the Stardust open in about 1972 or so (double elimination event), played in the '73 Invitational and only won a couple of matches, but in '74 he finished 10th with a 10 and 8 record or 8 and 10, he'll have to let me know which it was. He was definitely a force to be reconned with, beating Lou Butera and Irving Crane in '73, and Rempe, Hopkins and Allen in '74, not to mention a several others.

Wayne and I had one thing in common, we always put a steady job ahead of any kind of pool playing. I think he did great despite his lack of competition experience and his full time job.

Wayne was one of the west coast representatives for straight pool, along with Richie Florence (I think) and Ronnie Allen. He was also a good friend of Fred Walen.

 

[sjm]

Where would you rank Marino and Lisciotti?

Fred

I hardly ever watched Steve Marino play, but on reputation, my sense is he'd be in the next tier of straight poolers. Like many players of his day, he worked full time, having been an insurance salesman.

Lisciotti, who I watched many times, is a tricky one. I was there when he outlasted Mizerak in Asbury Park, New Jersey, to win the 1976 PPPA World 14.1 Championships. He looked like a twenty-something with a big future, but he never really backed up that stellar effort, a non-factor in any of the next few PPPA World 14.1 Championships.

As I'm doing this from memory, I'm sure to leave some relevant names out, but here's a shot at defining the game's top three tiers among those who played their best pool in that period, meaning from about 1975-85 (I am omitting guys like Balsis, Crane, Lassiter, and Ervolino even though they still played 14.1 very well late in their careers.)

Tier 1: The Greats (the guys you really didn't want in your draw)
Steve Mizerak
Mike Sigel
Dallas West
Ray Martin
Allen Hopkins
Nick Varner

Tier 2: Good Enough to Win 14.1 Titles but not the Best
Dan DiLiberto
Lou Butera
Jack Colavita
Pete Margo
Jim Rempe
Frank McGown

Tier 3: Superb 14.1 Players but Longshots to Win Titles
Steve Marino
Larry Lisciotti
Ernie Costa
Richie Florence
Earl Herring
Pat Fleming
Jimmy Fusco
Jose Garcia

That's my best shot at it, and I'm sure others will see things differently.

 

[Hambone]

Here are pics of all the women players. Mieko Harada won the ladies
tournament and was awarded $2000. Jean Balukas finished 2nd and was awarded $1000.

 

[Cornerman]

I hardly ever watched Steve Marino play, but on reputation, my sense is he'd be in the next tier of straight poolers. Like .

I was talking about Hippie Jimmy Marino. Is there a Steve Marino (other than some golfer)?

Fred

 

[jay helfert]

Hambone, that must have been the room that had formerly been owned by a guy named Coke, called "Big Momma's". I frequented the joint in '69-'70 when Coke owned it. I heard later that RA owned it, but I doubt that he had the whole thing. Don't know for sure.

Doc

Ronnie, Cokes and Lenny Moore were partners in that room. All the money in the register was always in play there. This was not a recreational pool room. It was a place to gamble, cut up scores and plan nefarious activities. Of course I was never a part of any of that. :grin:

 

[jay helfert]

JIMMY Marino was a top player back then. And he could play 14.1. Jimmy and Larry Lisciotti were high level players, capable of beating anyone. Jimmy Fusco and Jim Mataya were also strong Straight Pool guys. I'd put these four guys in about the same class, championship level players, but just a hair under the Mizerak, Sigel, Martin, Hopkins, Margo and REMPE group. They were almost on a par with Varner, Butera, West, Colavita and Diliberto. Maybe the only difference being these four were not as dedicated to Straight Pool, preferring "action" back then.

The 14.1 fields of that era were very deep and laden with champions. Straight Pool Championships were still a big deal back then, and all the East Coast players grew up learning the game. I've always felt that's what made them such strong all around players, the background they got in 14.1.

Ervolino, Jersey Red, and Shorty were still factors back then. All could play 14.1 and grew up with the game. Gene Nagy was as good as anyone alive, but rarely made an appearance. His temperament was not suited to tournament pool. I emboldened Rempe because my opinion is he belongs in the top group of 14.1 players of his era. I rate him right behind Mizerak and Sigel, equal to Hopkins.

 

[sjm]

JIMMY Marino.....Gene Nagy was as good as anyone alive, but rarely made an appearance...... His temperament was not suited to tournament pool.

Guess I don't remember Jimmy Marino. Steve Marino was a very solid straight pooler from Queens NY, who often gave the premier players as much as they could handle. Steve was one of the stars of the Eastern States tour in the early 1970's, but, as I noted, I barely ever saw him play. I just looked at the program from the 1978 PPPA World 14.1 Championships, and in the blurb about Steve, it mentions that he came 10th in the 1976 event won by Lisciotti.

As for Nagy, 1974, the year on which this thread focuses, was the year he retired from competition. Another great player from the New York City area of that period whose best game seemed to elude him in the biggest competitions was George Mikula.

 

[jay helfert]

Guess I don't remember Jimmy Marino. Steve Marino was a very solid straight pooler from Queens NY, who often gave the premier players as much as they could handle. Steve was one of the stars of the Eastern States tour in the early 1970's, but, as I noted, I barely ever saw him play. I just looked at the program from the 1978 PPPA World 14.1 Championships, and in the blurb about Steve, it mentions that he came 10th in the 1976 event won by Lisciotti.

As for Nagy, 1974, the year on which this thread focuses, was the year he retired from competition.

Jimmy Marino was from Pittsburgh and no relation to Steve. I remember Steve too, and he was not the player Jimmy was. Not even in Straight Pool.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

JIMMY Marino was a top player back then. And he could play 14.1. Jimmy and Larry Lisciotti were high level players, capable of beating anyone. Jimmy Fusco and Jim Mataya were also strong Straight Pool guys. I'd put these four guys in about the same class, championship level players, but just a hair under the Mizerak, Sigel, Hopkins, Margo and REMPE group. They were almost on a par with Varner, Butera, West, Colavita and Diliberto. Maybe the only difference being these four were not as dedicated to Straight Pool, preferring "action" back then.

The 14.1 fields of that era were very deep and laden with champions. Straight Pool Championships were still a big deal back then, and all the East Coast players grew up learning the game. I've always felt that's what made them such strong all around players, the background they got in 14.1.

Ervolino, Jersey Red and Shorty were still factors back then. All could play 14.1 and grew up with the game. Gene Nagy was as good as anyone alive, but rarely made an appearance. His temperament was not suited to tournament pool. I emboldened Rempe because my opinion is he belongs in the top group of 14.1 players of his era. I rate him right behind Mizerak and Sigel, equal to Hopkins.

Nice post, Jay.

Jimmy Marino's top game was 9 ball. Remember, he won the 1971 Johnson City 9 Ball division. His HR in 14.1 is 267. He owns a pool room in Bridgeville, Pa, about 15 miles south of Pittsburgh.

I think Lisciotti's 14.1 game was better than Marino's.

 

[ibuycues]

I remember Jimmy Marino and Emil Glocar matching up with some regularity in Pittsburgh and in Akron at Starchers. Great games. Emil got weight, the 8 if I remember correctly.

Will

 

[tigerseye]

Seems that these were very professionally done. I mean they had thier own stamp of approval and authorized signature on one advertisement...
Were there more public support back then??

 

[jay helfert]

I remember Jimmy Marino and Emil Glocar matching up with some regularity in Pittsburgh and in Akron at Starchers. Great games. Emil got weight, the 8 if I remember correctly.

Will

Jimmy played high speed 9-Ball. He couldn't get weight from anyone. He was in that elite category who had to play even with the best players in the world. Because he was one of them. :wink:

Jimmy came to California in the late 60's and laid on the beach, smoked dope and played with the girls. When he got short on dough, he would hit the nearest poolroom and rob the best player in the joint. Only a few people knew who he was. One day I got a call that a long haired hippy was at Ye Billiard Den, and he was going to play the Beatle some $20 9-Ball. The Beatle (Dale Armstrong from Baltimore) had just beat someone for $400 a couple of days earlier. I got down there just in time to see Jimmy get the last of Dale's cash. He never said boo to me, just walked out the door with a smile on his face. I think he gave me a wink on the way out.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

This is a great, great thread.

Jay, as I remember, there were actually two "Ye Billiard Dens", one in West Hollywood (on S. Monica near Crescent Heights) and I'm having a brain fart on the location of the other one. Do you recall or was there only the one?