That's close to actual size
That's about 1/2 the size..you must of thought he ordered a 29" cue:grin:
2013 Joss "Handmade" Cue - Not Exactly What They "Used To Make"
- Thread starter JoshStodola
- Start date
That's close to actual size
That's about 1/2 the size..you must of thought he ordered a 29" cue:grin:
Dan Janes has been a stalwart in the cue-making business.The quality of your cue based upon what you paid "Sucks".
It may play great but you didn't order a $250 player vs $2k custom cue. If Dan only makes a few cues like this per year, these
cues should be perfect and yours is far from that. It looks like a cheap knockoff from China with its poor workmanship. This cue
is not representative of Dan's cue-making skills and is woefully unacceptable for what you paid to get it.
I'd definitely speak with Dan again and show him the crappy cue-making by handing him the cue personally. Unless for you
money doesn't matter and you don't mind people abusing and taking advantage of you, just keep playing with the cue.
But most persons feel that they should get what they pay for and obviously Dan failed to do that or even come close.
I have a custom being built right now for a little more than what you paid. If my cue were to turn out like yours, I'd return
the cue and absolutely get my money back regardless even if it turned into a catastrophic financial phyrric victory. But
what you do is your own business and if you don't mind getting screwed out of your money, that's entirely your call.
Having said that, it seems like you're really unhappy and this might just be the tip of the iceberg on this subject. You did
the right thing by approaching Dan and based upon what you wrote,he slapped you in the face and bent you over.I don't
know this to be true but there's no reason for you to post a false accusation.You spent a lot of money for this cue, you
presented exactly what you wanted to Dan, he failed miserably to produce a quality cue which you had every right to expect
he'd manufacture and then when you point out the flaws, he says I make the cue the way I want.......DUH? He decides how
the inlays should look even after you went over the design and he agreed to make it....DUH? And that black veneer looks
like a wide felt marker compared to the other veneers and the inlay flaws are so conspicuous......it looks like a $125.00 cue.
Personally, I believe that Dan is a cue-maker of integrity and great talent. However, if your story is true, then his reputation
deserves to be badly tarnished and Janes should be scorned and ridiculed about his abhorrent behavior.....and I'd also sue him
in small claims court for recovery of my money.....just my 2 cents on this matter but you should never allow anyone to
mistreat you and steal your money which it sounds like has happened to you. So maybe Mr. Janes was having a very bad
day when you spoke with him..........everyone is entitled to that from time to time.........Approach him again and present your
case......then come back and report to the Forum what happened.
Otherwise, I think you're better off just letting this thread die, keep your trap shut and just enjoy playing with a cue that feels
great in your hands.....and looks like shit to your eyes........And Never Tell Anyone How Much You Paid For This Cue....unless
you don't mind portraying yourself as a fool hardy, easy pushover.......just tell everyone you got the cue at a garage sale for
$100 and maybe people will then think it was a great deal but never tell them you paid $1800 or people will think you are just
the world's biggest schmuck......and not surprisingly, they'd have it right too.
,
p.s. And most people do not typically sell a desirable, collectible cue for 50% of the original selling price unless the cue is just crap.
You don't see any Szamboti, Scruggs, Mottey, Richard Black, Hercek, Searing, Prewitt, Mobley, Ginacue pool cues...etc. selling for 50%
of the original price, not unless the cue is damaged, Remember that people who buy expensive cues tend to take very good care of them.
These cues command top dollar prices and fetch more than what these cues originally cost with most sales....and often a lot more too.
It may play great but you didn't order a $250 player vs $2k custom cue. If Dan only makes a few cues like this per year, these
cues should be perfect and yours is far from that. It looks like a cheap knockoff from China with its poor workmanship. This cue
is not representative of Dan's cue-making skills and is woefully unacceptable for what you paid to get it.
I'd definitely speak with Dan again and show him the crappy cue-making by handing him the cue personally. Unless for you
money doesn't matter and you don't mind people abusing and taking advantage of you, just keep playing with the cue.
But most persons feel that they should get what they pay for and obviously Dan failed to do that or even come close.
I have a custom being built right now for a little more than what you paid. If my cue were to turn out like yours, I'd return
the cue and absolutely get my money back regardless even if it turned into a catastrophic financial phyrric victory. But
what you do is your own business and if you don't mind getting screwed out of your money, that's entirely your call.
Having said that, it seems like you're really unhappy and this might just be the tip of the iceberg on this subject. You did
the right thing by approaching Dan and based upon what you wrote,he slapped you in the face and bent you over.I don't
know this to be true but there's no reason for you to post a false accusation.You spent a lot of money for this cue, you
presented exactly what you wanted to Dan, he failed miserably to produce a quality cue which you had every right to expect
he'd manufacture and then when you point out the flaws, he says I make the cue the way I want.......DUH? He decides how
the inlays should look even after you went over the design and he agreed to make it....DUH? And that black veneer looks
like a wide felt marker compared to the other veneers and the inlay flaws are so conspicuous......it looks like a $125.00 cue.
Personally, I believe that Dan is a cue-maker of integrity and great talent. However, if your story is true, then his reputation
deserves to be badly tarnished and Janes should be scorned and ridiculed about his abhorrent behavior.....and I'd also sue him
in small claims court for recovery of my money.....just my 2 cents on this matter but you should never allow anyone to
mistreat you and steal your money which it sounds like has happened to you. So maybe Mr. Janes was having a very bad
day when you spoke with him..........everyone is entitled to that from time to time.........Approach him again and present your
case......then come back and report to the Forum what happened.
Otherwise, I think you're better off just letting this thread die, keep your trap shut and just enjoy playing with a cue that feels
great in your hands.....and looks like shit to your eyes........And Never Tell Anyone How Much You Paid For This Cue....unless
you don't mind portraying yourself as a fool hardy, easy pushover.......just tell everyone you got the cue at a garage sale for
$100 and maybe people will then think it was a great deal but never tell them you paid $1800 or people will think you are just
the world's biggest schmuck......and not surprisingly, they'd have it right too.
,
p.s. And most people do not typically sell a desirable, collectible cue for 50% of the original selling price unless the cue is just crap.
You don't see any Szamboti, Scruggs, Mottey, Richard Black, Hercek, Searing, Prewitt, Mobley, Ginacue pool cues...etc. selling for 50%
of the original price, not unless the cue is damaged, Remember that people who buy expensive cues tend to take very good care of them.
These cues command top dollar prices and fetch more than what these cues originally cost with most sales....and often a lot more too.
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Josh,
It's obvious to most the build quality is terrible...
I've also learned that Chris Hightower has different view on what's
acceptable when it comes to execution in a new cue build..
I will definitely avoid any of his cues in the future..
That's close to actual size
That's about 1/2 the size..you must of thought he ordered a 29" cue:grin:
On my screen that picture is over 1 inch wide and the cue is about one inch wide in that spot.
I am only addressing the glue lines and they cannot be seen in an actual size photo. I heard nothing but praise for the other cue mentioned in this thread that has similar glue lines under magnification also. I think there is a double standard on what is acceptable among the mob on here. And if you are part of that mob please do avoid my cues in the future.
Chris,
I'm not part of any mob..
I'm a big boy, make my own decisions,
and am not easily persuaded..
I laugh at the fact that you see nothing wrong with this cue..
I laugh at the fact you attempted to benefit from this situation..
I laugh at the fact your posting 1"x1" picture justifies??????????????????
The bottom line is Josh paid 1800.00 for this cue, and he got F()@&eI)
Now that's funny.
Let me first say, I clearly understand every concern you have with your cue. And your rightful dissatisfaction on several issues. I clearly understand and agree.
Having said that, I have to immediately follow up with a couple of VERY quick points.
I was not on your call with Dan Janes.
I have known Danny Janes for many, many years and have, without fail, found him to be a Perfect Gentleman.
At all times, again without fail.
If something went awry on your call, I have difficulty seeing Dan just blowing you off, and hanging up on you. It just does not fit the mold of every interaction I have ever had (or have personally seen Dan have with anyone else).
I thoroughly suspect you must have teed up your issues in such a way that anyone would likely have hung up, if that is what happened.
Again, I was not on your call but felt obligated to insert my thoughts after thinking about your comments.
Dan Janes is a wonderful contributor and customer focused person, has been for decades. If you called him again and stated your case, you owe that much to both him and yourself.
Again, something went awry that does not make logical sense. With both the cue construction AND the communication on the call after receipt. And my logic is staying ahead of my emotion on this.
Will Prout
Having said that, I have to immediately follow up with a couple of VERY quick points.
I was not on your call with Dan Janes.
I have known Danny Janes for many, many years and have, without fail, found him to be a Perfect Gentleman.
At all times, again without fail.
If something went awry on your call, I have difficulty seeing Dan just blowing you off, and hanging up on you. It just does not fit the mold of every interaction I have ever had (or have personally seen Dan have with anyone else).
I thoroughly suspect you must have teed up your issues in such a way that anyone would likely have hung up, if that is what happened.
Again, I was not on your call but felt obligated to insert my thoughts after thinking about your comments.
Dan Janes is a wonderful contributor and customer focused person, has been for decades. If you called him again and stated your case, you owe that much to both him and yourself.
Again, something went awry that does not make logical sense. With both the cue construction AND the communication on the call after receipt. And my logic is staying ahead of my emotion on this.
Will Prout
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First, I agree with everything you've said about Dan Janes' character and being an upstanding person. That being said, what really doesnt make sense is how a HOF cuemaker like Dan let a cue like that leave his shop, and it especially doesn't make sense since it was a custom order he would work on personally. For a cuemaker of Dan Janes' caliber and skill, it should never have to come to a phone call about shoddy misaligned inlays and bad glue lines, etc.
I live near Baltimore and I have had multiple dealings with Joss over the years, going back as far as 1978 and as recent as a month ago, I also have friends that have dealt with Joss since their beginning. That said, here's my two cents, when Bill and Dan were together they made some of the best cues I've had the pleasure to play with, however after their split the the focus at Joss changed. Bill, aka Joss West, went on to make one of a kind works of art, whereas Dan, aka Joss (east), focused on high volume production. Joss Cues today make a fair playing production cue similar to Pechauer, Meucci or Viking, however, If you ask for a handmade custom cue your likely to be disappointed. The first thing you must realize is that Dan himself will probably not work on the cue at all, his son or one of the employees will do all the work. And unlike the early days of handmade craftsmanship most of these guys have spent their time working with, and relying on, CNC machines and computers, not their hands to do the work. Which is why the early handcrafted Joss cues are highly valued, and the modern cues are not. In summary, if you want the name Joss at the bottom of your cue seek one produced in the 70's, if you want a modern custom handcrafted cue made to your personal specifications choose someone else to build it. But whom ever you choose hold them accountable for your satisfaction, a reputable cue maker will want you to be satisfied.
Good post and it sums up how this could happen, but these is still no solution.
In my post I joked about "kids" in the shop building cues.
When I said kids I didn't mean little kids, the point being that Dan Janes did not work on this cue.
Dan may of inspected the cue and shipped it under some type of duress, but a company like Joss should of just offered a refund and chopped the cue into pieces.
I thought Joss was building custom cues, but like Clint Eastwood said in Magnum Force..."A man's got to know his limitations."
I don't blame Dan Janes for not working on cues himself, but he's going to have to step up when these things happen in the shop.
Still no reply? I was really wanting a Joss to restart my pool oddessy. NOT anymore. Thanks to the OP for the heads up.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Business 101
1) Unless the buyer was a complete moron on the phone he should not make any calls to Dan.
2) If the buyer was a gentleman on the phone he should not make any calls to Dan.
3) In business, you dictate the outcome not the customer.
4) If the buyer was an idiot or gentlemen, you listen to his complaints and very simply say... I am sorry you are disappointed, let me rectify your concerns and get you the cue back (or a new cue). If the buyer is not happy with that then offer back his money. (Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you) It doesn't matter if Dan built the cue or not, his name is on it.
As of now you have a respected man and cue maker getting a bad rap that will only hurt business..
This should have all been avoided. The world can read how unhappy the buyer is, they should be reading how overwhelmed he is with the beauty, playability and great dealings with a great company. I am sure, most of the people who have read this will not be ordering a cue from Dan all too soon.
Pool is a small community, word travels fast.
Dan should be the one making the phone call
1) Unless the buyer was a complete moron on the phone he should not make any calls to Dan.
2) If the buyer was a gentleman on the phone he should not make any calls to Dan.
3) In business, you dictate the outcome not the customer.
4) If the buyer was an idiot or gentlemen, you listen to his complaints and very simply say... I am sorry you are disappointed, let me rectify your concerns and get you the cue back (or a new cue). If the buyer is not happy with that then offer back his money. (Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you) It doesn't matter if Dan built the cue or not, his name is on it.
As of now you have a respected man and cue maker getting a bad rap that will only hurt business..
This should have all been avoided. The world can read how unhappy the buyer is, they should be reading how overwhelmed he is with the beauty, playability and great dealings with a great company. I am sure, most of the people who have read this will not be ordering a cue from Dan all too soon.
Pool is a small community, word travels fast.
Dan should be the one making the phone call
Thanks for commenting Will. I understand what you mean and this is part of why I did not want to post this in the first place. Up until I expressed dissatisfaction, my talks with Dan during construction of the cue were wonderful. We didn't just talk about my cue, we talked about all sorts of things. He's a great guy and I think he's really smart. He was a perfect gentleman as you have alluded. That's why I was so shocked when he carelessly threw my concerns out the window.
I have to defend myself when you say that I "teed up" on him. That is not true at all. I was extremely soft-spoken, I didn't ask for anything, I did not raise my voice, all I said was the inlays do not look anything like the picture I sent, and that there is lots of apparent glue lines in the veneers. No attitude, no pretense, in fact I was probably being a pussy about it if anything. I did nothing to deserve the treatment I received. If I was genuinely pissed off about the cue, I would have called him immediately when I received it and said some things deserving of a hangup. But no, I played with it for three hours that night, wrote an email the following morning (which also was not insulting in any way), and after three days of no reply, I gave him a phone call.
I respect the fact that you've known him for so long but I am guessing you've never called him up and told him you were dissatisfied with one of his handmade cues.
Will -
That's the point.
Everybody is your friend when all is well. A real test of both friendship and business is how someone treats someone when there is a problem.
I suspect you have rose colored glasses on, as most cuemakers kiss your a$$, as you are a big cue buyer and dont want to make an enemy of the hand that feeds them.
If you are so sure of Dan's golden customer service give him a call for this OP. IF he is really what you say he is, I am sure he would make this right.
If you havent read Sam Walton biography and how he treated customers, even the little ones, it makes for an interesting read.
If you dont make that call, then that really shows that you either really arent that great a friend to Dan, or Dan Janes isnt "a wonderful contributor and customer focused person, has been for decades.", as you suggest.
Best of rolls for all,
Ken
I have to ask ........it seems to be a common characteristic with many cue-makers, or at least that's what gets written about them.
Are these persons so gifted in cue-making ability that they can afford to be arrogant? In my opinion, I really do not think so.
Since I haven't any personal dealings with these cue-makers, I go by what I read like most AZers but also with a grain of salt.
Nonetheless, it's been suggested that one needs to pay close attention to their demeanor when approaching their cue-maker,
especially with a complaint. Now it should go without saying that if you behave like an asshole with your cue-maker, don't expect
great customer service. And only Josh and whom he spoke with (Dan?) really know how each behaved.
In the final analysis, there was a contract created when the order was accepted by Joss Cues. Dan Janes, or his minions, did not
fulfill the contract other than by way of producing a pool cue. The quality was just not there and for the price paid for the cue, it should
have been. So I really don't think Josh came into 2nd base spikes up aimed at Dan when he called him to express dissatisfaction
about the cue. What happened on the call none of us really know. But even if Josh was a jerk-off, Dan should have asked to see the
cue again and offered a refund or say he'd make the cue over but never.....NEVER......dismiss shoddy craftsmanship and then adopt
a "better than thou" attitude towards the complaining customer........"if" it happened that way, it's pure unadulterated BULLSHIT.
So are cue-makers becoming so impressed with their workmanship that they think they can get away with rudeness, arrogance or disdain
towards the public or a complaining customer? Are their cues in such great demand they can get away with anything? Some of you may
have read one of my posts about having a custom made right now. Well, even if my cue-maker was Joel Hercek, he had better always
above board in any dealings and remember I'm the one footing the bill, not the cue-maker who works for me. Indeed, the cue-maker could
be the most talented craftsman of pool cues that ever lived and long waiting periods for new cue orders testifies to a cue-maker's skills and
popularity. But that doesn't empower him to behave like a asshole like what Josh has described. Screw the cue-maker when they reach
the stage where they think they're more important than the person footing the bill for the frigging bill for the cue........Yeah, even Hercek or
Szamboti, or Searing, or Prewitt.......all of whom have long waiting periods for new cue orders, even those great names in cue-making are
not entitled to behaving like a dork with a client.......IMO.
Are these persons so gifted in cue-making ability that they can afford to be arrogant? In my opinion, I really do not think so.
Since I haven't any personal dealings with these cue-makers, I go by what I read like most AZers but also with a grain of salt.
Nonetheless, it's been suggested that one needs to pay close attention to their demeanor when approaching their cue-maker,
especially with a complaint. Now it should go without saying that if you behave like an asshole with your cue-maker, don't expect
great customer service. And only Josh and whom he spoke with (Dan?) really know how each behaved.
In the final analysis, there was a contract created when the order was accepted by Joss Cues. Dan Janes, or his minions, did not
fulfill the contract other than by way of producing a pool cue. The quality was just not there and for the price paid for the cue, it should
have been. So I really don't think Josh came into 2nd base spikes up aimed at Dan when he called him to express dissatisfaction
about the cue. What happened on the call none of us really know. But even if Josh was a jerk-off, Dan should have asked to see the
cue again and offered a refund or say he'd make the cue over but never.....NEVER......dismiss shoddy craftsmanship and then adopt
a "better than thou" attitude towards the complaining customer........"if" it happened that way, it's pure unadulterated BULLSHIT.
So are cue-makers becoming so impressed with their workmanship that they think they can get away with rudeness, arrogance or disdain
towards the public or a complaining customer? Are their cues in such great demand they can get away with anything? Some of you may
have read one of my posts about having a custom made right now. Well, even if my cue-maker was Joel Hercek, he had better always
above board in any dealings and remember I'm the one footing the bill, not the cue-maker who works for me. Indeed, the cue-maker could
be the most talented craftsman of pool cues that ever lived and long waiting periods for new cue orders testifies to a cue-maker's skills and
popularity. But that doesn't empower him to behave like a asshole like what Josh has described. Screw the cue-maker when they reach
the stage where they think they're more important than the person footing the bill for the frigging bill for the cue........Yeah, even Hercek or
Szamboti, or Searing, or Prewitt.......all of whom have long waiting periods for new cue orders, even those great names in cue-making are
not entitled to behaving like a dork with a client.......IMO.
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Josh,
I called Dan Janes this morning and spoke with him about your cue and your dissatisfaction. He was very congenial and friendly, and spoke with no ill will toward you.
His number one priority is your satisfaction. I mentioned that you were very pleased with the playability of the cue, but were very dissatisfied with some of the workmanship in the cue.
Dan asked if you would consider sending the cue back to him, along with a detailed listing of your points of dissatisfaction, and he will make you another, brand new cue to address your concerns.
Dan has been making cues for almost fifty years at JOSS Cues, and takes a lot of pride in the body of work he has produced in this period, with a ton of satisfied customers. I know you have liked JOSS cues for a long time, and this is what prompted you to order the cue in the first place.
I hope you will send the cue back to JOSS with a detailed list of your points of concern, allow them to make you another cue......And become a satisfied customer again.
I wish you well.
Will Prout
I called Dan Janes this morning and spoke with him about your cue and your dissatisfaction. He was very congenial and friendly, and spoke with no ill will toward you.
His number one priority is your satisfaction. I mentioned that you were very pleased with the playability of the cue, but were very dissatisfied with some of the workmanship in the cue.
Dan asked if you would consider sending the cue back to him, along with a detailed listing of your points of dissatisfaction, and he will make you another, brand new cue to address your concerns.
Dan has been making cues for almost fifty years at JOSS Cues, and takes a lot of pride in the body of work he has produced in this period, with a ton of satisfied customers. I know you have liked JOSS cues for a long time, and this is what prompted you to order the cue in the first place.
I hope you will send the cue back to JOSS with a detailed list of your points of concern, allow them to make you another cue......And become a satisfied customer again.
I wish you well.
Will Prout