4.5" pockets on a table

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Outre Bron

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Hello Friends,

Does it generally cost MORE to have 4.5 pockets on a table that's getting new rubber? Or is there something Im not considering here?
 
Outre Bron said:
Hello Friends,

Does it generally cost MORE to have 4.5 pockets on a table that's getting new rubber? Or is there something Im not considering here?
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Well it's a specially ordered item and requires more labor so I would imagine it could cost more but I'm far from an expert on this subject.
 
What size are they now? If they are 5 inch and to do it right it could cost a little more. Just need more info.
 
Outre Bron said:
Its a Bwick 9'. So whatever is standard in those. I realy dont have the size.
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You basically have two choices. The worst is to have the pockets shimmed and that is cheap, but it will not play the way you want it to play. Pockets will rattle shots and spit them out.

The best is to have a mechanic cut pockets using new gum rubber. It will cost whatever it costs for decent rubber and labor, maybe $400 (just a guess) but the table will play like a dream, better than new.
 
Gentlemen, thank you for enlightening me on this subject. I finished watching a tournament where a Diamond table was used. The pockets were 4.5" and to me it seemed like the rubber on the rail simply extended a bit more into the pocket. I never imagined this would be labor or cost intensive. Seems like anything to do with a pool table is high cost.
 
Outre Bron said:
Gentlemen, thank you for enlightening me on this subject. I finished watching a tournament where a Diamond table was used. The pockets were 4.5" and to me it seemed like the rubber on the rail simply extended a bit more into the pocket. I never imagined this would be labor or cost intensive. Seems like anything to do with a pool table is high cost.
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The key is to make sure that the mechanic who's doing the work understands that you want the rails extended not just shimmed. Having installed tables for years I can tell you that 90% of the people who requested tighter pockets ended up with shimmed pockets.

Shimming saves hours in labor. We're talking all of 5 or so minutes to shim up a pocket but extending the rails correctly takes hours.

So you want to be clear on process because like mentioned above an experienced player can tell the difference.

What's worse is if they double or triple shim. At that point we're talking about major inconsistencies in how the ball reacts when it hits the shimmed areas.

I would certainly expect to pay extra for the job to be done correctly.
 
Outre Bron said:
Gentlemen, thank you for enlightening me on this subject. I finished watching a tournament where a Diamond table was used. The pockets were 4.5" and to me it seemed like the rubber on the rail simply extended a bit more into the pocket. I never imagined this would be labor or cost intensive. Seems like anything to do with a pool table is high cost.
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You have to look at it as a long term thing. Believe me, it's worth it. That is the single best move I ever made on my table. What's $400 for 15 or 20 years of pool playing pleasure? It's not just the pockets - it's the way the table plays. how the cushions respond and rebound. It's like comparing the driving experience of a BMW to a Kia.
 
Im spending more on the move and recushioning than the table as it is. And im getting the basic champions cloth and rubber. Im dedicated and in love with the game but I simply can't make dough magically appear. As time goes I'm going to learn how to do these repairs/upgrades and go all out Simonis, k66 etc. Thank you all again for your wisdom.
 
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Outre Bron said:
Im spending more on the move and recushioning than the table as it is. And im getting the basic champions cloth and rubber. Im dedicated and in love with the game but I simply can't make dough magically appear. As time goes I'm going to learn how to do these repairs/upgrades and go all out Simonis, k66 etc. Thank you all again for your wisdom.
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Meh...no matter how much you tweak a Chevette, it will never be a corvette.

I am of the thought that it is better to save your doll-hairs and get a good table when circumstances permit. Hell...having a table at home is huge, in terms of development. Enjoy.
 
Outre Bron said:
Gentlemen, thank you for enlightening me on this subject. I finished watching a tournament where a Diamond table was used. The pockets were 4.5" and to me it seemed like the rubber on the rail simply extended a bit more into the pocket. I never imagined this would be labor or cost intensive. Seems like anything to do with a pool table is high cost.
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Save your money, and just buy another cue, no one really cares about a pool table anyway;) afterall, it's just a pool table, right?:rolleyes:
 
realkingcobra said:
Save your money, and just buy another cue, no one really cares about a pool table anyway;) afterall, it's just a pool table, right?:rolleyes:
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Oh my gosh, welcome back Glen - I didn't know you were back.
 
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realkingcobra said:
Save your money, and just buy another cue, no one really cares about a pool table anyway;) afterall, it's just a pool table, right?:rolleyes:
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For the new members here, Glen (Realkingcobra) is one of the premier pool table mechanics in the country.
 
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I haven't decided yet if I'm going to post the pictures yet on AZB about all the GC's I'm rebuilding and refinishing from the leg levelers all the way to the rails and every thing in between, including steel plate joining the slates together, installing the Diamond leveling system, powder coating the pocket castings and feet. Sanding down all the wood parts, repairing all the damaged wood, to coats of primer, 4 coats of semi gloss black finish, rebuilt rails, Artemis K55 cushions, 4 1/2" corner pockets, 5" side pockets, new GC4 drop pockets, and Simonis 860 tour blue cloth.
 
realkingcobra said:
I haven't decided yet if I'm going to post the pictures yet on AZB about all the GC's I'm rebuilding and refinishing from the leg levelers all the way to the rails and every thing in between, including steel plate joining the slates together, installing the Diamond leveling system, powder coating the pocket castings and feet. Sanding down all the wood parts, repairing all the damaged wood, to coats of primer, 4 coats of semi gloss black finish, rebuilt rails, Artemis K55 cushions, 4 1/2" corner pockets, 5" side pockets, new GC4 drop pockets, and Simonis 860 tour blue cloth.
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sounds like a work of art in the process
 
It seems as if the consensus on this site has become -- not to shim tables. That sounds great but it's a little misleading I think. Isn't the real problem -- double and triple shimming tables?

So if the original poster has a table with 5 inch pockets and he wants to make them 4.5 inches I think he could get away with 1/4 inch shims and be pretty happy with how the table plays.

I was under the impression that the standard method for doing the pockets on Diamond tables was to put in 3/16 inch facings. If that is indeed the case, are some of you telling the OP'er to have his rails extended in order to avoid 1/16 of an inch of facing material?

Anybody that loves pool, loves playing on a perfect table. However, many of us can still enjoy playing pool on something less than perfect, especially when you are dealing with limited funds.
 
BasementDweller said:
It seems as if the consensus on this site has become -- not to shim tables. That sounds great but it's a little misleading I think. Isn't the real problem -- double and triple shimming tables?

So if the original poster has a table with 5 inch pockets and he wants to make them 4.5 inches I think he could get away with 1/4 inch shims and be pretty happy with how the table plays.

I was under the impression that the standard method for doing the pockets on Diamond tables was to put in 3/16 inch facings. If that is indeed the case, are some of you telling the OP'er to have his rails extended in order to avoid 1/16 of an inch of facing material?

Anybody that loves pool, loves playing on a perfect table. However, many of us can still enjoy playing pool on something less than perfect, especially when you are dealing with limited funds.
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Diamond builds their sub-rails longer so that they only need a single facing to cap the end of the rails in the pockets. 3/16ths neoprene 60 durometer facings are used because they hold up much better, and protect the cloth from being cut through with continued ball pocketing. 5" pockets are made by turning out the miter angles room 143 degrees or
more, and just simply adding facing to extend the rails in order to tighten the pockets makes them play even worse without cutting back on the pocket miters to less of an angle, not to mention the stock pocket miter angles on a Brunswick for the most part AR not the same on both sides of the corner pockets, so stacking facings up just adds to the incorrectly built pocket angles, but people that think working on pool tables isn't rocket science, can do what ever they want, who cares if pool tables play right or not, afterall, their not looked at like pool cues, tips, chalk, cloth....where everything has improved in this industry, except the value of a good playing pool table, where cheap is always going to be the best value for the money!
 
I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want a table with 4.5" pockets.

Tighter pockets will not make you a better pool player. If I play golf with professional grade equipment (tour blades for those in the know) it will not make me better at golf but it will sure as heck make the game tougher and less enjoyable.

I guess if a person plays top level pool and wants the added challenge of a smaller target I can understand it,,,, , but seriously, how many people play at that speed?

For the general masses, I say to heck with a more challenging table,, this game is tough enough with 5 inch pockets,, why make it more difficult?
 
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