While I want the US Open to succeed I thought Barry's comment about betting 10K with anyone disagreeing that he gets a full field was unprofessional. It just casts a shadow over the entire thing IMO.
Gerry
Gerry
2014 US Open 9-Ball Championship: 128-player field, $1,000 entry fee
- Thread starter JAM
- Start date
There is no real way to measure a players ability to win based on how strong his heart is and determination to win, that is reserved for inside the ring so to speak.
But, everything you listed above skill level wise IS tested in the course of this skill level testing. Shotmaking, CB control, Pattern play, Stroke, Breaking, Jumping if out of line, kicking if out of line, and Banking if out of line.
300 balls must be made, that's 20 full racks @ 15 balls to a rack, with the last 5 balls of each rack having to be made in rotation to get a par/even score card, which means if you never missed a ball....you'd have a score of "0" and the only way you could even get an under par score is by making balls on the breaks, with each ball being worth one extra point. Miss anytime during any rack....and that rack is over. Scratch on the break and that rack is over...score recieved....0 for that rack. Break and DON'T have a shot, take a flyer and don't make a ball....rack over, score 0. You only get 20 breaks, 20 misses...and 300 balls to score a 400, which is par...even. Scratch on the break and you're already at 15+ over par.
There is WAY to many players who don't care about winning in a lot of these events, what they're really playing for...is a chance to play one of the PRO'S that they would NEVER get the chance to play otherwise, which is the MAIN reason that PROFESSIONAL pool does NOT exist today. Earl, Shane, Johnny, Mika...and all the rest of the PRO'S should NOT have to stoop to playing in tournaments that are full of players that CAN'T win, playing much shorter races in order to give the lesser players a chance to beat a PRO, playing "Let's take turns breaking"...so that lesser players have at least ONE chance to play every OTHER game.
All my idea does, is weed out those that CAN play, from all those that CAN'T. NO traveling is needed, no expenses need to be paid out for hotels, air fares or anything else....ALL a player needs to do, is take a little test on a test table, pay the fee to submit the test results, then look on line to see if they made the cut or not, THEN if they DID make the cut, then they could decide if they want to take the NEXT step and play in the PRO'S only tournament....it's really simple. Now, when it comes to playing AGAINST other PRO'S...that's what the viewers are WAITING to see, WANT to see, and CAN'T wait to see.
Yes, it'll draw the line between Semi-Pro, identify what a "Short stop" is, and make everyone in the whole world....realize just exactly where they stand when it comes to being a PRO.
And the NEXT time a player comes on AZ with a new thread asking...."I'm thinking about turning Pro, how good do I have to play to play with the PRO's?"....well then, everyone can tell them to go find a Diamond 5'x10' ProAm, pay your fee to take the "PRO" test....then get back to us to let us know how you did!!!
Catagory's can be made out of the testing scores for example:
Pro male's
Pro female's
Pro's over 55 years old.
Semi-Pro level
Advanced player level
Intermediate level players
Amature players
Juniors 18 @ under....ect. The list goes on and on, one is only limited by ones imagination as to how this kind of testing can help improve this sport overall.
Hell, even at $25 per test per person, including retesting in oder to improve ones standings....would add up into the $1,000's of dollars....all payable to ONE fund, yet the scoreing can be used to determine players ranking to include or exclude players from local tournaments...if room owners all over the country, and world for that matter REQUIRED ALL players to take a $25 skill level test before playing in any LOCAL tournaments.....WOO HOOO....PROFESSIONAL POOL HAS A FOUNDATION TO BUILD ON!!!
Glen
PS. I have a lot more on this, such as where the money is paid to, who it's paid to, and how it's paid out....because everything being done today is wrong and broken by all those that are currently in controll of pool tournaments world wide.
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Why 5 x 10 all of a sudden?
I like the idea, just not on a 5 X 10.
Very few people have a 5 x 10 available to practice on.
They aren't going to be putting them in to pool rooms.
Not only because of the space they take, but the players
don't like to play on them, that's why the few that still existed
a few years back were taken out of the rooms, nobody
played on them.
I don't even like to watch the pros play on them as only a
few out of the field have one near by they can practice on.
Things haven't changed the new 5 x 10 at Sand Castle Billiards
was taken out because nobody wanted to play on the table and they
could put a regular size table in it's place so they could make money
To test on a 5 X 10 and then have players play on a 41/2 x 9
makes no sense at all to me.
Plus if you are hoping to get a lot of players to test you would
want to have the test tables readily available, not something
that is hard to search out and find.
I see no reason the tests wouldn't work just as well on a 41/2 X 9
other than Diamond is trying to push the big 5 x 10 table.
This nonsense about a 41/2 x 9 table being a push over is
just that, nonsense. If they were so easy Accu-stats would have
plenty of matches that have 5 or 6 racks run. The truth is out of the
thousands of matches they have there just aren't that many with
5 or 6 packs, that's the bottom line.
I don't even buy the tournament match DVD's of 5 x 10 matches,
and I have hundreds of match DVD's I've purchased.
.
I like the idea, just not on a 5 X 10.
Very few people have a 5 x 10 available to practice on.
They aren't going to be putting them in to pool rooms.
Not only because of the space they take, but the players
don't like to play on them, that's why the few that still existed
a few years back were taken out of the rooms, nobody
played on them.
I don't even like to watch the pros play on them as only a
few out of the field have one near by they can practice on.
Things haven't changed the new 5 x 10 at Sand Castle Billiards
was taken out because nobody wanted to play on the table and they
could put a regular size table in it's place so they could make money
To test on a 5 X 10 and then have players play on a 41/2 x 9
makes no sense at all to me.
Plus if you are hoping to get a lot of players to test you would
want to have the test tables readily available, not something
that is hard to search out and find.
I see no reason the tests wouldn't work just as well on a 41/2 X 9
other than Diamond is trying to push the big 5 x 10 table.
This nonsense about a 41/2 x 9 table being a push over is
just that, nonsense. If they were so easy Accu-stats would have
plenty of matches that have 5 or 6 racks run. The truth is out of the
thousands of matches they have there just aren't that many with
5 or 6 packs, that's the bottom line.
I don't even buy the tournament match DVD's of 5 x 10 matches,
and I have hundreds of match DVD's I've purchased.
.
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Best playing surface there is to fully test a players skills, so it's the best gateway for everyone to have to pass through first. Don't care what table is played on in the tournaments, 9ft's are fine by me. But the Diamond 5'x10' ProAm is the absolute best test table on the market today, because it's no push over.
Testing to be a pro
The testing concept that RKC is promoting is not a new idea.
Japan has a program the rates the players. It is based on equal offense or a similar game.
But the interesting thing is that if you qualify as a pro - you cannot play in amateur events. And amateurs cannot play in pro events.
It has merit .
Mark griffin
The testing concept that RKC is promoting is not a new idea.
Japan has a program the rates the players. It is based on equal offense or a similar game.
But the interesting thing is that if you qualify as a pro - you cannot play in amateur events. And amateurs cannot play in pro events.
It has merit .
Mark griffin
In MY world, the rules to 10 ball need to be changed to the following:
Single elimination.
Race to 21, with a 3 hour time limit per match...can only be extended for breaking a tie.
If a shot clock is used, penalty for running out the clock is a win awarded to the waiting player...and same player is still shooting on a new time limit.
3 fouls in a row by a single player is an automatic win to the opposing player.
Besides a push out after the break, each player has one lifeline/push out during a game, and can decide when to use it, or not use it. After that it reverts back to BIH.
Winner breaks.
Any time a 10 ball is made on the break, it counts as a win, but is spotted back up and the game continues on. What this does is prevents a player from winning the match on the break when both players are on the hill. For example, if both players are on 20 games each, player A makes the 10 on the break, score reads A21-B20...but, with the 10 ball spotted back up, if player A is going to take advantage of the 10 ball made on the break, player A must finish out the remaining rack, failer to do so lets player B back to the table. IF player B clears the table including the 10 ball, player B is also awarded a win during that game and therefore the score would be at 21-21 each, and another game would have to be played to break the tie.
At any time during a race to 21, if a player gains a 10 game lead over the opposing player, it will be considered to be a knockout and the match will be ended by reason of being lopsided.
If at any time a player runs a 10 pack or more to take an early win over the opposing player, once that player has missed, the opposing player will have ONE chance to at mimimum TIE or best the other players run, failier to do so will result in a loss of the match by knockout.
All balls must be racked in one pattern, which is set by the rules of the tournament play.
With these rules, matches would run 3 hours max, 30 minute break, then start again. A 64 player event would be finished with the determined winner in 20 1/2 hours of play and breaks.
Glen
Single elimination.
Race to 21, with a 3 hour time limit per match...can only be extended for breaking a tie.
If a shot clock is used, penalty for running out the clock is a win awarded to the waiting player...and same player is still shooting on a new time limit.
3 fouls in a row by a single player is an automatic win to the opposing player.
Besides a push out after the break, each player has one lifeline/push out during a game, and can decide when to use it, or not use it. After that it reverts back to BIH.
Winner breaks.
Any time a 10 ball is made on the break, it counts as a win, but is spotted back up and the game continues on. What this does is prevents a player from winning the match on the break when both players are on the hill. For example, if both players are on 20 games each, player A makes the 10 on the break, score reads A21-B20...but, with the 10 ball spotted back up, if player A is going to take advantage of the 10 ball made on the break, player A must finish out the remaining rack, failer to do so lets player B back to the table. IF player B clears the table including the 10 ball, player B is also awarded a win during that game and therefore the score would be at 21-21 each, and another game would have to be played to break the tie.
At any time during a race to 21, if a player gains a 10 game lead over the opposing player, it will be considered to be a knockout and the match will be ended by reason of being lopsided.
If at any time a player runs a 10 pack or more to take an early win over the opposing player, once that player has missed, the opposing player will have ONE chance to at mimimum TIE or best the other players run, failier to do so will result in a loss of the match by knockout.
All balls must be racked in one pattern, which is set by the rules of the tournament play.
With these rules, matches would run 3 hours max, 30 minute break, then start again. A 64 player event would be finished with the determined winner in 20 1/2 hours of play and breaks.
Glen
It has merit as it separates the pro and the amateur players, yes.
It could also stop players from playing above their level at all levels.
Just not the other way around.
Testing should be done on a 41/2 x 9 though, not a 5 x 10.
People like to say a 41/2 x 9 is to easy however:
This nonsense about a 41/2 x 9 table being a push over is
just that, nonsense. If they were so easy Accu-stats would have
plenty of matches that have 5 or 6 racks run. The truth is out of the
thousands of matches they have there just aren't that many with
5 or 6 packs, that's the bottom line.
It could also stop players from playing above their level at all levels.
Just not the other way around.
Testing should be done on a 41/2 x 9 though, not a 5 x 10.
People like to say a 41/2 x 9 is to easy however:
This nonsense about a 41/2 x 9 table being a push over is
just that, nonsense. If they were so easy Accu-stats would have
plenty of matches that have 5 or 6 racks run. The truth is out of the
thousands of matches they have there just aren't that many with
5 or 6 packs, that's the bottom line.
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If the test is on a 5'x10'...first of all, it's going to effect all players the same overall. Second, there are no bad or screwed up 5'x10' Diamond ProAm's on the market today. Third, if any player can't make the cut with the score they recieved, then either they don't belong...or they need to practice on that table and retest if they really feel like they should be playing with the Pro's...and I guarantee you, no matter who tests, there WILL be 64 players that test with the highest scores on the list....now, who them 64 players are....who knows. This is only a test for rotation games being played, not 8b, 1p, 14.1, banks or any other game.
We just don't agree on this.
I still think the table they should test on is
4/12 x 9 as that's the table everyone plays on.
Like I have stated if 41/2 x 9 tables are so easy
then why aren't there more 5 and 6 packs run out
of all the match DVD's Accu-stats has from over
the years. Simple answer is they aren't that easy,
That's the proof, it's hard to spin it.
I still think the table they should test on is
4/12 x 9 as that's the table everyone plays on.
Like I have stated if 41/2 x 9 tables are so easy
then why aren't there more 5 and 6 packs run out
of all the match DVD's Accu-stats has from over
the years. Simple answer is they aren't that easy,
That's the proof, it's hard to spin it.
Glen...
Glen, there's no reason that this test couldn't be used for eight ball at least and possibly even one hole and 14.1.
It is just a general cue skills test.
Yes, there is a possibility that better players will score lower to maintain an ability to play in amateur events, but then they eliminate their ability to play in the pro events, and it's easy to get around that by doing a couple of other things.
Seed based on skill test rankings and have a rule that any two or three top three finishes in a lower event forces you into the next tier.
You will have people playing their best in the cue test in no time...
Jaden
Glen, there's no reason that this test couldn't be used for eight ball at least and possibly even one hole and 14.1.
It is just a general cue skills test.
Yes, there is a possibility that better players will score lower to maintain an ability to play in amateur events, but then they eliminate their ability to play in the pro events, and it's easy to get around that by doing a couple of other things.
Seed based on skill test rankings and have a rule that any two or three top three finishes in a lower event forces you into the next tier.
You will have people playing their best in the cue test in no time...
Jaden
More money, of course, is ideal
Time will tell, as they say!
I certainly do not see more money lol... Mika won 40K for winning the US Open.
The issue certainly is not the player field, actually it is like chopping off part of your arm and maybe both legs too. To think, many of the paying clientele and fans may have been there to support a lessor known player etc... That is revenue no?
But does that mean that if you finish in the top three, two or three times in an event
just one level under the pro level you get bumped up to pro level.
Even if you didn't test out at pro level in the test?
I've seen press releases for 30 years. Often they don't live up to their promises. We'll see if this one does. Sorry if taking the "cold look" side doesn't appeal to you, but BB's history says it all.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Nope! This past weekend, I was at the Nick Varner Amateur Classic in Denver, Colorado.
JoeyA
Oh I know talk is just talk until you actually do what you say. I've been around Barry since I was a teenager, I'm pretty familiar with his history having been around to see a lot of what happened. I still believe in him though & think he's going to do exactly what he says he's going to, I realize I'm in the minority but I'll always stand up for him.
We spoke on the phone, now you have a much better idea where I'm going with this, and as you'll now agree....no one is going to be sandbagging their scores...HEHE
But, on what you asked about using this skill test for other games of pool on a Pro level, I have other tests for the other games that test more along what that game requires to play it, for example 1P Same 5'x10' table, 20 racks, break 15 balls, start with BIH...see how many balls a player can pocket in ONE corner pocket of choice...before the break, only one miss per rack. Total up the number of balls made and you have a test score to rate a player by to play in a Pro only event.
Glen
Nope, could just be that the players you're beating can't win, so of course the player that can will keep on winning...that's just a small block, when it's a big world out here:thumbup:
There's not even one 5 X 10 Diamond in every state, so to say the testing should be done on these, when there is no availability just doesn't make sense.
As there are diamond 41/2 x 9 tables readily available and that's what most of the tournaments are played on anyway. It makes sense to test on these tables.
Not to mention as I said rooms aren't putting 5 x10 tables in, in fact here's what happened in a room that put a new Diamond 5 x 10 table in:
Things haven't changed the new 5 x 10 at Sand Castle Billiards
was taken out because nobody wanted to play on the table and they
could put a regular size table in it's place so they could make money.
As there are diamond 41/2 x 9 tables readily available and that's what most of the tournaments are played on anyway. It makes sense to test on these tables.
Not to mention as I said rooms aren't putting 5 x10 tables in, in fact here's what happened in a room that put a new Diamond 5 x 10 table in:
Things haven't changed the new 5 x 10 at Sand Castle Billiards
was taken out because nobody wanted to play on the table and they
could put a regular size table in it's place so they could make money.
Sand Castle don't sell booze or food either, and really don't have much business, so that's not really a place I'd put a 5'x10' anyway, there's plenty of better locations available. Why a 5'x10' ?...the greater the challenge, the greater the reward...being more accurate test scores that are believeable, 9ft's vary way to much depending on who built them, and who services them...from great to BAD, and even worse:wink:
How many are around, you think people will travel to find a 5 X 10 to take this test, lol
Good luck getting a lot of test takers, and this test idea only holds up and money is
only generated if lots of people take the test.
This approach using a 5 x 10 isn't a good start, with that.
Only a way to push trying to sell Diamond 5 x 10, sorry.
41/2 x 9 is the way to go here, it's clear.
As they are available and that is what everyone plays on anyway.
Good luck getting a lot of test takers, and this test idea only holds up and money is
only generated if lots of people take the test.
This approach using a 5 x 10 isn't a good start, with that.
Only a way to push trying to sell Diamond 5 x 10, sorry.
41/2 x 9 is the way to go here, it's clear.
As they are available and that is what everyone plays on anyway.
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