$200 for a billiard university diploma!!
- Thread starter His Boy Elroy
- Start date
If someone submits a video to billiard university and the submitter is deemed worthy of a degree, for $150 dollars the degree accomplishment is listed on the billiard university website. No diploma, either in PDF form or in paper is awarded.
If some posters need this recognition I have an idea how you can find it and save yourselves $150. Right below my name, "His Boy Elroy", it says "az silver member." Some posters have replaced that with little messages or slogans
My suggestion is to take this test for free, figure out for yourself what degree your score merits (it's not difficult) and underneath your name simply list what degree you possess; be it a bachelors degree, a masters, a masters with honors, or a doctorate.
You don't have to send a video to anyone for verification. We'll do it by the honor system. We're a trusting bunch over her at az billiards.
Besides; right now there are 683 folks reading the forums at az billiards. I doubt if there are 4 over at billiards university. If recognition is what you need, you'll find more of it over here than you will there!
If some posters need this recognition I have an idea how you can find it and save yourselves $150. Right below my name, "His Boy Elroy", it says "az silver member." Some posters have replaced that with little messages or slogans
My suggestion is to take this test for free, figure out for yourself what degree your score merits (it's not difficult) and underneath your name simply list what degree you possess; be it a bachelors degree, a masters, a masters with honors, or a doctorate.
You don't have to send a video to anyone for verification. We'll do it by the honor system. We're a trusting bunch over her at az billiards.
Besides; right now there are 683 folks reading the forums at az billiards. I doubt if there are 4 over at billiards university. If recognition is what you need, you'll find more of it over here than you will there!
What particular agenda do you really have?
This whole thing seems truly peculiar. Dr.Dave and his colleagues have created what many feel is a great program. If you don't feel that way, that is fine. But why do you feel the need to go on this crusade, trying to disparage their work?
I wonder about people. I certainly wonder about you, and how you get your jollies on this forum.
Carry on, Dr. Dave. Stop replying to this guy.
That's correct, Rick, I am trolling you.
When you're able to add something meaningful to a thread, maybe I'll stop.
Here's what is about to happen;
If you don't have something constructive to add to the thread...I might send you home.
I'm addressing all parties.
If you don't have something constructive to add to the thread...I might send you home.
I'm addressing all parties.
I would like to thank Dr. Dave, Bob Jewett, and all the instructors for offering such great instructional material for FREE to the billiards community. I have enjoyed practicing the drills from the BU.
If someone wants the diploma, then go for it. If you don't want it for whatever reason then don't buy it.
Some people keep posting negative comments because others keep responding to them.
If someone wants the diploma, then go for it. If you don't want it for whatever reason then don't buy it.
Some people keep posting negative comments because others keep responding to them.
You don't have to send me home Mr. Wilson. I'll make this my last post in this thread and find my own way home.
I have nothing against pool instructors. I'm self taught. I'm a bit eccentric in my approach to learning pool, I've never taken a lesson, and pool instruction books don't do much for me. I've stated that in a few previous posts. I've also stated my awareness that traditional pool instruction is of enormous benefit to some, and I'm no better than they are.
I believe I also conceded in one post that my game would have been better off if I had taken some traditional instruction a long time ago. These days I'm an advocate of T.O.I. My criticism of Billiard university has nothing to do with the fact that some of the instructors might be center ball advocates. I don't even know who most of them are. For all I know, there are some T.O.I teachers there. Also, I don't know how many times I've stated in posts the importance of knowing how to hit center ball...So I hope that's clear.
Also, I don't know how many times I've stated in this post that I have nothing against the test in terms of a measure of one's pool ability. I'm not qualified to be a judge of such things, but it could very well be the greatest pool skills test ever devised. It has obviously enriched many poster's pool lives. So I have nothing against the test...I hope that's clear.
Here's what I have a problem with: I have a problem with the implication that this test was devised at a pool university by pool professors. I have a problem with the awarding of so- called diplomas costing from $150 to $200 from a pool university that simply doesn't exist in any way, shape, or form. Anyone can see for themselves.
www.billiarduniversity.org.
What services are rendered for $200. The test taker posts a video somewhere that is viewable by a representative of the so-called "billiard university." the representative then confirms that the test taker did in fact make the score he or she claims. The test taker is then mailed a so-called diploma that corresponds with their score. The diplomas are either bachelors, masters, masters with honors, or doctorates.
So what justification is there for charging $200? The devisors of the test are justified in believing they should be paid for their skill and hard work. That's reasonable. The representative of so called "billiard university is justified in believing that he or she should be paid for viewing the video and confirming the score. But any pool player could do that task. He or she doesn't even have to be a good player. Nevertheless, payment should be given. Finally, a so-called diploma made out of parchment paper is mailed out. That costs something. But $200
For $175 the diploma is mailed out in a PDF file that can be copied.
Things get real interesting at $150. For this amount the test taker receives no diploma. The video is evaluated and the test taker's degree status is merely listed on the so-called billiard university web site.
So let's concentrate on the $150 option. Let's be generous and pay the test devisors $30. Let's be even more generous and give the person who confirms the score $20. Why should the test taker pay another $100. Obviously for the prestige of having their honor listed at so-called "billiard university."
What is so-called "billiard university." It's the web site where one can learn about the test and take it. There's very little more. There's a store that sells 13 different videos, there's some information about a teaching clinic that will be held by 3 instructors in Colorado next July. It's 17 hours of instruction over a 3 day weekend for $850. There's also a large amount of Dr. Dave's previously released writings on pool.
That's it. There is no more substance to so-called "billiard university" than that which is stated in the previous paragraph. They expect that test takers will pay $100 for the prestige of having their so- called degree listed on this site.
So what's going on here? They are either consciously or unconsciously taking advantage of people without critical thinking skills and trying to take their money. They devised a fine test. They are presenting the " billiard university" aspect of it as tongue in cheek to intelligent people but either consciously or subconsciously they are targeting those without critical thinking skills.
They either consciously or unconsciously know these people will not perceive the tongue in cheek aspect and that these people will some how believe that a real billiard university exists where great reservoirs of pool knowledge exists and great pool minds contribute knowledge. They either consciously or unconsciously know that they can convince these people that they are receiving a legitimate degree from a real billiard university.
Finally, they give out the test for free. They either consciously or unconsciously know that if they give out the test for free and people's pool lives benefit from it they will be far less likely to be critical of the operation and see what they're really trying to do. If anyone wants evidence of all that I've said, all you have to do is read the posts in this thread.
Think about it. Do you think they'd ever call the test "The pocket billiards assessment test, give out ratings of A, AA, AAA, and AAAA, and try to get people to pay them $150 to have their A status listed at their "pocket billiards assessment web site."
I'm not casting aspersions on all these folks. Well; I did last night to one of them. I held out an olive branch to him and he hit me over the head with it! As I'm sure was noticed, many times I referred to their motivations as conscious or unconscious. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and think it was unconscious. Maybe they're fine folks and were just not thinking or ill informed or not really focused when they entered into this operation....Let's hope so!
I have nothing against pool instructors. I'm self taught. I'm a bit eccentric in my approach to learning pool, I've never taken a lesson, and pool instruction books don't do much for me. I've stated that in a few previous posts. I've also stated my awareness that traditional pool instruction is of enormous benefit to some, and I'm no better than they are.
I believe I also conceded in one post that my game would have been better off if I had taken some traditional instruction a long time ago. These days I'm an advocate of T.O.I. My criticism of Billiard university has nothing to do with the fact that some of the instructors might be center ball advocates. I don't even know who most of them are. For all I know, there are some T.O.I teachers there. Also, I don't know how many times I've stated in posts the importance of knowing how to hit center ball...So I hope that's clear.
Also, I don't know how many times I've stated in this post that I have nothing against the test in terms of a measure of one's pool ability. I'm not qualified to be a judge of such things, but it could very well be the greatest pool skills test ever devised. It has obviously enriched many poster's pool lives. So I have nothing against the test...I hope that's clear.
Here's what I have a problem with: I have a problem with the implication that this test was devised at a pool university by pool professors. I have a problem with the awarding of so- called diplomas costing from $150 to $200 from a pool university that simply doesn't exist in any way, shape, or form. Anyone can see for themselves.
www.billiarduniversity.org.
What services are rendered for $200. The test taker posts a video somewhere that is viewable by a representative of the so-called "billiard university." the representative then confirms that the test taker did in fact make the score he or she claims. The test taker is then mailed a so-called diploma that corresponds with their score. The diplomas are either bachelors, masters, masters with honors, or doctorates.
So what justification is there for charging $200? The devisors of the test are justified in believing they should be paid for their skill and hard work. That's reasonable. The representative of so called "billiard university is justified in believing that he or she should be paid for viewing the video and confirming the score. But any pool player could do that task. He or she doesn't even have to be a good player. Nevertheless, payment should be given. Finally, a so-called diploma made out of parchment paper is mailed out. That costs something. But $200
For $175 the diploma is mailed out in a PDF file that can be copied.
Things get real interesting at $150. For this amount the test taker receives no diploma. The video is evaluated and the test taker's degree status is merely listed on the so-called billiard university web site.
So let's concentrate on the $150 option. Let's be generous and pay the test devisors $30. Let's be even more generous and give the person who confirms the score $20. Why should the test taker pay another $100. Obviously for the prestige of having their honor listed at so-called "billiard university."
What is so-called "billiard university." It's the web site where one can learn about the test and take it. There's very little more. There's a store that sells 13 different videos, there's some information about a teaching clinic that will be held by 3 instructors in Colorado next July. It's 17 hours of instruction over a 3 day weekend for $850. There's also a large amount of Dr. Dave's previously released writings on pool.
That's it. There is no more substance to so-called "billiard university" than that which is stated in the previous paragraph. They expect that test takers will pay $100 for the prestige of having their so- called degree listed on this site.
So what's going on here? They are either consciously or unconsciously taking advantage of people without critical thinking skills and trying to take their money. They devised a fine test. They are presenting the " billiard university" aspect of it as tongue in cheek to intelligent people but either consciously or subconsciously they are targeting those without critical thinking skills.
They either consciously or unconsciously know these people will not perceive the tongue in cheek aspect and that these people will some how believe that a real billiard university exists where great reservoirs of pool knowledge exists and great pool minds contribute knowledge. They either consciously or unconsciously know that they can convince these people that they are receiving a legitimate degree from a real billiard university.
Finally, they give out the test for free. They either consciously or unconsciously know that if they give out the test for free and people's pool lives benefit from it they will be far less likely to be critical of the operation and see what they're really trying to do. If anyone wants evidence of all that I've said, all you have to do is read the posts in this thread.
Think about it. Do you think they'd ever call the test "The pocket billiards assessment test, give out ratings of A, AA, AAA, and AAAA, and try to get people to pay them $150 to have their A status listed at their "pocket billiards assessment web site."
I'm not casting aspersions on all these folks. Well; I did last night to one of them. I held out an olive branch to him and he hit me over the head with it! As I'm sure was noticed, many times I referred to their motivations as conscious or unconscious. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and think it was unconscious. Maybe they're fine folks and were just not thinking or ill informed or not really focused when they entered into this operation....Let's hope so!
Last edited:
More posters going FULL BLOWN RETARD
Get a life. These people aren't trying to protect consumers they are just bashing
That's what gets them off
GREAT WORK DR DAVE
Keep up the good work
Get a life. These people aren't trying to protect consumers they are just bashing
That's what gets them off
GREAT WORK DR DAVE
Keep up the good work
I'm not even going to quote your drival...you're a facist. It's free enterprise...nobody has to buy anything. If they want to participate they can...if not, no big deal. It doesn't matter if dr. dave charges $5 or $500...it's whatever the market will bear. Who are you to suggest what the learning opportunity (that's what taking the test is about) is worth to the student requesting it? There has been a lot research that went into the preparation of Billiard University, and that by itself has value, let alone the value of taking the test, whether for personal satisfaction or performance scoring. Just because you don't like it doesn't give you the right to trash the reputation of a long time poster who has contributed a lot to the game, and to the pool-playing public at large. That may be your last post, but it's still filled with the same hate. Time to grow up.
Scott Lee
http://poolknoweldge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknoweldge.com
Poor Dave. First he's a resource librarian, then a plagiarist, and now he's a shyster too! Some have gone as far as to question his skill set.
After years of reading tons of Daves material(mostly for free) and posts about him, I have to feel that some people are just jealous of his success.
I tip my hat to you Dave, and I hope your hard work pays off in every way.
After years of reading tons of Daves material(mostly for free) and posts about him, I have to feel that some people are just jealous of his success.
I tip my hat to you Dave, and I hope your hard work pays off in every way.
The actual "value" of the "diploma" may be zero, but the value of the information learned getting it may be untold. I've bought books and was happy to find one or two shots or "gems" of information in them.
If it make anyone feel better look at the diploma fee as as a reasonable contribution to Dr. Dave and associates for the information and just enjoy hanging the diploma on your room wall.
J
If it make anyone feel better look at the diploma fee as as a reasonable contribution to Dr. Dave and associates for the information and just enjoy hanging the diploma on your room wall.
J
Have you apologized to Dave in public for your personal attack which you made in a public forum?
I don't know who you held the olive branch to nor do I know what you said but if is anything like your ramblings in this thread maybe that explains why it didn't work.
All I know is you got off easy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
I don't know who you held the olive branch to nor do I know what you said but if is anything like your ramblings in this thread maybe that explains why it didn't work.
All I know is you got off easy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
Last edited:
Jimmyg,
I pretty much agree. There isnt much organization in pool that does anything visibly constructive for the sport and yes its 200 but if its 200 that creates a body of people who are beginning to learn the skills that it takes in order to learn to teach someone then to me its worth it. Now Im sure that the skill sets while important may not equal experience on the table but that is another matter altogether but the skills attained make it easier for a player to learn what do in many given instances when its time to execute and that is undeniable.
Just like aiming. There is a lot more to the game than just aiming but its hard to do well when you have difficulty aiming shots and its nearly impossible to learn to apply spin when your base aiming is something you question.
Last edited:
DR D has about a million dollars worth of content on his site to help anyone with their game including and especially those taking the test. Should he get some kind of return to help with the expense?
NO NO NO!! Of course not!
Odds are real good the OP drinks tap water and never wants to pay time at the pool room either.
NO NO NO!! Of course not!
Odds are real good the OP drinks tap water and never wants to pay time at the pool room either.
Good post, Bruce. And I 100% agree. While I may've had some problems with how Dr. Dave was attributing the information he pulls from other sources (e.g. AZB) and repackages for use on his website, that was indeed in the past since he fixed that issue. Dr. Dave is perhaps the best librarian of pool-related information; he's the Charles Ursitti of the physics / skills aspect of pool knowledge. There's a price for the effort of gathering, sorting, and republishing that knowledge, but Dr. Dave makes most of it FREE on his website.
Concerning the packaging of any product, the price is commensurate with what the market will bear for that product. That's the very nature of capitalism.
Analogies to repairs made to a Mercedes (i.e. savings by purchasing the part yourself and installing it) have nothing to do with the price of imparting knowledge or bestowing a certification. That kind of analogy is a big FAIL.
And if you look at the main antagonists in this thread -- HisBoyElroy and English -- you'll understand why: 1.) it involves "instructors" or knowledge-transfer authorities "other than" their personal favorites of e.g. CJ; 2.) it involves "certifications" (i.e. diplomas); 3.) it involves the price of a product that breeches the $40 barrier. To them, it appears, any product (pool or otherwise) that is dispensed from a website in an electronic form should cost no more than one or two $20 bills.
And, may I boldly add, it also involves barbox league players who are self-taught, have never had any kind of instruction from an instructor with a formal certification, and have no clue of the value of instruction that was distilled and hand-assembled from decades of information collection, experience, and exposure to many, many different people and disciplines. They seem to think that because they (the two antagonists) have some thinking ability, that they have all the knowledge and skillsets they need. They like to accuse others of having a closed mind or worse, accusing them of "trolling" when their viewpoints are pointedly challenged by known facts, and not merely "hypothesis because I can think about things and formulate my own opinions."
Summary: look at the source of the antagonism. It is, in essence, "keeping an eye on the world from a room with no windows."
-Sean
Last edited:
Thank you for the kind remarks. I'm glad you are putting the BU resources to good use.
Please post your exam scores (and videos if available) on the AZB BU thread after you finish Exam II. And also consider posting scores again in the future so we can see how much you can improve over time.
Thanks again,
Dave
I know. I just thought the clearly-outlined justification of the price would help the cynics better understand. Apparently not. Maybe I'll try one more time. Here it is again:
The price for a diploma is $200 because:
- It took lots of time, effort, initiative, creativity, and expense to create the BU and the asociated exam materials, website, organization of people, and professionally-designed diplomas.
- It takes time and expense to print the diplomas on a high-quality printer with high-quality paper.
- It takes time and expense to package and ship the diplomas in a protective way.
- It takes time to review the submitted online videos to make sure the results are valid.
- It takes time to process the submittal form that is required with a diploma application.
- It takes time to do the accounting and record-keeping required to process a diploma.
- It takes time and expense to maintain the BU website and the BilliardUniversity.org domain.
- It takes time to post official diploma results on the BU website.
- With a diploma, one receives official recognition of their level of ability on the BU website (with permission). This is of value to some people.
- A diploma can be framed and displayed with pride (e.g., in an office or game room) to show off one's enthusiasm and excellence for this great sport. This is of value to some people.
- A diploma is a credential one can use as the first step to becoming a BU instructor. This is of value to some people. It can also lead to additional income.
- Finally, the BU owners should be rewarded for what they have created for the pool community.
Maybe I'll keep re-posting this every time one of the cynics repeats their unchanging tirades. Maybe they will understand after a while. (I know ... I dreaming.)
Regards,
Dave
Sour Grapes pretty much explains it.
1. Sour Grapes
Completed the second exam last night. Posted to the original thread. Will be working on my weaknesses now. Great tool for assessing my game.:thumbup:
I will be working on improving my scores and posting the results. Will have to start recording the efforts.
Thanks again for your help.
1. Sour Grapes
DrDave said:
Completed the second exam last night. Posted to the original thread. Will be working on my weaknesses now. Great tool for assessing my game.:thumbup:
I will be working on improving my scores and posting the results. Will have to start recording the efforts.
Thanks again for your help.
I want to thank Scott and the many other users who have posted supportive and encouraging comments and PMs. I appreciate it. It more than offsets all of the negative energy and criticism from a select few.
Thanks again, and best regards,
Dave
I am certainly proud of the BU diploma hanging on my pool-room wall at home. It reminds me of how hard I have worked on the exams and makes me feel proud of my accomplishment. I don't think I would have put in a fraction on the practice time I have over the last few months if I didn't have the BU exams as a goal-setting motivator. It has also been very fun and challenging for me to improve my score the amount I have recently. I'll be posting another Exam II video later today. That's what I was doing yesterday while this thread was continuing. I'm glad I spent the time practicing instead of writing AZB posts, especially in response to people who probably didn't deserve any response.
Good luck on the exams, and be sure to post results on the AZB BU thread ... it doesn't cost a cent.
Regards,
Dave